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My personal feeling here is that while yes, a long range infantry unit with anti-tank would be a good addition to the codex, I am not sold on any "battle suit" idea entering into the Eldar range. I can't think of anywhere in the fluff where it has been supported (Though I could be missing something, or would this be like Games Workshop's new codex? Adding a unit that previously didn't exist but just shoe horn it in anyways?). I feel as though the battle suit concept should stay where it is most recognized, the tau.

Just looking at it, unless they're limited to squads of 3-5ish I can spam 36" S8 AP1 2W marines out the hoohaw for real cheap. If they're in Elites, you lose a lot out to them. If theyre troops, you lose a lot out to them. If theyre heavy support, you choose between war walkers and them (for the most part) - and war walker multilaser spam is AP6, not AP2 They're balanced, but the amount of long-range firepower they can bring to a given slot is also above the heads of most of the other choices in the codex. It's like adding a Land Raider to a Dark Eldar codex in the sense that it feels out of place and bulky/spamhappy in comparison to the rest of the choices. Just my opinion

I really hope that someone is able to model this to look like an Eldar Baby Carrier ala GK DreadKnight. Guardians on the front of modded Tau BattleSuits would be so cute ^_^
I think it's definitely an interesting addition!

But seriously, those guys give some crazy options. WS5 and I5 with power weapons is nice. Are they gonna stay infantry? I know you mentioned the Jump Infantry but maybe also give them Jetpack choices? Versatility to field them as mobile ranged gun squad or fast attack melee would be great. Maybe you could give them some kind of jump jet type thing that would let them pull extra power from their battlesuit to do special charges, making them have a 12" charge range (like beasts) instead? Maybe 10-15 points just lets you add on a Jetpack that can do the 12" charge? I think it would reflect well on the unit's Eldar Speed and manueverability well. If they are Infantry can they roll in a Wave Serpent?

Speaking of Wave Serpents have you thought about adding an expensive (15-20 point) upgrade to wave serpents to let them have an Assault Ramp (like Land Raiders). Just an idea

Today is ideas day (tomorow will be Battle Report 2)!

So we were thinking a lot about possible changes and improvements and ultimately got these:

- Eldar Fleet: the removing of the "no-assault-no-EF" could realy boost the EF to the point where it can act as a safety-net (And who needs the Kustom Armour Uprade then? I know: noone!). Also it should include a 2+ invulnerable save against wounds from Dangerous Terrain and exploding vehicles. And it should be a basic ability for everyone (except jetbikers, wraith constructs and vehicles).

- Some sort of long-ranged, agile and humbly costed anti-heavy vehicle infantry unit would be sweet. Like the Shadow Specters. The basic image here was Swooping Hawks with 36" range Wraithcannons for 23 ppm.

- The Shadow Asp should be a basic ability for the Asp. For 20 points, and with its limited usefulness, it is rather redundant.

- Proposed changes for the Farseer:
- 100 points basic cost
- Psychic Mastery 2 as a basic ability (2 powers/turn)
- Still only one psychic ability for free
- Upgrade to Psychic Mastery 3 for 35 points, and Psychic Mastery 4 for 70 points
- Spirit Stones allow to cast one psychic power twice in the same turn (no other bonuses).
- Force weapon option
We play tested this version a few times, and experiences are very positive. Not to mention that the 240 points Monster Farseer (PM 4, 4 powers, Spirit Stones) is a damn expensive, damn powerful and damn fluffy selection.

- Proposed Autarch powers (and power changes):
- A power that allows the Eldar player to seize the initative on a 4+
- A power that gives some (or even all) Eldar units Scouts
- Shadow and Dust should work like this: the Eldar player nominates an enemy unit -> he moves that unit D6+1 inches -> on a 4+ nominates another enemy unit and moves that too -> repeats until the 4+ fails or all enemy units are moved. It should also give -1 to enemy reserve rolls and orce the enemy to re-roll the Outflanking arrival table edge.
- Master Strategist should include the "re-roll the Outflanking arrival edge for your units" buff.
- Seer Strike Force should affect Wave Serpents and Asps too.

