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 Wyldhunt wrote:

Dark Muses are specifcally not gods. They seem to essentially just be like, folk heroes/paragons of certain arts and virtues. But this gets a little messy in that Shaimesh is the name of both a dark muse and the brother of the world serpent (the mythical snake that Saim-Hann's symbol references). So it's unclear whether these are two different guys or if dark muses can potentially be supernatural entities so long as they aren't "gods" per se.

It's sort of like saying you revere impressive mortals rather than gods, but then one of the creatures you revere is like, Cerberus. Technically not a "god" but similar enough in enough ways to make things confusing.

Yeah. I was thinking yesterday evening that you could almost turn these into Dark Eldar Phoenix Lords if you really wanted to.
They aren't "gods" but they could still be entities. You take on the... aspect of Lhilitu, Hekatii, Shaimesh etc (are you then a cosmic dragon? I'll let GW's modelling team decide) - either by donning certain equipment, or just webway trickery.

This potentially uplifts them too much in the lore though and feels a bit of a cheap copy. But its a route you could go down if you wanted to expand on a strand of DE lore.
Given more than 10 minutes thought you could potentially come up with something cooler.

I was glancing through the 10th edition book for other ideas. The Last Hatred mentions them sometimes using undead Aeldari (paraphraising). Perhaps a bit niche - but that could be a unit.

 vipoid wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that the less attention GW gives to an army, the less likely they are to mess it up, if you don't like dark eldar, then you're out of luck, but if you do like them, then you're probably happy with their lack of attention, that's at least my opinion.

That might be true with respect to when GW decides to update existing models.

I don't think it applies when they take the Dark Eldar codex, rip out a third of the pages, and then release the result as the new edition's codex.

Yeah, removing units and character is bad sport on their part, probably because they don't want rules for models they want to stop making, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep supporting the people who already have those models.

I'm currently working on collecting a full set of asdrubael vect to fix the supply issue tho.

BanjoJohn wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that the less attention GW gives to an army, the less likely they are to mess it up, if you don't like dark eldar, then you're out of luck, but if you do like them, then you're probably happy with their lack of attention, that's at least my opinion.

That might be true with respect to when GW decides to update existing models.

I don't think it applies when they take the Dark Eldar codex, rip out a third of the pages, and then release the result as the new edition's codex.

Yeah, removing units and character is bad sport on their part, probably because they don't want rules for models they want to stop making, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep supporting the people who already have those models.

You mean like this? https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_22-10_wh40k_faction-pack_drukhari-6uxdycfi7j-maudf7cqmp.pdf

ccs wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that the less attention GW gives to an army, the less likely they are to mess it up, if you don't like dark eldar, then you're out of luck, but if you do like them, then you're probably happy with their lack of attention, that's at least my opinion.

That might be true with respect to when GW decides to update existing models.

I don't think it applies when they take the Dark Eldar codex, rip out a third of the pages, and then release the result as the new edition's codex.

Yeah, removing units and character is bad sport on their part, probably because they don't want rules for models they want to stop making, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep supporting the people who already have those models.

You mean like this? https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_22-10_wh40k_faction-pack_drukhari-6uxdycfi7j
-maudf7cqmp.pdf

I'm going to scan the parts of the mini for asdrubael vect so that people can 3d print it, even though its out of print.

ccs wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that the less attention GW gives to an army, the less likely they are to mess it up, if you don't like dark eldar, then you're out of luck, but if you do like them, then you're probably happy with their lack of attention, that's at least my opinion.

That might be true with respect to when GW decides to update existing models.

I don't think it applies when they take the Dark Eldar codex, rip out a third of the pages, and then release the result as the new edition's codex.

Yeah, removing units and character is bad sport on their part, probably because they don't want rules for models they want to stop making, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep supporting the people who already have those models.

You mean like this? https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_22-10_wh40k_faction-pack_drukhari-6uxdycfi7j-maudf7cqmp.pdf

I do think that while the model designers seem to hate designing DE (so we get barely any new models), someone writing the rules does still seem to love them (is Phil Kelly still about?). Sure they lose units every edition after 5th, but that’s generally application of NMNR and this edition’s Finecast purge. 6th/7th aside, the codex rules are generally written with plenty of flavour (as much as the edition allows) and at least ok competitively.
And those most recent legends rules are excellent, up to codex standard rather than phoned in like they usually are. Makes me think the coven units at least were probably originally intended to be in before they decided on the Finecast purge.

Background and Narrative wise, I do like the whole Different Cults aspect of Dark Eldar. But I understand it’s never really worked out in-game.

And with the old FoC gone, I don’t think it serves any purpose in the modern game. Happy to be corrected there though. Again, not up on it.

