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2009/09/18 07:27:12
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
LunaHound wrote:I didnt want to post this because when i saw it on TV , it was pretty disturbing ( it was a documentary on discovery channel where police were heavily lacerated before they can draw their gun from holster )
But i had a feeling a few of you seriously doesnt know how a split second can effect the whole situation
even if you are a police NOT TO MENTION if you are the victim from the intruder.
Have fun , hope it doesnt happen to your beloved ones btw.
So ya... if you want to take the time to ask if the intruder would like a cup of tea ( or milk and cookies since its late at night ) please go ahead.
Looks like the aftermath of a 'ardboyz WFB Tourney in Calgary.
2009/09/18 07:28:42
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Wow...I never expected that outta Luna...that was pretty disturbing though...
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
2009/09/18 07:30:05
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
2009/09/18 07:30:16
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 07:31:38
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
2009/09/18 07:34:10
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Feel sorry for any sumbitch who tries to steal the 6 bottles of Yukon Jack and 30 pounds of steak from my chest freezer though.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 07:36:51
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/18 07:36:57
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
2009/09/18 07:37:43
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
2009/09/18 07:40:14
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Bring guns (and women) or just guns. I got 4 boxes of skeet so grab your shotguns as well.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 07:47:37
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
JEB_Stuart wrote:Wow...I never expected that outta Luna...that was pretty disturbing though...
Well Jeb , i see it as educational . Trust me i was shocked to see (more and WORSE) cases throughout that documentary .
So all i can say is.... people are pretty ignorant in thinking police using force are always excessive without reasons ( in the docu )
You really cant expect to fathom the length bad guy goes to .
Damn, I think I'm a have to grill tomorrow. Perhaps marinade the steaks in a nice, somewhat spicy whiskey marinade with a dash of garlic to help add flavor.
Damnit, it's 2am and I want steak!
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 07:51:33
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
LunaHound wrote:I didnt want to post this because when i saw it on TV , it was pretty disturbing ( it was a documentary on discovery channel where police were heavily lacerated before they can draw their gun from holster )
But i had a feeling a few of you seriously doesnt know how a split second can effect the whole situation
even if you are a police NOT TO MENTION if you are the victim from the intruder.
Have fun , hope it doesnt happen to your beloved ones btw.
So ya... if you want to take the time to ask if the intruder would like a cup of tea ( or milk and cookies since its late at night ) please go ahead.
Mad props on using people injured in service to the community for points scoring in an internet argument.
Even more props for making the nonsense comparison between an officer with a holstered weapon and an armed person in their own home. Unless you're arguing that people, upon hearing a noise, get their gun, holster it, and go looking around the house?
And even more props for the cheap shot about offering tea and cookies. That one is especially cool considering how much time you spent complaining about other people taking a poor interpretation of your comments... when we'd only taken your statements at face value. Yet despite your offence at that, here you are pretending we thought an intruder should warmly greeted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fateweaver wrote:It's a shame others don't feel its that cut and dry John and will of course have to post 2 dozen more times why the intruder has rights even when his rights infringe on ours.
No.
It's a case of wanting to see a decent investigation carried out in full, so that we can be confident 'he was backed up against the shed when the deceased lunged' is the truth and the whole truth. We all recognise the rights of both parties, but we also recognise there is a place where those rights stop, and self defence becomes manslaughter or murder.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/18 07:51:53
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2009/09/18 07:54:34
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
w/e Seb , you are the only one here complaining . You pretty much missed the whole point of using the police as example.
The point is pretty simple and basic...
Police is armed
Police was just making arrest , not to harm
Police is careful
They still got injured to that point.
The point for some reason i still cant get it to you ( ok i'll blame it on myself that my explanation is bad , but honestly i would expect you to connect the dots and make some sense out of it
like fateweaver can )
Intruders are OFTEN like rabid animals , you cant expect to bargain or reason with them , they'll cause harm because they can .
Oh and Seb , i already forgot what you are still complaining about.
Actually seb, im so tired in talking with you , for some reason you can NEVER see the point in a sentence i make.
