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Yea, but he wasn't using them as BTs.

The only way I can see Tau taking a proper drop-pod army is to go all deep-strike and hope for good first turn and reserve rolls. O?Shovah + mass bodyguard is the best bet, since he makes the squad LD10, fairly resilient to fear, can pile up invulnerable saves, the whole lot can deep-strike, and, with O?Shovah and the shield drones, can happily wade through a marine squad or two. Terminators are even easier, the O?Shovah squad is quite capable of killing two five man termie squads per turn and has no fear of a few assault cannons with all those shield drones floating around. Plus it?s easier to get the librarian down in one turn of shooting if he is in with Terminators, useful as he is a figure Farsight would prefer not to engage.



964 ? O?Shovah unit of doom (all BS4 fireknife with 2 SDs each) with 2 target locks
117 ? Shas?el (fireknife/array) with positional relay
231 ? Fireknife team, with team leader with array, 2 shield drones
53 ? Deathrain with array
120 ? 12 Firewarriors
165 - Railhead
195 ? 2 Broadsides with 2 shield drones, ASS


The positional relay means you can almost guarantee dropping on turn 3 if you get the first turn, giving you as good a chance as any of getting the drop on one of the HQ squads, and a reasonable chance of getting the drop on both if you get the second turn and play your set-up right.

Plus, used correctly, this is a fairly tournament capable army. You could play around with the Crisis Suits as you wished really.

That would actually be a Tau army I'd like to see. Purely for the purposes of variety. Most Tau armies I face in tourneys and in friendly games are mostly mechanized.

Capt K

Well Capt k, wether you know it or not, I do have almost every model to build that list... I just need something around 1 or 2 more crisis suits and 16 shield drones.

Well, I think it transforms the game from a massacre to a game of a few key dice rolls.

i) Do Tau get the second turn? If so, they have a big advantage
ii) Can O?shovah pass his Ld 8 FotD test(s)?

If Tau get the second turn, its possible O?Shovah?s unit won?t have to pass any FotD tests, and will be able to pounce on some expensive units.

And the question of whether the mission allows O?Shovah to kill enough of the opposing army. If its recon, the Podders will simply slam down in the Tau deployment area, use the Drop Pods as cover, and the O?Shovah unit will never kill enough of them. For other missions, the Tau have a much better chance, but better does not elide into easy.

The O?Shovah list nicely dovetails into 1850 points. At 1500, its much harder as you really have to cut corners. Regular Tau build better at 1500.

I'd be interested to know what a good drop-pod player, e.g. Mauleed, thinks of it though.

But can you win with the O'shovah list against anything other than pods? Wouldn't it be better going to a GT to just take a strong standard tau list and hope you don't play a rock hard pod player?

Torgoch pretty much took the words out of my mouth. It'd be a gamble to be sure, but it's certainly better than the alternative. I've found that I can give a less-than-optimized drop pod list a run for its money with a normal battlesuit-heavy list if I deep strike my suits, but against the type of list Ed is talking about, I think Farsight is the only recourse. It does require a good bit of discipline, though, to split the mega-unit's fire wisely to avoid wasting shots or leaving a model or two standing. Every shot is crucial in a game like that.

I haven?t actually used the list yet, as I only play 40K 2 or 3 times a month, and when I do I tend to play with Tyranids at the moment. That said, I?m taking it to the GT, and believe it can do very well there, so will probably dig the Tau out again in month or so. However, I?m moving to Norwich, not exactly the most populous place in the world, and whether I?ll find anyone playing anything that would genuinely test the list, I don?t know.

Spooky has been playing it at Flame-On in Mancs, with such success that it has prompted some people to call it ?broken?, but I understand it didn?t do so well at the Toy Soldiers competition. However, it?s essentially a VP denial list, able to crush some opponents, but not likely to massacre things like Iron Warriors or Super-tough biker lists, and so will be likely to do better in the this years GT, which is a W/L/D system, with ties decided by accumulated VPs.

I?d be interested to know what people would do to actually beat farsight, but that is probably for another thread.