But moving away? My favourite question for any neglected army. What new units, or unit archetypes do you think would suit them?

Would alien Mercs offer something new?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Background and Narrative wise, I do like the whole Different Cults aspect of Dark Eldar. But I understand it’s never really worked out in-game.

And with the old FoC gone, I don’t think it serves any purpose in the modern game. Happy to be corrected there though. Again, not up on it.

But moving away? My favourite question for any neglected army. What new units, or unit archetypes do you think would suit them?

Would alien Mercs offer something new?

I think alien mercs is more of a tau thing - but I could see them arming their slaves with basic weapons, and an obey-or-blow-up cortex bomb. (maybe if the whole unit is destroyed you get a Deadly Demise?) Use Clan Rats as the inspiration. But The Dark Eldar need a lot more archetypes. They need the warrior, the priest, and the wizard in their leaders. They need more units that don't lean so heavily on "poison" represented by Anti-Infantry but otherwise low S. If Dark Eldar take on a Deathwing army its something of a laugher. If they take on Tau its a laugher in the other direction even though the units will have pretty similar statlines. The difference is Terminators are Infantry, and Tau suits are vehicles. And running into Nids Big Bugs is another example.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Background and Narrative wise, I do like the whole Different Cults aspect of Dark Eldar. But I understand it’s never really worked out in-game.

And with the old FoC gone, I don’t think it serves any purpose in the modern game. Happy to be corrected there though. Again, not up on it.

I think the issue is that all it's really doing is compartmentalising an already anaemic codex.

After the latest round of mutilations:
Kabal have 1 Generic HQ, 1 Special Character, 2 Infantry units and 1 Vehicle.
Wyches have 1 Generic HQ, 1 Special Character, 1 Infantry unit and 2 Fast units.
Coven have 1 Generic HQ, 1 Infantry unit and 2 Monsters.
Then you have Mercenaries, who have 1 Special Character and 3 flavours of Infantry (only one of which relates to said special character).

The options are limited enough without cutting them into pieces so small they make Harlequins look bloated by comparison.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My favourite question for any neglected army. What new units, or unit archetypes do you think would suit them?

So, before we even touch on new, we cover the returns...
- Vect on Dias of Destruction - with the Dias being more than a custom Ravager (I think someone mentioned Tantalus?), and the kit giving an option to build a standard Tantalus. Also give the option for a Vect on Foot in case you go for standard Tantalus.
- Grotesques, possibly as a dual-build kit with a melee unit and a ranged unit
- Multiple Beastmaster & pack kits, one for each of the beasts that went walkabout (I think that's 3?), with the Beastmaster having something for mobility if the unit is especilly quick.
- Court of the Archon - As someone mentioned elsewhere, the units for Huron & Titus cover this sort of thing. Maybe add an option or two to pad out?
- Urien Rakarth, in even more gribbly form
- Junior generic characters for each of the three main branches (which have had names for the ranks in the past, but I've forgotten them over time)
- From a rules perspective, the same access to Harlequins & Corsairs as their Craftworld equivalents

If I have missed anything that actually had a kit in the past, I apologise - I don't think we ever had "movement options for characters" as a release, so I'm avoiding them in the "returning" section. Also, if it doesn't have a datasheet for it now, add a datasheet for the Hand of the Archon that makes some use of the Kill Team bits.

As for new?
- Generic characters with movement options
- May as well do a model for Baron Siliscus (or however you spell it) if doing that
- A Wych unit designed to fight monsters, as I imagine that'd be a popular option in the pit fights, and the weaponry might not be the standard "Wych weapons"
- Actual kits for the Truebloods & the "elite" Wych unit (Bloodbrides?) - not sure if there was a Coven equivalent
- For a bit of an anvil unit, perhaps a "controlled" unit of Haemonculi'd Orks or something of that ilk - something chunky and obviously messed with that can hold an objective, has an in-unit Haemonculi pulling the strings, etc
- Some form of anti-psyker character - not full-on null, but someone who makes use of weird eldritch "tech" to both counter psychic abilities and remotely mess with their heads. I'm sure there are some old bits of DE wargear that might fight as equipment here
- A Kabal scout unit of some form - someone has to get the webway portals into place for the raiders to burst into realspace from, after all

I think exploring the mandrake shadow kingdoms more would also be cool.

That's a whole 4th cult they could expand out, with an almost chaos eldar vibe of mandrakes and shadow daemon monster troops, living shadow portals, and all sorts of craziness.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:But moving away? My favourite question for any neglected army. What new units, or unit archetypes do you think would suit them?

I personally think they should take a page from their Dark Elf selves and put a focus on the beast masters but bigger. Let them have a menagerie of alien monsters like the hydra or the kharibdyss that they deploy on there enemies during a raid when they really need something destroyed.