- An Autarch escort squad of mini-Autarches would be nice. You can even fit in the Autarch weapons this way (as you can upgrade the mini-Autarches with Autarch weapons).

Hope this helps!

Just Dave wrote:
Basically, do peoples think they should be included?
I'm not sold on them to be honest, they're a neat concept and unit all-in-all and definitely something different, but they'll require 2 pages within the 'dex and may not really be needed overall. Thoughts?

Absolutely not. You're already inventing way too much whole cloth.

Thanks guys, I wasn't sold on the idea anyway and you guys have helped me to decide not to include it.

Amanax wrote:Though I could be missing something, or would this be like Games Workshop's new codex? Adding a unit that previously didn't exist but just shoe horn it in anyways?

Yeah, these Codices are basically designed as if they were the next Codex for that army.

felixander wrote:Speaking of Wave Serpents have you thought about adding an expensive (15-20 point) upgrade to wave serpents to let them have an Assault Ramp (like Land Raiders). Just an idea

It's been mentioned by others previously and tbh I don't really like the idea; the lack of assaulting for transports is a good game mechanic and somewhat helps balanced mechanised. Every army and their mothers (minus Tau) would want assault transports on their vehicles, but I don't think that means they should be included. Banshees have had a bone thrown to them here through Acrobatic, but otherwise I'm not sold on the idea of more prevalent assault ramps.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Basically, do peoples think they should be included?
I'm not sold on them to be honest, they're a neat concept and unit all-in-all and definitely something different, but they'll require 2 pages within the 'dex and may not really be needed overall. Thoughts?

Absolutely not. You're already inventing way too much whole cloth.

With a new Codex comes new units. This has been the case for every Codex within 5th Edition.
Of the 3 new units added (excluding special characters), only 1 of these had not had previous mention within the fluff (the Asp) and these additions haven't over-saturated the army list or its size [yet].

Change happens.

AtoMaki wrote:- Eldar Fleet: the removing of the "no-assault-no-EF" could realy boost the EF to the point where it can act as a safety-net (And who needs the Kustom Armour Uprade then? I know: noone!). Also it should include a 2+ invulnerable save against wounds from Dangerous Terrain and exploding vehicles. And it should be a basic ability for everyone (except jetbikers, wraith constructs and vehicles).

I'm happy with Eldar Fleet as it is to be honest; it's a characterful, powerful, but not OP upgrade that really helps the army in a lot of ways.
Furthermore, I'm yet to be convinced of the need for a safety net. I commented on this in detail before and neither you nor anyone else responded to this part of what I said, quoted here for reference:

Just Dave wrote:However, despite my lack of consensus with the above points, I do feel the safety net idea could have credence.
As I said before, one of my key designs with the Codex was to, rather than simply reduce their cost, make units more deserving of their price tag; Howling Banshees are a key example of this. This means that the army retains its emphasis on tactics, rather than simple application of force (Space Marines) or numbers (Imperial Guard); this does however mean that some units retain their arguably high points costs (which I believe are fair, the 'high' refers to the 'safety net' concept) which can be crippled by simple bad luck.
One 'safety net' of sorts that was introduced is itself not wholly reliable (intentionally); Eldar fleet.

However, there are 3 key flaws to the safety net idea IMHO:
1) Is it existent in the existing Eldar Codex? Apparently not.
2) If not, then why is it suddenly existent by units being made better?
3) There are ways around this in itself; unit redundancy, target saturation, application of psychic powers, you name it.
And...) There were some 'safety net' aspects included within the Codex from the start: Eldar Fleet, increased Shuriken Range (without decreased damage output), making units more reliable, increased Ld (Warlocks), Warlock psychic powers (need safety? Cover/Go-to-ground and Conceal. Need speed? Expedite and Eldar Fleet.) and Master Strategist (allowing reserving to avoid Alpha Strikes - your Eldar player could've done with this - and granting flexible special rules such as Stubborn, Counter-Attack and Hit and Run).

