Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't think you can really compare Chicago gangesters to hive gangers though.

Being 40k, those gangers are basically child soldiers fighting since very young and are involved in endless warfare with no end in sight inside the hives.

so you can argue that by the time they're 20, they are actually quite skilled at the particulars of hive warfare and probably not bad shots at all.

Now that won't necessarily translate to regimented order following that the guard requests, but it does mean they won't be weekend warriors like reservists.

A smart general would use them to their strengths, ie as dispersed scouting formations moving through enemy hives, rather than marching them across no man's land.

IMO then you'd see them as scouting units rather than battleline.

Another thing which might factor in is House Rivalries - if we use the relative extremes of the Necromunda Clan Houses as a template.

How do you train Guardsmen drawn from multiple Houses to work in concert? Rivalry between squads and companies can be a healthy thing. But it can also be detrimental should one upping each other override other considerations.

If the training to Guard Specification is done right? You might well have a force than can punch above its weight. Not only do you have experienced dirty fighters, but ones not unused to deprivation and hardship.

It’s also interesting to consider that different Hive Worlds may instil different tactics.

As Hellebore said? Gangers turned Guardsmen could make superb almost commando type troops. But another world may see Guard Recruitment as a way to palm off its headbangers, training what isn’t far from a Penal Batallion from the get go.

The Ian Watson Space Marine novel is gangers recruited from rival gangs going through training and deployment together. The Guard isn't the same as the Space Marines, but I don't think that should matter much. If either institution is commonly drawing on rival gangs they'll have developed ways to enforce discipline and get cadets into the mental state they require.

Tyel wrote:
I find the idea that you could recruit gangsters from the 1930s - or indeed today - and they'd somehow represent crack regiments in WW2 or today a bit silly.

In terms of average ability, its basically an issue of training - both time and budget.

I assume that the IG uses some version of the ASVAB - the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. Every potential inductee into the US military takes this test to determine what they know, and what they might learn. Some career fields have low requirements, while others are quite high.

Depending on the gang, it might only be suitable for meat shields, but those with a tech or mechanical focus, would be routed into those career fields.

Let us pause and recall that logistics decide the outcome of wars. For every trigger-puller at the front, there are lots of people fabricating the weapons, the ammunition, and seeing those supplies get where they need to be.

Thus: scrounger types might have very useful skills that would keep them away from the front lines and lead to productive careers.

We tend to think of the PBI as taking most of the hits, but for a while, the career field in Iraq that took the must casualties was truck drivers due to the IEDs. Food for thought.

I can see hive gangs coming to "arrangements" with judges about how a certain number of accessions would be arranged in exchange for looking the other way on certain matters. That way the planet meets its quota without using too much conscription, and the most volatile of the gangers are sent offworld for someone else to deal with.

Most gangers won't know how terrible the guard can be. Media reports on the conditions at the front would not be common, or exist at all. The recruiters can promise lots. The truth may be different.

Doesn't the guard generally recruit/conscript from PDF anyway?

The old stock guard regiment was (the spiders?) a necromunda gang that rose up (around 20,000 strong - so I guess in modern terms one of the minor houses like Goliath) and seized the interplanetary landing areas attempting to get offworld. The real army turned up, but once the leaders were executed and real officers were put in charge they were inducted into the guard wholesale.