Yeah, a separate thread would be a good idea. I suppose I'll collect my thoughts and post something in a few hours. If anyone else wants to get things rolling, feel free to jump in there before me.

tau can play for a draw against pods, and get it quite reliably. you just deepstrike everything and disperse the rest. it then depends on a few things:

-if you can out-score on the mission (eg recon, secure and control) because you can force him to chose between shooting you, or scoring when he drops. then you go score at the end.
-if he's got many assault-cans, or has gone for power armour squads. power armour is easier to out-manouver
-who gets first turn, or better reserves
-escalation helps as well, as then your tanks are off-table too.

if you play with a good tau list (eg loads of crisis, and railheads) and the enemy doesn't have too many asscans then its possible to get draws at worse, or minor wins quite often, via deepstrike and dispersion.

also, farsight can spank the crap out of (power armour) drop pods. because he can play the close ranged firefight game much better than they can. but you still need him to be not on the table when the librarian falls.

Spooky, I completely disagree. I would be very impressed with any Tau player that could even get a draw against the list I usually field.

My only real problem with the list is that it is to one dimensional you have allot of stuff that is good for taking out Armour.  Which is all well and good till you play an infantry SM/CSM army and those fusions, and plasmas, and railheads just won't kill them fast enough.

For the Railheads i would replace them with move and shoot broadsides with two shield drones 2+/4+ and TL it gives you a better chance of hitting when it matters. Plus they are cheaper.

Maybe throw in a Skyray too.  Firewarriors hitting on 3+ is hot.

Take out at least a piranha and put SMS on the devilfish as well to add a little extra firepower against troops.  the more SMS in the list the better

I like the crisis teams but i would give at least one of your HQ a CCN to help the firewarriors out with target priority.

Allot of this is coming from my own experience on both sides of the tau army.  I like the FoF tactic and use it myself with some modifications.  If you play Armour heavy opponents your list is great but where I play you see allot more infantry based armies and less reliance on Armour so that list would not do so hot.  In the end it is your army and your list to do what you want.

well firstly, i was talking about average pod armies, which are mostly power armour. yours is termy/asscan based, which is obviously harder for tau to deal with
secondly, the 1500 environment suits tau well. it suits drop pods less well, generally.

NYCowboy, I completely disagree with your post as it seems you don't understand. what use is taking a skyray to BS-boost for firewarriors, against drop pod armies? if your game plan is hinging on rapid fire str5 against drop pod armies, well you're screwed anyway. the rest of the post is not good advice either

Terminators have it worse against O'Shovah don't they? The shooting isn't effective against 3+/4+inv, and they'll never get the charge on the unit as they take being rapid fired with 7 plasma rifles very very badly. Even if they do, O'Shovah can take a termie squad with careful positioning, so long as the librarian isn't there (and any sensible Tau player will prioritise killing the librarian very very quickly.

Mauleed, could you offer any input into the tactics thread on the same subject?

No, see a power armour squad either has melta or plasma.

plasma, you just have to jump back to 13-18" and soak the rapid fire, you win that fire-fight big time. if you're outside of 18", they have to stand and shoot in which case you are in even less danger

a squad can't drop within 1" of you, so if you can move backwards you can always get to 13" or more away from a single unit. if you butcher 2 units a turn at short range, it means they've got to drop 3 squads in a single turn, all close enough such that you can't escape them all. this isn't likely, and even if they do get to charge a single squad in, you probably kill it over time anyway. the danger though is getting more units piling in, you then can't shoot and get ground down.

the thing about needing to get 3 or more squads down at the right time is obviously easier in larger games, at 1500 only dedicated, pure pod armies have 6 or more pods so its not as likely.

if they have melta, then thats less shots you need to soak on the invul, and less range so they dont have a hope of hurting you if you jump outside of 18"


terminators are bad news, compared to normal 'podders.
because, 24" move and shoot means you have to avoid their (mobile) LOS so its far harder to take them out a squad at a time, they move and fire and charge
and they have far too many powerfists to make it acceptable to get into combat. the plasma and fusion you can pack will brutalise terminators, but if there's too many of them (eg lysander) then you're screwed.

Posted By Spooky on 08/03/2006 3:46 PM
well firstly, i was talking about average pod armies, which are mostly power armour. yours is termy/asscan based, which is obviously harder for tau to deal with
secondly, the 1500 environment suits tau well. it suits drop pods less well, generally.