However, as I have said, the 'safety net' idea could have credence (although I'm not sold, I admit, for all the above reasons, which there are a fair few of) and I have considered ways around this.
1st, Autarchs (with any Autarch Power) could allow any unit within LoS to re-roll a single Eldar Fleet D6.
2nd, An ability similar to Athairiel's Skien of Command could be implemented; with a rune allowing this to work with Warlocks within LoS, whilst Autarchs could get the above ability and the Avatar makes all units within LoS fearless. But then Athairiel would need a boost of his own, which could be it applying to Exarchs and not requiring LoS.

And you'll now be able to add more prevalent Haywires to the existent safety-net aspects.

- Some sort of long-ranged, agile and humbly costed anti-heavy vehicle infantry unit would be sweet. Like the Shadow Specters. The basic image here was Swooping Hawks with 36" range Wraithcannons for 23 ppm.

I've already got a planned solution to an extent here, without needing to create a new unit; through granting Eldar Jetbikes a longer-ranged anti-tank option.

- The Shadow Asp should be a basic ability for the Asp. For 20 points, and with its limited usefulness, it is rather redundant.

Yeah, I'd thought about this before and considered it, but ultimately forgot about it!
It's a fair point though, so will become a basic ability.

- Proposed changes for the Farseer:

Well the next upgrade will allow the Farseer to cast 3 a turn, so that's already covered. The Clarion Blade is intended to fulfil a force-weapon like ability, effectively granting a Farseer greater 'oomph' in close combat, but is intentionally somewhat limited by his existent low number of attacks - something that can itself be countered via Battleseer.

- Proposed Autarch powers (and power changes):
- A power that allows the Eldar player to seize the initative on a 4+
- A power that gives some (or even all) Eldar units Scouts
- Shadow and Dust should work like this: the Eldar player nominates an enemy unit -> he moves that unit D6+1 inches -> on a 4+ nominates another enemy unit and moves that too -> repeats until the 4+ fails or all enemy units are moved. It should also give -1 to enemy reserve rolls and orce the enemy to re-roll the Outflanking arrival table edge.
- Master Strategist should include the "re-roll the Outflanking arrival edge for your units" buff.
- Seer Strike Force should affect Wave Serpents and Asps too.

I'm not sure I see the reasoning for these changes.
In the official Codex Master Strategist is a good ability. In my Codex it has been improved in two ways; granting USR's to help units where needed and improving the reserves modifier to work both ways, improving flexibility and control.
What you're suggesting would fairly significantly improve the power of all Autarch powers. The Autarch powers are intended to provide a level of customisation/theme and specialisation that the more-flexible Master Strategist doesn't and I don't see the need for an all-round power boost or re-working to these rules.
Regarding Seer Strike Force, it intentionally only affects light vehicles, linking to the Ulthwe Strike Force from EoT. Whilst granting BS/WS4 to so many units for no additional cost is already a powerful - potentially too powerful - ability.

- An Autarch escort squad of mini-Autarches would be nice. You can even fit in the Autarch weapons this way (as you can upgrade the mini-Autarches with Autarch weapons).

I don't really see the need or justification for this idea to be honest, game-wise, theme-wise or fluff-wise.
You'd have to elaborate if you want this included or you may yourself want to post it as a separate thread in proposed rules.


-----------


As ever, all feedback and constructive criticism is welcome.

Reading through it right now...Looks great so far!

