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I propose that standard bolt guns and bolt pistols shoud be better.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in au
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Western Australia

 Blackie wrote:
There's no reason of course. It's just that SM players would soon start complaining that their boltgun weapons are too inefficient against armies that benefit from AoC, which are a lot considering how popular the power/termy armour dudes are. So instead of making their weapons even more ridiculosly powerful against all the other factions they could "fix" it by letting ignore AoC bonuses.

But of course the best scenario would be to make all bolters S4 AP0 with no exceptions, and no mechanics to improve them for free.

How is S4 AP0 D1 Rapid Fire 1 "ridiculously powerful"?

I disagree with your idea of a best scenario. IMO the bolter statline above just doesn't stack up to other weapon statlines with enough logical consistency (considering the lore, anyway). I do agree with you though that all the different bolter statlines (there are just way too many, all vying to be 'special') should be standardised/simplified in some way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/21 12:11:02




"Authoritarian dogmata are the means by which one breeds a submissive slave, not a thinking, fighting soldier of humanity."
- Field-Major Decker, 14th Desert Rifles

 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 I_am_a_Spoon wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
There's no reason of course. It's just that SM players would soon start complaining that their boltgun weapons are too inefficient against armies that benefit from AoC, which are a lot considering how popular the power/termy armour dudes are. So instead of making their weapons even more ridiculosly powerful against all the other factions they could "fix" it by letting ignore AoC bonuses.

But of course the best scenario would be to make all bolters S4 AP0 with no exceptions, and no mechanics to improve them for free.

How is S4 AP0 D1 Rapid Fire 1 "ridiculously powerful"?



SM bolters are already AP-1 or AP-2 thanks to doctrines (which buffs bolt weapons for the turns that matter) and/or primaris boltguns native AP. Which would become AP-2 and AP-3 against non power armour armies if they get buffed even further to counter AoC. I was specifically referring to SM bolters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/21 12:34:21


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Blackie wrote:
There's no reason of course. It's just that SM players would soon start complaining that their boltgun weapons are too inefficient against armies that benefit from AoC, which are a lot considering how popular the power/termy armour dudes are. So instead of making their weapons even more ridiculosly powerful against all the other factions they could "fix" it by letting ignore AoC bonuses.

But of course the best scenario would be to make all bolters S4 AP0 with no exceptions, and no mechanics to improve them for free.

You mean loyalist players will complain, because, again, CSM bolters have been AP0 since the start of 8th. AoC was a massive buff against the weapons of all factions, and that should include our own. If loyalists players don't like it? Tough. Suck it up the same way CSM players have for the last 5 years.
   
Made in au
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




Western Australia

 Blackie wrote:
 I_am_a_Spoon wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
There's no reason of course. It's just that SM players would soon start complaining that their boltgun weapons are too inefficient against armies that benefit from AoC, which are a lot considering how popular the power/termy armour dudes are. So instead of making their weapons even more ridiculosly powerful against all the other factions they could "fix" it by letting ignore AoC bonuses.

But of course the best scenario would be to make all bolters S4 AP0 with no exceptions, and no mechanics to improve them for free.

How is S4 AP0 D1 Rapid Fire 1 "ridiculously powerful"?



SM bolters are already AP-1 or AP-2 thanks to doctrines (which buffs bolt weapons for the turns that matter) and/or primaris boltguns native AP. Which would become AP-2 and AP-3 against non power armour armies if they get buffed even further to counter AoC. I was specifically referring to SM bolters.

I kinda see where you're coming from now, and I agree bolters shouldn't get to AP2 (without special ammunition anyway).

I personally think it's a bit stupid for doctrines to affect AP at all... IMO, when thinking about the core weapon stats, external factors like doctrines should work around them and not vice versa. And to me, given the lore around bolters (and other weapon statlines), AP1 seems more than appropriate (for Firstborn and Primaris bolters).



"Authoritarian dogmata are the means by which one breeds a submissive slave, not a thinking, fighting soldier of humanity."
- Field-Major Decker, 14th Desert Rifles

 
   
 
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