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 BertBert wrote:
The most interesting recent lore bit for me was the elaboration on Kroot society in the Blackstone Fortress novel.

I liked that too, any little new tidbits about kroot are welcome to me.

The Vespid mention in that book as well. Their lament of their empty halls after the arrival of the Ethereals.

Has it been more than five years since the Ynnari were introduced? If not, I'll go with that. There's a lot about Fall of Biel-Tan that could have been better, but the general gimmick of the Ynnari is something I'd kind of been leaning towards already. I even had a wych cult fluffed as keeping their souls from Slaanesh by absorbing each others' souls upon death and intentionally hunting down mortal servants of Slaanesh to weaken her.

If that's too old, then maybe the tidbit about the new sororitas exosuits having machine spirits that accept new wearers by "knighting" a sister as she kneels praying before it.

I really enjoyed the Fabius bile trilogy although I’m not sure how recent they are.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
The existence of Space Wolves successors. Now, lemme qualify that. I'm not fine with the execution, where every Son of Russ seemingly hews to Fenrisian culture and organizational doctrine.

except they actually DON'T. the wolf spears are fascinating because they're so distinct.

Tell me you don't know what the Kin-Pack Declaration is without telling me.

The rationale was really just to let people use the Space Wolves codex but now with any color scheme or iconography they wish. I see it as kinda like a reverse codex-compliance. All the SW Successors might have a pack organization structure, but they might call them something different or place greater emphasis on one role or another. We know at least one SW successor refused to apply Rune Priest traditions. Whether that means they have regular librarians instead, no psykers, or something else entirely is unknown.

 Gert wrote:
I liked that some of the first wave of Primaris were Astartes from just after the Heresy who had witnessed and known their Primarch fathers (well, most of them anyway). Guilliman is all well and good but having the perspective of Marines who witnessed the immediate aftermath of the Heresy who are then thrown into the "future" and forced to adjust is a good story hook IMO.

Where is this lore from? This actually makes me like Primaris slightly better.

It was in the 8th Ed SM Codex which I don't have anymore.
During the Indomitus Crusade, Rynn's World was besieged (again) by Daemons and Guilliman personally joins forces to relieve it. Included are both Imperial Fists Greyshields and Primaris Crimson Fists.
When the fighting stops and the forces greet each other, some of the Primaris are revealed to have been recruits in the last days of the Legions and witnessed Rogal Dorn before being placed in stasis.
It's not really focused on more than that but it's certainly a concept I'd like to see explored a bit more.

I like the Imperium Nihilus. Bear with me a minute, as this next paragraph will seem off topic.

My favourite season of Angel is the fourth. The Doomsday Beast blots out the sun, turning Los Angels into "a vampire-demon free-for-all, all the time". Angel has lost his soul and humanity's champion has ironically become the most dangerous monster of all. The Doomsday Beast's unseen master lurks out of sight, her plan inexorably drawing tighter around Team Angel (who are about to permanently lose a member).

An exhausted, battered and almost entirely demoralised Team Angel must work together with the only survivor of Wolfram and Hart (formerly their worst enemy) to try to survive the next few days, let alone do anything about the looming apocalypse. This is the closest Angel's gang ever comes to total defeat while still managing to survive.

The Imperium Nihilus really runs with this theme. It's the new Age of Strife. Worlds are cut off and must face the circling wolves alone. Walls are crumbling, defences are overrun, populations live in fear, and the Imperium launches a great crusade which still isn't really enough to change things.

You can see that by this point, the Horus Heresy is totally dominating 40K. IMO the HH has been a much better series and breathed new life into the 40K universe, to the point where GW are now desperately trying to make 40K the new Heresy. (The downside is, they are now retconning the Imperium to work with aliens and rely extensively on alien technology, and to modernise its warrior core and their wargear - innovation and forward thinking in the Imperium? What?)

Whether or not this is a good thing depends on the reader, but you can't deny it's been fething amazing.

 godardc wrote:
Recently ? Nothing because nothing has been good since 5th edition. Or the FW black books stuff but that's not directly GW so...

Interesting take considering 5th has some of the worst lore GW has ever created.

I like the idea of Genestealer Cult on Terra. This is very rare for me to like anything concerning the recent lore since 7th edition.

willhman wrote:
Recent as in this addition has been added to the general lore in the last 5 years. Doesn't have to been brand new lore, can just be updates that GW has on older lore.

