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Tittliewinks22 wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:

I'm currently chuckling at people saying 'look out sir' is gone while the new rules say the player being shot at gets to choose who takes a wound.
So nothing has changed apart from you don't have to actually say 'look out sir' or roll a dice anymore - you just choose what shots go on whom.

I think you misread or misremembered the LoS rule.

Before you could tank the hits on the character, then pass the unsaved wounds off to the unit with "look out sir"

Now whatever model you choose to take the wound on is the one that must take the save. No more "take it on my artificer armor, but remove a power armor guy" situation.

I don't think you can use the save of a character then pass the wound off to another model because the save comes after the wound roll and LoS was about moving the targeted model away from being 'the closest model'

The point of annoyance i was getting at was the way you'd see a 2+ save sarge tanking all the higher AP suff and marines would be flinging themselves in the way as soon as an AP2 or AP1 weapon was incoming.

In 2.0 the controlling player chooses who takes the wound, so all the high AP shots are automatically applied to the sarge or whomever else happens to have a 2+, while any lascannons or artillery will be taking out the padding first.



edit: sorry totally forgot that artillery is AP4 now

 Strg Alt wrote:
Some units were deliberately nerfed to nudge people into using models presented in the core books. I don´t understand what the problem about this revelation is all about.

They used to encourage you to use niche or rare units by having interesting rules and reasonable points costs (arvus lighter, anvillus drop pod, triaros, LR achillies)

Not saying they got it right all the time though; they messed up royal with thanatars - particularly the Sollex Pattern Lascannon on the Calix variant.

It sounds like your gaming circle had just had a fairly serious meta-swing at that point as a response to terminator/artificer saturation.

People complain the most about AP2 because it was the first threshold which could ignore artificer armour and terminator armour.
These models tend to be the most expensive points wise.
Therefore the player doesn't remember the countless saves they made with them; just the moments when the plasma team in a drop pod ace them in a single round, or the three medusas hit every model in the squad with every template, or a myrmidon team with photon thrusters got line of sight or the quad mortars got upgraded to phosphex but still used four small blasts.

Those are all highly memorable moments for multiple reasons but the AP is a distraction.

I could get salty at my thanatars getting system32 deleted by a single spartan assault tank but was it really the AP2 that clicked delete or the psychic powers which made sure they hit and wounded or me not having a cover save?
Problem was my opponent decided he wanted it removed and used the rules to leverage the odds as he's supposed to.

As a side note it is absolutely unreasonable to expect the opposing player to whittle a terminator blob away with AP3 or worse weaponry.

That said, if they knew you were committed to walking them across the board, maybe they'd go for it? scenario style?

 Platuan4th wrote:

I have a feeling this is why they reduced the amount of AP2. Not because of the complaints, but because the reduced amount made Terminators and Dreadnought feel like they do in the fluff where they stride through masses of firepower undaunted.

Yeah i think you're spot on there.

edit: i realized i made a comment about dreadnoughts and MC status which was me cross-thinking from another forum entirely so i deleted it but crabblesworth saw it and replied before the deed was done.
So i felt i needed to re-add something here to explain the sudden random detraction into MC status discussion..

Sorry everyone.

The only issue i have with armour facings for dreadnoughts is the sudden death aspect of rolling on the damage chart which is what drive my sympathy toward dreadnoughts as MCs.

i'd have preferred them to look into allowing dreadnoughts to join a squad and gain a cover save from them rather than nerfing weapon AP to encourage the 'dreads among marines' aesthetic

I would trade a point of toughness off Mechanicum MCs apart from vorax and arlatax so long as they got a couple of extra wounds instead.
So vorax and arlatax stay T6 W4
domitar, castellax, vultarax to T6 W6
Thanatar to T7 W6

So getting back to the little info we have on the mechanicum thus far; it's been my personal opinion that the ordo distinctions are being binned in favour of a generic HQ and Ordo headcannon like they are some 'non-marine variant' legion rules.

Behold the only official info we have...


But to a Reductor player thats got a lot of info already.

deleted units - the 'Ordo Reductor artillery tank' is missing, as is the 'Ordo Reductor Minotaur Battery' (now available to anyone in the pdf) and so is the 'Magos Reductor' as well as standard pattern indentured Imperial Knights. The venerable 'Macrocarid Explorator' is similarly absent along with all three flyer options (primaris lightning, avenger strike fighter and arvus orbital lighter), Archmagos Inar Satarael and Archmagos Draykavac. We also know from playtest leaks that the Thanatar Cynis has been deleted; the Thanatar profiles have been integrated but the Cynis' weapon option is gone.