I mean ok there is a possibility that the sentence sucks , but then WHY does fateweaver get it right every -single -time.
Im NOT talking about fateweaver agreeing with me , Im talking about the very basics , he "understands" what im trying to say.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:04:15
All well and good but some have already stated that had the kid abandoned his garage and went back inside that all would be rosy. Rosy for the perp who walked away with someones belongings only to do it again the following night or week or whenever. The system failed Mr. Rice and it failed the student. Had the system not failed, Mr. Rice would be alive today, eating 3 meals, watching all the cable he wants but at least he'd be off the street.
It would be really hypocritical if the system failed the student by jailing him. If this turns out to be truth and he is never charged there will still be some to question it. A copy of the new Space Hulk says Mr. Rices sister sues or tries to sue the student for wrongful death.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 07:59:31
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
sebster wrote:It's a case of wanting to see a decent investigation carried out in full, so that we can be confident 'he was backed up against the shed when the deceased lunged' is the truth and the whole truth. We all recognise the rights of both parties, but we also recognise there is a place where those rights stop, and self defence becomes manslaughter or murder.
Considering this complaining is... well it is silly Luna, I tell you what.
If I am not mistaken (I will skim through the new article) there is absolutely no proof that this kid is not lying (and why would he lie after killing someone? what possible reasoning could there be behind that?) and he didn't actually plan this thing out to some degree, which is entirely feasible to me at this point.
Planning would just be, actually taking the first shot, as in him not being lunged at; instead he runs up and hits the guy in the chest while severing his hand in the same swing. If you think this is unrealistic, think again.
It would be really hypocritical if the system failed the student by jailing him. If this turns out to be truth and he is never charged there will still be some to question it. A copy of the new Space Hulk says Mr. Rices sister sues or tries to sue the student for wrongful death.
If this kid is the only witness, why in the feth is this case so solid to you? None of us know this kid, and I am perplexed at how knee-jack (and pack-like quite frankly) some of you are being about this. It has formally turned from a conversation (sort of...) into a shouting match.
As far as I am concerned you cats had made up your mind as soon as you read "criminal" in the headlines... which is fine, but hiding behind vaguely concealed ad hominem, and some loosely based "reality checks" as you call them, is just about the best way to take this thread down the tubes for absolutely no reason.
Heads above the water cats and dogs, if you may.
There... is no evidence that what this kid says is even true... fantastic publicity case if I have ever seen one. Lack of evidence is about the only thing on this kids side right now, besides the fact that no one gives a rat's ass either way.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:13:14
2009/09/18 08:05:18
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Wrexasaur wrote:
If this kid is the only witness, why in the feth is this case so solid to you? None of us know this kid, and I am perplexed at how knee-jack (and pack-like quite frankly) some of you are being about this. It has formally turned from a conversation (sort of...) into a shouting match.
Well seb is the one that came in throwing bunch of ************** at me tonight . I dont even know what the heck his problem is.
wrex look at seb's post starting from page 6 and see who started the aggression.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:09:58
I can't believe this thread is still active. There are plenty of situations in which killing an intruder is justified. There are also plenty of situations in which that same action is not justified.
If you shoot someone in the chest because they force open a screen door, expect to face a manslaughter charge.
Do the same if they go through a wood door, probably get off clean.
Honestly, if it takes you more than two seconds to determine the intent of any given individual (where the choices are kill me, or not kill me), then you have no business owning a firearm.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2009/09/18 08:07:17
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Whoa, whoa, whoa....lets simmer down a bit before the Modquisition comes after us all. Fraz, please put the gun down now....
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
2009/09/18 08:08:40
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
That is why I said IF it turns out to be truth. Even with no witnesses, with enough time, they'd be able to recreate what happened based on what evidence they do have.
As crappy as the system is once you are found to be a person of interest (love that new term) if you indeed actually commit a crime for which you are suspect it's not long before you are nailed and with alot stacked against you.
