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I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

 tauist wrote:
I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

It’s not just the skull masks. Nowhere is safe from them. They can get anywhere. They are behind you right now! I do think GW leaned a little too hard into the terror troop aspect. They are a backfield disruption unit. Get behind enemy lines, blow stuff up, assassinate key targets. Most of their job is in KT scale done before a 40k scale battle starts. They also suffer from the over the top world of 40k does not have a lot of space for psychology. In a universe full of zeolots, horrors from the beyond, killer death bots, literal demons, and worse, what do you need to do to be so scary it has game mechanics?

Most of the phobos bring deployment tricks. Infiltrate or scout. Reivers can scout, they can deep strike, they can ignore vertical distance. For being marines on foot, they are very mobile and can get places others cannot. The problem is that they don’t do much when they get there. And the points they cost to be in the list. Both of those are a lot better then they used to be. There is a lot of competition in the codex though.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So, things to avoid: devastators, tactical Marines, rhino, whirlwind, predator, razorback, land raider, Vanguard Vets, any "Legends" marine vehicles or characters?

Oof, to me those "are" what space marines are all about, bummer to have to be avoiding them these days

 Nevelon wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

It’s not just the skull masks. Nowhere is safe from them. They can get anywhere. They are behind you right now! I do think GW leaned a little too hard into the terror troop aspect. They are a backfield disruption unit. Get behind enemy lines, blow stuff up, assassinate key targets. Most of their job is in KT scale done before a 40k scale battle starts. They also suffer from the over the top world of 40k does not have a lot of space for psychology. In a universe full of zeolots, horrors from the beyond, killer death bots, literal demons, and worse, what do you need to do to be so scary it has game mechanics?

Most of the phobos bring deployment tricks. Infiltrate or scout. Reivers can scout, they can deep strike, they can ignore vertical distance. For being marines on foot, they are very mobile and can get places others cannot. The problem is that they don’t do much when they get there. And the points they cost to be in the list. Both of those are a lot better then they used to be. There is a lot of competition in the codex though.

IMO, Incursors and Infiltrators can already do all that backfield disruption stuff. So Reivers still feel awfully redundant to me. I suppose they must have their fans somewhere in order to have lasted this long tho

 Nevelon wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

It’s not just the skull masks. Nowhere is safe from them. They can get anywhere. They are behind you right now! I do think GW leaned a little too hard into the terror troop aspect. They are a backfield disruption unit. Get behind enemy lines, blow stuff up, assassinate key targets. Most of their job is in KT scale done before a 40k scale battle starts. They also suffer from the over the top world of 40k does not have a lot of space for psychology. In a universe full of zeolots, horrors from the beyond, killer death bots, literal demons, and worse, what do you need to do to be so scary it has game mechanics?

Most of the phobos bring deployment tricks. Infiltrate or scout. Reivers can scout, they can deep strike, they can ignore vertical distance. For being marines on foot, they are very mobile and can get places others cannot. The problem is that they don’t do much when they get there. And the points they cost to be in the list. Both of those are a lot better then they used to be. There is a lot of competition in the codex though.

I think they were originally planned to be a replacement for Assault Marines, but they just weren't willing to make Grapnel + Grav Chutes = Jump Packs which would actually make them somewhat decent.

 tauist wrote:
I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

I'm pretty sure those masks operate much like the banshees in that they enhance they battle cry of the marines to induce the fear in their targets.

The big issue with the Reivers is that GW is trying to make them into a close combat anti-character unit with deep strike capabilities. The problem is that they both lack durability and offensive damage to make them really worth taking when other units can to the same but better.

I like the design and the idea but in practice they have always had problems.

 tauist wrote:


IMO, Incursors and Infiltrators can already do all that backfield disruption stuff. So Reivers still feel awfully redundant to me. I suppose they must have their fans somewhere in order to have lasted this long tho

The fans are in Nottingham. They are the only Phobos that can Deep Strike though, so that keeps them around for the Phobos only Theme lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KingGarland wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I feel like Reivers are in a strange place thematically. Shock and Awe terror troops? Isn't that like, the whole shtick of whole Adeptus Astartes to begin with? Ok, you got skulls as your helmets, big deal, 40K is all skulls all the time, aint nobody gon' piss their pants over some skulls

I'm pretty sure those masks operate much like the banshees in that they enhance they battle cry of the marines to induce the fear in their targets.

The big issue with the Reivers is that GW is trying to make them into a close combat anti-character unit with deep strike capabilities. The problem is that they both lack durability and offensive damage to make them really worth taking when other units can to the same but better.

I like the design and the idea but in practice they have always had problems.

I don't think they were designed to be anti-character so much as anti-"chaff". They're another Chainsword ginsu unit with a different "frosting". They have precision now, which I missed. Because Reivers, but as originally designed it was the around the "worst" frosting - i.e. morale shenanigans. Now that we have Assault Intercessors and Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs they still (generally) lose in the comparisons. Assault Intercessors reroll Foam Sword 1' while JPAI will theoretically Mortal half of everyone they get into range of. Plus both get Sergeant upgrades. Reivers with almost but not quite Jump Packs lose out almost everywhere there. 10 points for 10 guys with REAL Jump Packs is an easy call.

Breton wrote:
I don't think they were designed to be anti-character so much as anti-"chaff". They're another Chainsword ginsu unit with a different "frosting". They have precision now, which I missed. Because Reivers, but as originally designed it was the around the "worst" frosting - i.e. morale shenanigans. Now that we have Assault Intercessors and Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs they still (generally) lose in the comparisons. Assault Intercessors reroll Foam Sword 1' while JPAI will theoretically Mortal half of everyone they get into range of. Plus both get Sergeant upgrades. Reivers with almost but not quite Jump Packs lose out almost everywhere there. 10 points for 10 guys with REAL Jump Packs is an easy call.

I agree. The problem is that they can't do anything well enough to justify themselves and when GW tried to give them a niche they failed to be good in that as well. If they are going to survive past 11th they will need an overhaul I think.

Reivers are there to capitalise on the love that people have for Night Lords But Loyalist, which has a substantial fanbase, if Carcharodons fans are anything to go by.