NYCowboy, I completely disagree with your post as it seems you don't understand. what use is taking a skyray to BS-boost for firewarriors, against drop pod armies? if your game plan is hinging on rapid fire str5 against drop pod armies, well you're screwed anyway. the rest of the post is not good advice either

I am not sure where your coming from with your post, but hear me out.  A skyray against drop pod armies is great.  It can either take out the drop pods, or mark that dread and hit it with a seeker. The skyray is an incredibly versatile tank.  And with the ability to mark two different targets a turn that can really hurt and opponent that is coming in piecemeal.

The move and fire broadsides I still feel are better then a Railhead for the TL factor alone, and with shield drones are much harder to take out then a railhead.

SMS would really hurt a drop pod force because now they can't hide from you.  That whole ?don't need los? makes SMS systems and obvious choice when dealing with drop pods.

The list with these changes would still be very strong against drop pods I feel, but in a tournament your not just going to play one type of armies so you need the versatility in your list to beat any army that you face.  The list as drawn up would do well against drop pods, but not much ells.

And if your going against Drop pod armies the CCN is something i feel you can't live without. The number of target priority check would would have to make just to not shoot fireworriors at drop pods alone makes it a strong call.

"A skyray against drop pod armies is great. It can either take out the drop pods, or mark that dread and hit it with a seeker."

tau armies shouldn't be shooting the pods, nor should they have much to fear from the dreads. a railhead is much better use of a heavy slot, and more useful against dreads.


broadsides instead of hammerheads against drop pods is a horrible idea. seriously horrible.

hammerheads can't get fear'd off the board, they can't get caught in assault, they can even skimmer-block to protect your other units from being charged.

you don't even need railguns particularly against pods, as they're mostly infantry based.

SMS is good yea. but its not going to be the basis of a gameplan, as it's too expensive for that. its a minor bonus you get, from buying railguns.


"And if your going against Drop pod armies the CCN is something i feel you can't live without. The number of target priority check would would have to make just to not shoot fireworriors at drop pods alone makes it a strong call."

but, why are we even talking about firewarriors? they get hosed by drop pods. strong tau armies are not based on the troops. and it needs to be strong to beat pods.

You've got to be playing against extremely unfocused opposition if you've had any good experiences with the Skyray against Pods. Or with firewarriors against pods for that matter.

How do you see a Skyray helping when, as we all know, a pod with either 2 meltas or 2 assault cannons will drop next to it on turn 2. Or how non-los weapons help for that matter? Or how firewarriors help when they run on 6s or 7s from FotD?

We all have our own tactics and styles of play I am just telling you what works for me.  and besides your not the one playing the army.  If me_person likes my idea great if not oh well.  I am just letting him know what I use and how I run my tau.  The Skyray is a good choice to me so I play it.

Really what devilfish wall can you make against drop poding forces the drop in behind you and there goes that whole wall idea.

as for SMS are cheap for all they can do.  longer range then gun drones, more shots, and no los needed.  you can not hide from SMS and that is the key.  5 fish with them can do allot of damage to targets you can't see. while your firewarriors and suits beat on things they can see.

And you will want to take out drop pods once they land to try and reduce the places for you to have to take target priority.

and the CCN will also work for the crisis suits to allow them to shoot pasted drop pods.

my main concern is that the army is too one dimensional as I pointed out in my first post.  If me_person wants to win a tourney he needs to find a balance and I am trying to give him suggestions to create that balance.  Not just create a list that will destroy one guy in the tournament that he might not even play.

Posted By torgoch on 08/04/2006 10:13 AM
You've got to be playing against extremely unfocused opposition if you've had any good experiences with the Skyray against Pods. Or with firewarriors against pods for that matter.

How do you see a Skyray helping when, as we all know, a pod with either 2 meltas or 2 assault cannons will drop next to it on turn 2. Or how non-los weapons help for that matter? Or how firewarriors help when they run on 6s or 7s from FotD?