Personally I have loved the War zone: Octarius. I am a Ork player and I adored almost everything that has been added to this conflict. Octarius has been on of these bits of lore that always caught my attention. A war of attrition between two armies that have limitless resources and feed off of each other. The fact that there are no name characters that truly matter just makes the entire thing
FUN.

There are somethings I wish were different. Wish we got to see more of the Ork vs Nids violence on ork held worlds. It was interesting to see how different the environments were for each named ork world. Also wish that the Octarius system did not fall. Would have prefer to seen the conflicts continued escalation between the 2 races that had grown past the originally borders, would have been interesting.

All in all I can understand why they 'ended' it the way they did. GW has hinted that the Octarian orks might be able to reach out to the Charadon empire and have a massive merging of the two empires into one. This might be able to bring a halt to the nid rampage that is currently happening. Another option is that good ole Ghazzy might redirect WAAAGH!!!s to help reinforce the 6 potential tyrants.

Wait, they are wrapping this up? Why? The idea of an endless massive ork vs nid conflict that just goes on forever is probably the best idea they came up with since Gorkamorka. This is literally the one war where it makes no sense to ever have any resolution. Well actually, I could think of one appropriate ending...

Massive warp rift...then it becomes an epic three way with chaos, ork and Nid. Hmmm, maybe that crazy inquisitor guy should embrace one of the radical inquisitor factions.

 Dekskull wrote:

willhman wrote:
Recent as in this addition has been added to the general lore in the last 5 years. Doesn't have to been brand new lore, can just be updates that GW has on older lore.

Personally I have loved the War zone: Octarius. I am a Ork player and I adored almost everything that has been added to this conflict. Octarius has been on of these bits of lore that always caught my attention. A war of attrition between two armies that have limitless resources and feed off of each other. The fact that there are no name characters that truly matter just makes the entire thing
FUN.

There are somethings I wish were different. Wish we got to see more of the Ork vs Nids violence on ork held worlds. It was interesting to see how different the environments were for each named ork world. Also wish that the Octarius system did not fall. Would have prefer to seen the conflicts continued escalation between the 2 races that had grown past the originally borders, would have been interesting.

All in all I can understand why they 'ended' it the way they did. GW has hinted that the Octarian orks might be able to reach out to the Charadon empire and have a massive merging of the two empires into one. This might be able to bring a halt to the nid rampage that is currently happening. Another option is that good ole Ghazzy might redirect WAAAGH!!!s to help reinforce the 6 potential tyrants.

Wait, they are wrapping this up? Why? The idea of an endless massive ork vs nid conflict that just goes on forever is probably the best idea they came up with since Gorkamorka. This is literally the one war where it makes no sense to ever have any resolution. Well actually, I could think of one appropriate ending...

Massive warp rift...then it becomes an epic three way with chaos, ork and Nid. Hmmm, maybe that crazy inquisitor guy should embrace one of the radical inquisitor factions.

I actually disliked the addition of the Blood Crusade to the Octarius Warzone, since it originally sounded like it would become a major part of that war. It is the same reason I currently dislike the “Half-Daemon-World-Armageddon” thing (even though that one is way more justified with it being tied to the World Eaters).

As for what happened during the octarius war…

 Segersgia wrote:

 Dekskull wrote:

willhman wrote:
Recent as in this addition has been added to the general lore in the last 5 years. Doesn't have to been brand new lore, can just be updates that GW has on older lore.

Personally I have loved the War zone: Octarius. I am a Ork player and I adored almost everything that has been added to this conflict. Octarius has been on of these bits of lore that always caught my attention. A war of attrition between two armies that have limitless resources and feed off of each other. The fact that there are no name characters that truly matter just makes the entire thing
FUN.

There are somethings I wish were different. Wish we got to see more of the Ork vs Nids violence on ork held worlds. It was interesting to see how different the environments were for each named ork world. Also wish that the Octarius system did not fall. Would have prefer to seen the conflicts continued escalation between the 2 races that had grown past the originally borders, would have been interesting.

All in all I can understand why they 'ended' it the way they did. GW has hinted that the Octarian orks might be able to reach out to the Charadon empire and have a massive merging of the two empires into one. This might be able to bring a halt to the nid rampage that is currently happening. Another option is that good ole Ghazzy might redirect WAAAGH!!!s to help reinforce the 6 potential tyrants.