Odds are that "person of interest" in the Annie Lee case did in fact do it. Can't say 100% as I don't know the facts but it won't be long before they get a yay or a nay from the lab on a possible DNA match from the sample the guy gave.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 08:13:01
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
dogma wrote:I can't believe this thread is still active. There are plenty of situations in which killing an intruder is justified. There are also plenty of situations in which that same action is not justified.
If you shoot someone in the chest because they force open a screen door, expect to face a manslaughter charge.
Do the same if they go through a wood door, probably get off clean.
Honestly, if it takes you more than two seconds to determine the intent of any given individual (where the choices are kill me, or not kill me), then you have no business owning a firearm.
What does door type have to do with anything? I'm confuzzled????
Mmmm...started my marinade for my steaks, it's in the fridge; gonna sit for 4 hours to help the garlics and spices react and mix with the Yukon.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 08:19:16
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
grizgrin wrote:Luna, I have one word for you in your aforementioned troubles:
I dunno , im honestly confused to what seb is on about , not just tonight , but from the starting of this thread.
He misunderstands my points , i told him thats NOT what i meant , he choose to not believe me and not reinterpret what i mean. ( despite some others clearly understands )
I even retyped it atleast 2 times within this thread already, he still ignored it .
He comes up with some scenario , because its not realistic , i came up with another scenario.
He ignores my scenario , and keep assuming my replies are to be based on his . Why should i?
Thus I Do Not Understand you Seb.
For the sake of you keep continuing this , READ this First.
1) I never said Intruders on a property should automatically be slaughtered because the owner can
2) I did say in a situation where you are forced to react to incapacitate the intruder , and when its literally a split second decision between who shoot who first ,
i dont think the victim ( house owner ) should be holding back and humanely try to aim for the arm or the leg . ( i stated torso to be most accurate )
i also stated NOT ALL intruder are there for stealing things , there are also Murderers . HENCE why i said none of us are psychic and we do NOT always have the privilege of 2nd guessing.
3) I brought up intruder already lost his human rights for this reason. Can you imagine them shooting at each other? the home owner 's aim was delayed because he was worried about
excessive force , and his aim missed the arm altogether during the fight. And then the intruder shot the man dead , and then the family . What im saying all along is , dont have 2nd thoughts
and gave all these opening for someone that ignored YOUR rights to be safe in YOUR house and end up dead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:25:57
What I would like to know is if Mr. Rice had a record of violent crimes, I think that would shed at least some light on this. Hiding in the bushes after having cops swarm... then waiting until the guys come back after drinking a few beers or watching a bit of TV? I mean the holes in this are quite profuse, to say the least.
I have seen friends get drunk and start beating the living crap out of eachother, well, not the living crap, but you get what I mean. Taking a real danger (at least in their minds) and adding it into the mix of hormones (and alcohol for all I know) is a recipe for this kind of thing to happen.
Mainly what I would guess (as a possibility mind you) is that the guy was leaving as the student came around the corner, and he panicked, in turn making the kid panic (understandable, truly); unfortunately for Mr. Rice the kid had a katana and he just hit him as soon as he saw him. Maybe the guy came out right in front of him, I dunno. All I am saying is regardless of this kid intentionally doing anything, he was walking around with a sword, basically looking to use it... AFTER the cops had been and gone. I mean come the feth on, that is straight up weird in my book.
Luna wrote:Thus I Do Not Understand you Seb.
At this point, peace with that fact is about as far as you are going to go, on that trail.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:25:14
2009/09/18 08:24:48
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Let it go Luna. You are full of spunk. I like you. This is kind of getting beaten to death as neither side wants to concede their opinion or points.
You can come to my party Luna. No you can't drink as I'm told you are a minor but come anyway.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 08:27:47
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Fateweaver wrote:Let it go Luna. You are full of spunk. I like you. This is kind of getting beaten to death as neither side wants to concede their opinion or points.
You can come to my party Luna. No you can't drink as I'm told you are a minor but come anyway.
I will , the thing is, i fully understand 2 people's opinion will never match . BUT , he doesnt even understand my point to begin with and he is already going at me from starting of the thread.
Even you get everything i said / intended to say 100% right.