Ok then if your so adamant that the skyray will get lit up be a drop poding force why not the hammerheads that are in the list currently.  They are both tanks with the same amour the sky ray is cheaper and can do so much more.  you guys probably wrote it off because there is no str.10 gun on top The marker lights can help your crisis suits as well pass target priority test so they can shoot a squad, instead of the drop pod that they are standing next to.

With all the blocking terrain that the pods create a non-los weapon is perfect they can shoot anything that is hiding.  Drop pod forces are great at taking away firelanes, denying you the shots on there force, and the SMS are a great counter to that tactic by allowing still for fire on them.

And lastly, your firewarriors should not be getting out of the devilfish unless they intend to completely obliterate whatever is in front of them. Otherwise they stay inside the fish.

.

I did pretty good in the tournament. Unfortunately I didn't win, but coincidently... a pod army did. For full details check the battle reports section, but I'll give some breif summaries.
Game 1
Vs Tau- Victorious slaughter
His list certainly wasn't optimized and I tabled him

Game 2
Vs Lost and the Damned-minor loss
really sick army, by turn three It was looking like I would massacre him, but all his daemons came in and did a hell of a lot of damage with some crazy good scatter rolls.

Game 3
Vs Mahu's Space marines-solid victory
3 las/plas squads, 6 man-3ml dev squad, assault squad, whirl wind, terminator command squad with 2ass-cannons a master and a fear/fury librarian, 8 man double melta pod squad, scout squad, and two speeders
It went back and forth. Fear sent my non-shas'el crisis suits running off the table.
The game left him with 2 las/plas squads, half a devestator squad, wounded commander and libby, and 1 speeder. I had 2 hammerheads, 1 devilfish, 2 fire warrior squads, both shas'els, 2 piranhas.

I did win best sportsman though...

This list has done very good, tournament wise, I've used it in 3 rtts and an indy gt with very good results. 11-2-1. Winning 2 of the rtts and coming in second in the indy GT. I'm not trying to show my win record to make my words more weighty, I'm just showing it to show that I've had success with this list agianst a wide range of opponents, including pods.

What did the pods look like that you beat? What was your assessment of the list/game.

Well, I did post a brief note of that game on page two of this thread, but heres the list.

fear/ fury libby terminator squad with double assault cannons
terminator squad with double cannons
4 venerable dreads in pods, all had tank hunters and one had las/missile
2 8 man tactical squads with double melta and fist sarg in pods

So, not really a normal pod list. It was a very close game. I reduced his army down to half a tac squad, and two dreads (and six pods I never bothered to shoot...). I dont remember exactly what I had left, but he had around 560 points left and I had around 780 or something like that.

I ran a similiar Tau list with Stealth suits in replace of one fireknife squad. Devilfish would run forward FOF and continue int the lines to escort any thing that did break of the table. Very optimized list as far as Mech Tau go. I had never went up against a term deep striking pod list but against regular podding marines with heavy meltas and plas it does very well. The decoys are very efficient. Libs are generally a non factor as the most of the army are in transports and whenever deep strike is allowed hold your suits in reserve and try to get position on pods. Me_persons list is tough for any matchup and podding terms would even have a hard go of it.

Me_Person: well, I can see that if you're going to give tau a chance, that's the list that would do it. Tau have plenty of guns to drop dreads, venerable or not.

Yea, I know thats not a great representation of my army would do against pods, as tau certainly can kill dreads. Even if I would get my *donkey* handed to me, I really want to play against a really good drop pod list, just to see what I would be able to do to my opponents army in a worst case scenario situation.

congrats Me_Person.

you know, i never even looked at the list in this thread? i only came in cos of the drop pod vs farsight discussion

its pretty good. i would have traded 3x decoy launchers off piranha, for 3x disruption pods on hammerheads though

reason being, if a piranha gets shot at, you consider it dead. they should only come out of hiding if you find something worth trading them for.

but a hammerhead, its crucial you do as much as you can to keep it alive. dpod frees it up from being so crucial to get it entirely behind terrain, and its often impossible to completely hide 3 of them. so a dpod lets them operate not so tied to terrain, maybe letting your piranha or crisis have better hiding places


do you find the decoy does anything on the piranha?

Some times it helps, some times it doesn't. I'll probably drop the decoys on them and do what you said, give d pods to the hammerheads.