Wait, they are wrapping this up? Why? The idea of an endless massive ork vs nid conflict that just goes on forever is probably the best idea they came up with since Gorkamorka. This is literally the one war where it makes no sense to ever have any resolution. Well actually, I could think of one appropriate ending...

Massive warp rift...then it becomes an epic three way with chaos, ork and Nid. Hmmm, maybe that crazy inquisitor guy should embrace one of the radical inquisitor factions.

I actually disliked the addition of the Blood Crusade to the Octarius Warzone, since it originally sounded like it would become a major part of that war. It is the same reason I currently dislike the “Half-Daemon-World-Armageddon” thing (even though that one is way more justified with it being tied to the World Eaters).

As for what happened during the octarius war…

Spoiler:

Tyranids win the war. The Swarmlord beats the current Overfiend and devours Octaria.

Even as an Ork fan, that outcome was very satisfying.

Overall I agree. Octarius was a very fun Warsector. The defeat of the Overfiend reminded me of Skarfangs defeat in the original Octarius war fluff which I don't really like. I wanted a different story but as it goes it was good.

Though it should be clear that the fighting is far from over. Though Octarius has fallen there have been 6 other orks who are claiming the Overfiend title. If they can all match his ferocity then it means that the orks might potentially match the numbers of the nids in the future. Another way for the orks to stabilize is if the Ork empire of Charadon decides to join in. This is an yet untapped Ork empire, the largest current empire. If a WAAAGH!!! was launched to join the war effort then we could see the nids on a back foot, a role reversal kind of scenario.

As it stands GW is wanting to make these warzones more 'inclusive' in the sense that they want more factions in each warzone so that they can sell minis. For other Warzones I like this but when it comes to Octarius the conflict should stick to the two hordes bashing in each others heads. If it stays as Orks vs nids then I don't have to worry about named characters doing what they do. It also adds to the suspense of it all because we don't really know who will win.

As weird as it sounds, 4th sphere expansion for Tau. I like how it plays with the tau's hellbent focus on expansion to the detriment of the empire while not fully understanding just what theyre up against. Then when they finally figure out how to enter the warp, it goes full event horizon

Actual real spoilers if you havent read war of secrets



It really makes the tau question what theyre willing to do for the greater good, and if the ethereals know as much as they think they do. I also like how it adds in some room for the Tau to feel like theyre working for a better tomorrow but have doubts as well.

Cheers MrMoustaffa, I've just grabbed War of Secrets, I've been after novels digging into the Tau more.

Anyone got any other recommendations for tau books?

everything produced for Necromunda has been excellent so far, the expanding of the lore there has just been great to read and so evocative of the setting I am really impressed even if they do tend to borrow from other places at times

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
As weird as it sounds, 4th sphere expansion for Tau. I like how it plays with the tau's hellbent focus on expansion to the detriment of the empire while not fully understanding just what theyre up against. Then when they finally figure out how to enter the warp, it goes full event horizon

Actual real spoilers if you havent read war of secrets

Spoiler:

Spoiler alert, inducting the humans into the greater good leads to them worshipping the idea of a greater good and it goes how you expect. 4th sphere tau survivors figure out what happened and start a purge of their auxiliaries because of it

It really makes the tau question what theyre willing to do for the greater good, and if the ethereals know as much as they think they do. I also like how it adds in some room for the Tau to feel like theyre working for a better tomorrow but have doubts as well.

This bit of lore doesn't make sense to me, specifically the :

part, because isn't that not how the Warp functions? It's emotions and feelings that reflect in the warp, not what is "believed" in itself then manifesting - what they actually believe it quite irrelevant, it's the emotions tied to that belief that has an effect, yet this seems to be something that only works of its the former version where their "beliefs" are the important part.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Spoiler:

They created a god of the greater good

part, because isn't that not how the Warp functions? It's emotions and feelings that reflect in the warp, not what is "believed" in itself then manifesting.

That's probably just a matter of semantics. If you're believing in the concept of the greater good to the extent that it governs every facet of your society and being, this may very well have a specific set of feelings and emotions associated with it. Then there is also the matter of ethereals and their way of enforcing compliance among the "lesser" tau, which could be a different rabbit hole altogether with lots of opportunity to provoke a reaction in the warp. That being said, I didn't like the way this particular fluff piece just dropped the greater good warp entity without any follow-up or contextualisation.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:


This bit of lore doesn't make sense to me, specifically the :

Spoiler:

They created a god of the greater good

part, because isn't that not how the Warp functions? It's emotions and feelings that reflect in the warp, not what is "believed" in itself then manifesting - what they actually believe it quite irrelevant, it's the emotions tied to that belief that has an effect, yet this seems to be something that only works of its the former version where their "beliefs" are the important part.

