El Johnson as the Warmaster

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Gert**

People are putting too much emphasis on Chaos when that wasn't why most of the Primarchs joined Horus's rebellion and the reasoning was far more to do with how the Primarchs felt about the Emperor than what the Chaos Gods were doing. Hell, even some of the Loyalist Primarchs weren't all 100% on board with their father. But the Traitor Primarchs weren't all "hey you wanna overthrow dad?" "Hell yeah brother!".

Spoiler:

Mortarion served the Emperor but was very loyal to Horus, which prior to the Heresy wasn't a big deal. He felt his Legion went underappreciated, much like Perturabo, and resented many of his brothers for their easy "childhoods". Mortarion agreed Horus being made Warmaster was the correct choice but believed the position was a mistake and that the position would only cause strife among the brother Primarchs. He eventually joined Horus after the latter convinced him their father had lied to them and had consistently used the powers of the Warp both in the creation of the Primarchs and generally. Combined with Mortarion's distaste for the Emperor becoming a petty tyrant obsessed with power, he joined Horus to put a more worthy leader on the Golden Throne.

Perturabo was loyal to the Emperor to a fault. He hated his lot in the Crusade, being overlooked, and his Legion used as an anvil for some of the Crusade's worst battles but was too loyal to raise the issue with his father. He continued to grow bitter and eventually after Olympia rose up against the Emperor, it was the final straw that broke Perturabo. He razed his homeworld and enslaved its people before realising his mistake and in his moment of weakness turned to Horus as a confidant and figure of redemption. His loyalty was transferred to Horus and he only realised his mistake at the Siege where he saw the corrupted monster Horus had become and abandoned the Traitor effort.

Curze was nuts. He joined Horus for funzies probably.

Fulgrim was one of the few Primarchs who actually was corrupted before joining Horus. The Blade of the Laer turned him to the embrace of the Slaanesh and he became the first Daemon Primarch.

Angron was a mad dog on a leash. Horus let him off that leash.

Lorgar was Lorgar. He fell because he was manipulated by those he trusted. His greatest fault was that he trusted too easily and fell too hard when that trust was broken.

Alpharius/Omegon are a pain.

Magnus joined Horus because he had nothing left. It was desperation and it wasn't until the Siege that he was 100% on Horus's side during the Heresy. Everything Magnus did prior to the Siege was to get him closer to the Emperor to get an explanation for why the Wolves burned his home and slaughtered his Legion. The Emperor even gave him a chance to rejoin the Imperium and get a whole new Legion, if Magnus killed his current batch of sons.

**Boringstuff**

Catulle wrote:--SNIP--

I want to say it's from Vulkan's internal perspective in... Born of Flame?

Ahh, I've not read that book. I ended up skipping some of the anthologies as the short stories were, well, too short.

Tawnis wrote:--SNIP--

Alpharius / Omegon: 50/50. Yeah, they are convinced to fall in cannon, but even this there's a lot of infighting that follows and in that situation it's only because it's too late for them to do anything about it. If Alpharius or Omegon were the catalyst instead of an outsider, I think they would lay down and die for the Imperium, especially knowing that their twin would still be around to carry the torch. Also if one did fall, it's possible the Legion would just tear itself apart instead as the other would still be loyal and unlikely to be convinced otherwise.

Seems like a reasonable run down to me, however you could argue that Alpharius/Omegon were swayed by the Cabal instead - not that that storyline made much sense and BL kinda killed it off.

**tneva82**

Lord Zarkov wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
A few ponderings:

Was Horus made warmaster, over the Lion, because of the Ullanor crusade and if the lion and the DA had been there instead of the Luna Wolves would he have won the title?

And if the Lion were the warmaster would he have been the target of Choas to lead the heresy? Would they have evens been able to turn him against the emperor? It seems to me that the lion was a bit more simple minded and just wanted to prove to the emperor that he was the best warrior and leader. But the. I suppose what better way to prove your are better than beating them in in combat.

Horus was the first found (not counting Alpharius) by some time and had the best relationship with the Emperor. He’s also a lot more charismatic and popular than the Lion who’s respected but not really liked by anyone.

Horus was therefore the obvious choice for Warmaster regardless.

As MDC says though, if the Lion was Warmaster though the heresy would probably have still happened, but probably smaller in scope as he’d be less able to get people on side (something he struggles with even amongst his own legion!)

Oh　it would def have happened. Emperor needed marines to kill each other to get rid of them mission accomplished.

**mrFickle**

I think RG could have been turned traitor if he was shown the future, same as Horus in a way, but if he believed that the emperor was not good for the imperium then his pragmatic nature may have compelled him to remove the emperor for a greater cause.

I can’t quite think what would have turned the lion traitor, the emperor gave him the opportunity to be the best warrio mr and the best general and that is really what he wanted, he didn’t want the adulation that came with being warmaster but he wanted the recognitions so maybe if Horus had stayed loyal someone could have whispered in his ear that he needed to beat Horus in battle to prove himself and then once he did that he would realise he needed to beat the emperor

**Catulle**

Boringstuff wrote:
Catulle wrote:--SNIP--

I want to say it's from Vulkan's internal perspective in... Born of Flame?

Ahh, I've not read that book. I ended up skipping some of the anthologies as the short stories were, well, too short.

It's not one of the better ones, IMO, but the Salamanders in general put me to sleep. Which may have made it... unwise to audiobook on those Brum-to-Bristol drives...

**Tawnis**

Boringstuff wrote:
Seems like a reasonable run down to me, however you could argue that Alpharius/Omegon were swayed by the Cabal instead - not that that storyline made much sense and BL kinda killed it off.

Yeah, I love the Alpha Legion, and I liked the concept behind their fall, but not the execution of that concept.