This has actually been quite productive until this last few pages (blame is totally irrelevant at this point), and I would appreciate it staying open for any new developments. There is a LOT of cool insights from everyone here (gore photos... not really necessary, we have all seen Hellraiser 1/2 (3+ not really watchable) I take it), and reviewing the thread could help you clarify any misunderstandings without having to resort to another flame war... which I assume will happen between Luna and Sebster at this point by default, in this thread specifically.
Appreciating the fact that people DO disagree is something that this thread... was kind of made for?
Oh right... cookies on you. All over you, and falling from the sky like candy drops of goodness... MY FRAKKING EYE!!! GODDAMIT....
I have a puppy cookie lodged in my brain, this is interesting... alrighty then...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:30:42
2009/09/18 08:29:48
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Wrexasaur wrote:What I would like to know is if Mr. Rice had a record of violent crimes, I think that would shed at least some light on this. Hiding in the bushes after having cops swarm... then waiting until the guys come back after drinking a few beers or watching a bit of TV? I mean the holes in this are quite profuse, to say the least.
I have seen friends get drunk and start beating the living crap out of eachother, well, not the living crap, but you get what I mean. Taking a real danger (at least in their minds) and adding it into the mix of hormones (and alcohol for all I know) is a recipe for this kind of thing to happen.
Mainly what I would guess (as a possibility mind you) is that the guy was leaving as the student came around the corner, and he panicked, in turn making the kid panic (understandable, truly); unfortunately for Mr. Rice the kid had a katana and he just hit him as soon as he saw him. Maybe the guy came out right in front of him, I dunno. All I am saying is regardless of this kid intentionally doing anything, he was walking around with a sword, basically looking to use it... AFTER the cops had been and gone. I mean come the feth on, that is straight up weird in my book.
Luna wrote:Thus I Do Not Understand you Seb.
At this point, peace with that fact is about as far as you are going to go, on that trail.
Valid point but the kid already gave his story and obviously he was questioned at the station and released after a few hours. Had the cops seen any holes in his story (and it's not hard to find them if you know the right questions to ask and have a trained ear) he'd still be sitting in jail until they got this sorted out.
We only have the students word to go on but nobody can know for sure if he is lying or being honest, except him and God (and of course the police investigating).
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/09/18 08:30:36
Subject: Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
Fateweaver wrote:
What does door type have to do with anything? I'm confuzzled????
The same thing property type has to do with anything; depending on that state of course.
The point is that there's no cut-and-dry condition under which you can absolve yourself of responsibility for killing another human.
LunaHound wrote:
I will , the thing is, i fully understand 2 people's opinion will never match . BUT , he doesnt even understand my point to begin with and he is already going at me from starting of the thread.
Even you get everything i said / intended to say 100% right.
To be fair, even though I think I understand what it is you're getting at, you seem rather extreme with respect to what it is you want to say (sometimes people have the right ot use lethal force in self-defense). Much of what you've posted makes it seems as though you favor outright execution for any spacial violation. Sure, you've contradicted that notion directly, but your other language has made it seem as though the contradiction was disingenuous.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:34:32
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2009/09/18 08:34:18
Subject: Re:Hopkins student practices sword cutting techniques on intruder
fateweaver wrote:We only have the students word to go on but nobody can know for sure if he is lying or being honest, except him and God (and of course the police investigating).
No offense... but I think the police investigating is a teency bit more important... unless of course, the police got that walkie talkie set God promised a while back... hmmm, fool still owes me five dollars come to think of it... or was that Jesus?
Dogma wrote:Sure, you've contradicted that notion directly, but your other language has made it seem as though the contradiction was disingenuous.
On a scale of (no)one to ten(yes) for supporting the death penalty being a more accessible tool, Luna is approximately at 8 from what I have read.
Yes, but maybe not in some situations is indeed a valid opinion. Sticking by your guns (don't shoot!!!) is probably a better idea in a debate that can go as deep as this. Talking about this and that and the thing in the place at the time with the coconut, yeah you remember with the parrot and the hat... meaning a whole lot less than I typed, and a whole lot more what you meant.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/18 08:39:09
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