What if the Tau'va provides immense feelings of safety, protection, and cooperation? If you've taken a bunch of people from an empire that doesn't even care if they live or die and bring them into one that values and repsects them, those feelings could very easily manifest as a Warp Entity.

forgot to say the new Necrons novels too, they are excellent, the Infinite and the Divine was really fun to read and the Twice Dead King was a refreshing look at 40k through the eyes of another species

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
As weird as it sounds, 4th sphere expansion for Tau. I like how it plays with the tau's hellbent focus on expansion to the detriment of the empire while not fully understanding just what theyre up against. Then when they finally figure out how to enter the warp, it goes full event horizon

Actual real spoilers if you havent read war of secrets

Spoiler:

Spoiler alert, inducting the humans into the greater good leads to them worshipping the idea of a greater good and it goes how you expect. 4th sphere tau survivors figure out what happened and start a purge of their auxiliaries because of it

It really makes the tau question what theyre willing to do for the greater good, and if the ethereals know as much as they think they do. I also like how it adds in some room for the Tau to feel like theyre working for a better tomorrow but have doubts as well.

This bit of lore doesn't make sense to me, specifically the :

Spoiler:

They created a god of the greater good

part, because isn't that not how the Warp functions? It's emotions and feelings that reflect in the warp, not what is "believed" in itself then manifesting - what they actually believe it quite irrelevant, it's the emotions tied to that belief that has an effect, yet this seems to be something that only works of its the former version where their "beliefs" are the important part.

Its hard for me to really describe it, but if you read the book it describes it a lot better than I can. Only thing I dont like about it is it sounds like

Warhammer Crime.

All of it, seeing the setting from the bottom up in a single (albeit MASSIVE) city is great.

It has some great stories, characters and the setting is great, I'd love them to do a WHQ or something with the setting.... Even a version of Cluedo.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Its hard for me to really describe it, but if you read the book it describes it a lot better than I can. Only thing I dont like about it is it sounds like

Spoiler:

gw doesnt want to have to release models for all the little vassal alien empires the tau have and this is their lore get out of jail free card.

in response

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I really like the Primaris background.

It’s introduction was definitely a bit ham fisted, but for lore speculation it’s a rich resource (for instance, Cawl’s achievements shine a light on what the industrial capacity of the Imperium would be if, like Cawl experienced) the fruits of your labours weren’t immediately dispatched to a war zone.

A careful husbanding and reserving of your end product. Comparatively rare resources gathered over time (and we’re talking centuries if not millennia of production), ready to be unleashed en masse.

To me it made as much sense as Palpatine having a bunch of star destroyers that the empire didn't even know about

That was my experience too. Ive enjoyed some of the primaris stuff since then, cawl has some interesting moments, and guillemans pov on the imperium is fun to read, but overall the primaris were handled terribly. Not only does it make 0 sense, which in 40k is saying something, it just outright contradicts and gaks on a ton of established lore. I just have a hard time believing that right after the heresy anyone would sign off on a project that pulls tens of thousands of marine recruits out of use along with the geneseed, techpriests, and materials needed to outfit them, right when the Imperium is desperately trying to stabilize and rebuild.

Plus the blatant cashgrab of GW wanting to get rid of old marines and replace them with primaris, so the most popular product range has to be bought again by most of the playerbase. Its so blatant that even the characters in black library novels talk about how the primaris are meant to replace the original model. That left a bitter taste in my mouth. I wish theyd just updated the old marine kits that needed it like scouts and terminators then called it a day. At least lore in many of the books is finally calling out all the issues that trying to introduce primaris to chapters like the Dark Angels and Flesh Tearers would cause.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
That was my experience too. Ive enjoyed some of the primaris stuff since then, cawl has some interesting moments, and guillemans pov on the imperium is fun to read, but overall the primaris were handled terribly. Not only does it make 0 sense, which in 40k is saying something, it just outright contradicts and gaks on a ton of established lore. I just have a hard time believing that right after the heresy anyone would sign off on a project that pulls tens of thousands of marine recruits out of use along with the geneseed, techpriests, and materials needed to outfit them, right when the Imperium is desperately trying to stabilize and rebuild.