Oh, and in the 1st page I was offering out 'Internet Cookies' for anyone who got some of the little references I dotted throughout the Codex, here's the explained list:

Cookies remaining for getting the following references (without using google!):

- Furious Angels: This is a song by a little-known guy called Rob Dougan. It's a great track and the instrumental version of which is in The Matrix
- Burning Fist: An exarch power from the old Codex, now granted to Tamarelle'Eve, albeit with different effects. Also, Tamarelle'Eve's name is 'inspired' by my sisters name.
- Althenian Fireblade: Althenian is mentioned in Iyanna's background in the old Eldar Codex, as once being a Fire Dragons Exarch. Iron Guardian's is also an old name for Wraithlords.
- Siren Mirror: Siren Mirror is briefly mentioned in Path of the Seer, in the opening italics of one of the chapters. White Guardians (a Warp Spider Exarch Power) is also a name given for Warp Spiders - not the aspect - in Path of the Seer.
- Shadows and Dust: Cookie got by thakabalpuphorsefishguy. This is a line from the [awesome] Gladiator movie.
- Slicing Orbs of Zandros: Cookie got by Mahtamori. This is referenced under the Sundering Sentinels.
- Crystal Dragons: Cookie got by Mahtamori. This is an aspect unit briefly mentioned in Path of a Warrior

- Oh, and 'Hell Hath No Fury', the special rule for the Howling Banshees, is a reference to the phrase 'Hell Hath No Fury Like a Woman Scorned/Woman's Scorn'.

I suspect there's other references within the Codex, but none spring to mind right now.

I do however, have to ask why Wraithlords are no longer bolter immune? The scariest thing to me about wraithlords was that 90% of my arsenal as a tyranid player couldn't manage more than a 6+ to wound.

Just Dave wrote:

felixander wrote:Speaking of Wave Serpents have you thought about adding an expensive (15-20 point) upgrade to wave serpents to let them have an Assault Ramp (like Land Raiders). Just an idea

It's been mentioned by others previously and tbh I don't really like the idea; the lack of assaulting for transports is a good game mechanic and somewhat helps balanced mechanised. Every army and their mothers (minus Tau) would want assault transports on their vehicles, but I don't think that means they should be included. Banshees have had a bone thrown to them here through Acrobatic, but otherwise I'm not sold on the idea of more prevalent assault ramps.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Basically, do peoples think they should be included?
I'm not sold on them to be honest, they're a neat concept and unit all-in-all and definitely something different, but they'll require 2 pages within the 'dex and may not really be needed overall. Thoughts?

Absolutely not. You're already inventing way too much whole cloth.

With a new Codex comes new units. This has been the case for every Codex within 5th Edition.
Of the 3 new units added (excluding special characters), only 1 of these had not had previous mention within the fluff (the Asp) and these additions haven't over-saturated the army list or its size [yet].

Change happens.

Uuuhhh Everyone and their mother already HAS vehicles that you can assault from except Tau and IG (ok and Chaos Daemons and Tyranids don't, but they don't have transport vehicles except SporePod). All the MEQ have Land Raiders and some have Storm Raven too. Orks have... well... everything is an assault vehicle. Same with Dark Eldar. Even NECRONS have a vehicle they can assault from! However, I forgot the changes to Acrobatics and think that mostly covers it, though I think it would be good as it makes foot seer councils more viable. But I agree that it's not as terribly needed as I originally thought.

And I agree that the codex should be more of just a change in the existing models but add in some new ones. Coming from 2nd ED codex to 4th I've only seen models LOST. We no longer have Corsairs, Exodite/Dinosaur riders, Harlequin Jetbikers or Solitaires. And we've lost a lot of customization (I want my Guardians with Power fists back! Hahaha) and some cool options (Vypers being able to transport an Independent Character amongst them) What have we gained? Yriel and a one new weapon loadout of the Fire Prism... Wave Serpents weren't in the codex but were usable (as we had them in Epic) and were a very minor change from the Falcon, so that's debatable as to whether or not it is a big change.
SOOOOO I think it is time we got some new units. If they released a codex without at least one new unit that'd just be unforgivable! I think the codex could survive with a single new unit, but much more would definitely be overloading it.

