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 Gert wrote:
Chaos is also eternal. As soon as they existed they have also always existed. Time doesn't really exist in the Warp, it's why Slaanesh wasn't birthed until M30 but also was able to be one of the Colchisian Pantheon and the patron of the Laer.

Which is not inconsistent, mind you. Fulgrim is set after the Fall of the Eldar. The Fall of the Eldar occurred roughly at the very beginning of the Great Crusade, whereas the Laer are encountered by the Emperor's Children at its end, centuries later.

Edit: Looked it up. 250 years later near on the dot.

Yes but there were many pre-Imperial societies both human and xenos that worshipped Slaanesh in various guises.

Also the likelihood of the Laer going from planet bound to securing their star system with advanced technologies in only 250 years is very unlikely.

The point is, when one of the Gods manifested in the Warp, it had from that point always existed. They're a paradox because they don't conform to the laws of physics not being from the physical plane.

I think that Slaanesh is not the god of 'Excess', but the god of 'Desire". Arn't all the gods their domain taken to excess.

 Gert wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Wait, really? Nurgle is that young? That's... I'm not a fan of how human-centric it seems for a time when humanity was barely a blip within the galaxy.

That's just the human marker for it. Humanity didn't cause the rise of the Dark Gods, but their manifesting had implications for Earth and humanity.

Adamantium Dodecahedron wrote:

Wait, I was under the impression Slaanesh was the youngest of the four. Is that only in Fantasy?

The collapse of the Aeldari was around M30 so the difference between the middle ages of Earth and then is still a long time for sentient species.

It's important to remember that until the Fall of the Aeldari, the galaxy wasn't the crazy mess it was in the time of the Imperium. Apart from the Cybernetic Revolt it was humanity building its empire, the Aeldari doing crazy amounts of drugs within their borders, and the Orks just muckin about.

It is still suspiciously human-centric, IMO. In the 60-65 million years following the War in Heaven and the Warp first becoming tumultuous, 3 of the Chaos Gods only arise during a few thousand years that a few million humans are starting to develop civilisation? Just a very narrow time window for such a long period.

I can accept Slaanesh as being outside of that, even if ~30000 years after the others is still less than 0.1% of the period since the Warp was destabilised.

Either way, unless a few million humans creating early civilisations are enough to create a Chaos god when millions of years of other xenos were not, the Chaos gods are all still primarily created by the effects of xenos species, so their specific aspects and emotional connections do not have to translate perfectly to human emotions to still make lore sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Adamantium Dodecahedron wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch don't predate humanity, they came to fruition as humanity started to become civilised.

Wait, I was under the impression Slaanesh was the youngest of the four. Is that only in Fantasy?

Slaanesh is the youngest, being born circa 30k CE, vs circa 1350 CE for Nurgle. (According to the RoC section Gert is referencing)

It’s not explicit when the other two were born Tzeentch was when ‘nations and politics grew to adulthood’ which could be many things. Sumeria in 4-5k BC (unlikely, see below)? Greek city states and Athenian democracy circa 500 BC? Roman Empire circa 0 CE? Something in the Middle Ages shortly before the birth of Nurgle?

Khorne was when ‘an age of wars and conflicts raged across the globe’. So could be anytime tbh, though apparently ‘many thousands of years after’ the Emperor’s birth in circa 7-8k BC.

The latter sounds like it is probably supposed to refer to the World Wars, or perhaps some of the later colonial conflicts that were global like the Napoleonic Wars.

3 gods appearing within, at most, 7 thousand years out of 60-65 million really seems... too narrow.

Given this is pretty ancient lore from Rogue Trader I think it would probably be better for it to be quietly retconned, perhaps as the suppositions of a (human) scholar of Chaos rather than "fact". I don't think the older 3 need an event to be explicitly described in lore as Slaanesh has, but the lore really doesn't benefit from being so human-centric for such galaxy-defining entities. It is already bad enough that we have very limited representation of Chaos xenos. I'd love a model of an Eldar Daemon prince of Slaanesh, or for a unit of the Thyrrus (not explicitly Chaos, but seems very likely from the description we have).

Tygre wrote:
I think that Slaanesh is not the god of 'Excess', but the god of 'Desire". Arn't all the gods their domain taken to excess.

No, and yes, in that order.

Slaanesh is about experience, the more extreme the better.

Which is why Slaanesh is such a threat to the other Gods. Whilst still young and growing in power? Every single act of excess feeds Slaanesh. Now, it may be crumbs from the table, but it’s still grist for Slaanesh’s mill.

Acts of excess dedicated to Slaanesh via ritual of course provide the more. But there’s a constant supply of excess in the Galaxy. Heck, even the Path System of the Craftworlds are a form of excess.

Exactly the case.

Allow me to provide some photos (sorry for shoddy quality):

Battletome: Slaves to Darkness:



Codex: Chaos Daemons:

On a god of fear?

Fear isn’t a complex emotion, it’s more instinctual. It’s like a side dish to a main course. Fear of failure. Fear of dying. Fear of heights.

The Chaos Gods seem to embody and encourage more complex emotions. For instance? Despair. Despair requires sentience, and the feeling that things are never, ever going to get better for you. That requires the ability to think into the future and see possible scenarios. Greed goes beyond desire, as it’s about wanting as much as you can get for yourself and hoarding it.

Animals get angry. But rage is something more. Anger isn’t necessarily healthy, but doesn’t, unlike rage, lead to a loss of self control.

So, the four Gods all have something to gain from fear. But none claim it all for themselves.

There may well be a minor god of Chaos that’s closely associated with Fear, sure. But it’s not the same foodstuff the big four devour with such gusto.

Both in IRL and fictional pantheons gods of fear tend to be minor gods rather than fear being an aspect of a major diety.