Plus the blatant cashgrab of GW wanting to get rid of old marines and replace them with primaris, so the most popular product range has to be bought again by most of the playerbase. Its so blatant that even the characters in black library novels talk about how the primaris are meant to replace the original model. That left a bitter taste in my mouth. I wish theyd just updated the old marine kits that needed it like scouts and terminators then called it a day. At least lore in many of the books is finally calling out all the issues that trying to introduce primaris to chapters like the Dark Angels and Flesh Tearers would cause.

It was GW trying to refresh a very tired old brand with crap models without invalidating huge collections players already had a alienating masses of players. A business decision, nothing that should leave a bitter taste. It wasn’t a betrayal, it no more “gakked” on lore than every new marine unit or tank for many editions, no more than the HH series of books did, no more than all the forge world marine stuff did. It was certainly no worse than inventing tau to try and cash in on the Japanese market for example. It wasn’t personal, but it made as much sense as centurions suddenly being a thing, or there suddenly being a new rhino or landraider variant every new edition. But it did breathe life into a stagnant line and there would have been as much complaints if they had replaced old kits with better scaled models.

Andykp wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
That was my experience too. Ive enjoyed some of the primaris stuff since then, cawl has some interesting moments, and guillemans pov on the imperium is fun to read, but overall the primaris were handled terribly. Not only does it make 0 sense, which in 40k is saying something, it just outright contradicts and gaks on a ton of established lore. I just have a hard time believing that right after the heresy anyone would sign off on a project that pulls tens of thousands of marine recruits out of use along with the geneseed, techpriests, and materials needed to outfit them, right when the Imperium is desperately trying to stabilize and rebuild.

Plus the blatant cashgrab of GW wanting to get rid of old marines and replace them with primaris, so the most popular product range has to be bought again by most of the playerbase. Its so blatant that even the characters in black library novels talk about how the primaris are meant to replace the original model. That left a bitter taste in my mouth. I wish theyd just updated the old marine kits that needed it like scouts and terminators then called it a day. At least lore in many of the books is finally calling out all the issues that trying to introduce primaris to chapters like the Dark Angels and Flesh Tearers would cause.

It was GW trying to refresh a very tired old brand with crap models without invalidating huge collections players already had a alienating masses of players. A business decision, nothing that should leave a bitter taste. It wasn’t a betrayal, it no more “gakked” on lore than every new marine unit or tank for many editions, no more than the HH series of books did, no more than all the forge world marine stuff did. It was certainly no worse than inventing tau to try and cash in on the Japanese market for example. It wasn’t personal, but it made as much sense as centurions suddenly being a thing, or there suddenly being a new rhino or landraider variant every new edition. But it did breathe life into a stagnant line and there would have been as much complaints if they had replaced old kits with better scaled models.

I feel it simply could have been done better lore wise. If they had tried to explain it that this had been started during/just post HH and on the verge of being ready to start, but when Guilleman went down, Crawl had no way to start without Primarch orders. If a few hundred TOTAL primaris marines had appeared with Crawl and showed there effectiveness to demonstrate to the Chapters instead of just showing up in the thousands I think it could have felt like less replacement then succession. More of "here is the next step" and released all the new units over 1-2 more codex's lore then just "you have to replace everything" that many players complain about (not debating if it true or not, but it's a vocal opinion out there)

That’s the thing, players moan about it, but it’s in no way true. Even taking primaris out, marines still have one of the biggest ranges available in plastic. No one has been forced to replace anything. There was going to be push back how ever they did it. At the end of the day they needed to rehash the marine line, and they have done it without invalidating the old line at all. People call it a cash grab but by keeping the old models valid it’s actually “considerate” for want of a better word.

I do think they way they did it opened up a lot of narrative options about how these marines are accepted and feel at odds with their chapters and things. Creating some good story lines around that. I have enjoyed writing a back ground for my custom chapter, which all primaris and uses a lot of the new fluff as a basis. I wish perhaps they had gone a bit further with it and had some minor civil wars and some chapters being purged for refusing to accept primaris but that would have had players up in arms.

Dawn of Fire might see that happen. It's the kick-off for the Indomitus Crusade where Guilliman sent out the Torchbearer fleets to connect with forces spread out across both Imperium Sanctus and Nihilus. It could very well be we see a side to a story where a Chapter needed to be ended due to its refusal to adopt the Primaris, whereupon it is quietly replaced by new warriors.

If we count FW, i really think the solar auxilia are neat.