The problem with Autarch powers is that they are somwhat unbalanced: we have the force multiplier powers (Swordwind, Seer Strike Force, Armoured Consort), the mind-way situational power (Master Strategist) and the 'meh' pack (everything else). The last power are only taken for thematical armies, the middle power is only taken when the player has a cunning plan or runs 2 Autarches and a player would spend extra points to take two from the first powers, because they are that good.

And we don't think that not in-built safety-nets could provide anything: yes, your army could be played safely with Unit X and/or Setup Y, but this only makes Unit X/Setup Y essentially important. Not to mention that not all players want to play with Unit X/Setup Y.

And today is BR day:

Battle Report 02 (original version)

The game was Spearhead, Capture and Control, 1750 points, opposing Chaos Space Marines (a wicked tourny list)

The Eldar army:

Farseer (Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones)
Autarch (Armoured Consort, Fusion Gun, Tanglefoot Grenades)
Fire Dragons 4+Exarch (Crack Shot)
Falcon (Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Fields)
Fire Dragons 4+Exarch (Crack Shot) - Autarch was here
Falcon (Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Fields)
Dire Avengers 4+Exarch (Bladestorm) - Farseer was here
Falcon (Shuriken Cannon, Holo-Fields)
Guardian Jetbike Squadron x3 (Shuriken Cannon)
Guardian Jetbike Squadron x3 (Shuriken Cannon)
Guardian Jetbike Squadron x3 (Shuriken Cannon)
Asp (TL D-Cannon, Holo-Fields)
War Walkers x2 (4x Starcannons, 2x Power Diversion Matrices)
Fire Prism (Holo-Fields, Power Diversion Matrix)
Fire Prism (Holo-Fields, Power Diversion Matrix)

The Chaos Space Marine army:

Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Wings)
Daemon Prince (Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Wings)
Plague Marines 4+Champion (2x Plasma Guns, Power Fist)
Rhino
Plague Marines 4+Champion (2x Meltaguns, Power Fist)
Rhino
Plague Marines 4+Champion (2x Flamers, Power Fist)
Rhino
Plague Marines x5 (Plasma Gun, Personal Icon)
Obliterators Cult x3
Obliterators Cult x3
Obliterators Cult x3

The battlefield was rather flat, but provided lots of cover in the shape of craters and small GW corner-ruins. The middle-left side had a big but low hill (around the height of an infantry model) and that was all the LoS blocking.

The Eldar player won the roll-off to choose deployment zone, and he chosed the lower-left corner. Objectives were placed in the middle of the deployment zones. The Eladr army was deployed around its objective in a tight formation to provide cover to each other. The CSM forces were set up much looser, with the Obliterators on the flanks, the Princes in the center and the Rhinos/PMs between them. The CSM failed to seize the initative.

Eldar turn 1:
The Farseer casted Guide on the War Walkers and Fortuned the Asp. The later turbo-boosted towars the CSM's right side, while the Falcons moved slightly left/forward. In the Shooting phase, the combined Eldar firepower brought down one Obliterator and wounded another. The plasma PM's Rhino also exploded, killing a PM.

CSM turn 1:
Everything rushed forward. The Obliterators eliminated both FD Falcons (one suffered a Wrecked, the other (with the autarch) was Immoblised/Stunned). The Princes lashed the freshly bailed out Fire Dragons into charge range and wiped them out in the Assault phase.

Eldar turn 2:
Not so much movement, mostly minor positioning. The Asp and the Fire Prisms finished off the damaged Obliterator Cult, the War Walkers destroyed the flamer PM's Rhino and the Jetbikes/Avenger Falcon put two wounds on one of the Daemon Princes.

CSM turn 2:
Still moving towards the Eldar objective with everything. The Obliterators turn the Asp into scrap wraithbone (Immo+Armament Destroyed) and Shook one of the Fire Prisms. The Princes lash one of the Jetbike squadrons into assault and kill it without problem.