Weird Naming - Calleb decima is awesome and he has a double profile like ravenguard primarch; to those who have forgotten or didn't care he had an upgrade which would alter his profile to represent him after the Isstvan 3 atrocity called 'decima invictus' - the key point of this was it didn't allow you to take it for his alternative unit choice variant where you could represent the Ordo Reductor at their most desperate and scrappy.
The great point of that was it allowed you to take a single heavy support choice with the 'tank' type from the legion marine unit list; this was big because it was the only way an Ordo Reductor force could use a Landraider Achillies and was the only mechanicum faction to be able to.

strange additions - still not found any answers to what a 'Arcuitor Magisterium' is but i'm guessing they are the ham-fisted inclusion of the 40k unit 'electro-preists' since they're an elite unit type in 40k too.
In the playtest rules were 'kharax seige automata' which seem to match the setup of the 40k kastelan robot


page numbering - so each new section in an HH book get a single page dedicated to a symbol and the title to the section. this can be seen in the page numbering for the ordinatus where the unit has a single page but there is a missing page between the ordinatus aktaeus entry and the start of the appendicies..
this makes for..
5 pages dedicated to using warlords of the mechanicum
1 page for Calleb Decima
1 page for Magos Dominus
1 page for Magos Dominus on abeyant
double page spreads for both Archmagos and Archmagos on abeyant

The appendices section will likely have a title page for each sub-section leaving..
4 pages to explain cyberthurgy
3 pages for 'orders of high techno arcana'
8 pages of mechanicum special rules
4 pages of 'persona schizmata'
8 pages of divisio tactica titan legions
15 pages of divisio tactica questoris household


i believe that the appendices section is largely fluff because i don't believe GW would entertain telling players to consult the last editions books for fluff - naturally a bunch of it will be weapon profiles, special rules and unique equipment but i think the divisio tactica are just sections on using an allied force of IK or Titans alongside the mechanicum as allies and a bunch of fluff about how they worked alongside each other and whom.

The reveal of the contents of the mechanicum book is going to be a pivotal moment but i have many doubts and not a lot of faith in the poor sod which had to throw away all Alan Blighs work.

Actually, feth that guy; he deserves it.

The problem i have with the reactions system is that it's a constantly in effect option for any and every unit.
Personally i don't like stuff which slows things down by adding extra processes that are mandatory (death from the skies).

The reaction system could have been used to give unique differences to certain units instead of the general game mechanic it has turned out to be and that's a loss for the players imo.

This is definitely a case of 'be careful what you wish for'
Or in other words - get ready to buy a Mechanicum army because we get to double the reactions we can take just by having our warlord stand out of the way.

New Mechanicum infodrop...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/09/robot-death-rays-and-striding-knights-heres-what-a-mechanicum-army-offers-in-the-horus-heresy/


Bad news for Imperial Knight lists

For every two Troops choices – which are Armigers, by the way – a Lord of War may be taken.

Worth pointing out at this point that the ubiquitous flare shield drops the strength of blast type attacks by 2 so the medusa was actually S8 against anything with one; and a spartan needed a direct hit and a 6 for armour pen to glance it.

Also; the phosphex 'crawling fire' rule was what made them obnoxious because you'd be moving the fleshbane AP2 template 2" for the better every placement

The scatter dice being effectively a 5+ for an optimum hit position doesn't help


Edit: not liking how the whole 'disciplines' thing is looking

Pick one of seven different High Techno-Arcana,

The techno-arcana choice for a magos had six options (archimandrite, malagra, myrmidax, ordinator, lachrimallus and makrotek) but cybernetica is now one of those disciplines..

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
In 7th and HH 1 Walkers sucked so much GW and FW started to make new released walkers monstrous creatures (Mechanicum says hello). Little strange to see some people arguing for a return to that state.
I'd suggest to wait for an FAQ. FW is not that fast with FaQs but when they come they're usually reasonable fixes I'd say (going from lotr experience that is).
Also, people claim that HH usually is played by laid back people so even Phosphex launchers were okay... If that's true then dreads will be fine as well .

Mechanicum robots were priced well apart from the castellax
Nobody liked facing the Legio Cybernetica because of the castellax troops and their unique buffs.

domitar 175
castellax 105
vorax 65
thanatar 250
thanatar-calix 295
thanatar-cynis 275
edit:vultarax 175
arlatax 175



To argue 'the merchanicum had MCs' is invalid in this context because it was the legio cybernetica which made them OP.
My Ordo Reductor straight up has limits on how many you can take and demanded my compulsory troops were Thallax (as any good adept would choose)

Marine forces could get a squad of robots tops, IF you used the right HQ...

And vehicles should always have been able to split squadrons after the game starts.