Eldar turn 3:
The Autarch and his Fire Dragons hop out from their Falcon to intercept the melta PM squad and their Rhino. The War Walkers eliminate the wounded Prince, but the other survives the combined fire of the Fire Prism and the Jetbikes unscatched. Pulse Laser shots from the Falcons kill one Obliterator. The Autarch and his squad blasts their Rhino sky-high, but they lose 2 FDs from the explosion and fail their morale test! Doh!

CSM turn 3:
The Obliterators focus-fire the Avenger's Falcon but they do only minor damage. The Daemon Prince assaults the War Walkers, but he only destroys one. The melta PMs slaughter the fleeing Fire Dragons with shooting/assault, but the Autarch survives, and Hit&Run out of combat.

Eldar turn 4:
Mostly shooting happens, mostly against the advancing PMs. Both the melta and the flamer squad takes heavy casualties (because they're Doomed!). Also, the Eldar army now shifts towards the CSM objective, as the Eldar one is kinda' lost. The Daemon Prince destroys his War Walker easily.

CSM turn 4:
Knowing that the Eldar objective is theirs if they can reach it, the CSM forces tried to destroy the Eldar anti-MEQ firepower. And thankfully to a good S&P roll, they do it. So they knock out both Fire Prisms. To add to the insult, the Daemon Prince lashes the Autarch into charge distance, and kills him off for good.

Eldar turn 5:
As the end drew near, the Eldar moved in to capture the CSM objective. With a crazy shooting rollfest, the Avengers kill four PMs from the home-guard squad (the one without Rhino). Pulse Laser shots also finish the melta PM squad (the closes PM squad to the objective). The Jetbikes try to intercept the flamer PM squad (now only consisting 2 models), but they fail to odo any damage. In Assault, the Avengers clear the CSM objective.

CSM turn 5:
Everything shoots the Dire Avengers. The Daemon Prince tries to lash them out from cover, but the Runes of Warding are warding, so he fails the psychic test. Then, thankfully to Fortune and GtG, the Dire Avengers survive (though the Farseer dies).

The players rolled for turn 6, and the dice said "No". 1-0 to the Eldar!

Aftergame analysis was mostly "Farseers! I want four of them!". That guy literally won the day with Fortune and Doom, making the Autarch a 80 points army-wide special rule on two legs. So yes, this BR is about the "Farseer dominance", and not the safety-net. Because the psychic powers are so good, but their range is so limited, than the only way to have a good coverage is to bring 2 Farseers. But if you bring 2 Farseers, then there will be no place for the other HQ selections...

I'm going to update the Codex with some new changes later (today hopefully), but otherwise I'm going to leave it be and drop out of the thread for a while; I feel like I have too many demands/requests coming in and people trying to take this in different directions that it may somewhat cloud my thoughts. I want to step back for a bit, leave the Codex as it is for a while and then come back hopefully as 'objective' as possible and as I usually try to be.

People are obviously welcome to post feedback/comments/whatever here in the meantime, but I shan't be responding for a while unless it's particularly pressing, for the reasons above.



Two more notes:
1 - The Flier: still not sure whether I want to include one or not. It's a probably and will be re-examined after my brief break.

2 - The 'safety net': as it stands, this is not going to be included/changed.

Ultimately, whilst I've stated repeatedly that there may be a need for it and I can understand the reasoning behind the suggestion, I have still yet to see anything that adequately explains the flaws I've pointed out with theory (spoilered below, again for reference) or that - if such a flaw does exist - it cannot be countered by smart play or list building. Furthermore, it is in the Eldar nature to be a somewhat fragile, elite army that requires smart play and I'm yet to see that this is negatively-imbalanced.

Some may say I'm being stubborn, but I would say I am simply trying to be objective.
Finally, I would rather something was underpowered, than overpowered.

Kain wrote:Reading through it right now...Looks great so far!

Thanks man, much appreciated!

Kain wrote:I do however, have to ask why Wraithlords are no longer bolter immune? The scariest thing to me about wraithlords was that 90% of my arsenal as a tyranid player couldn't manage more than a 6+ to wound.

This change was mainly made due to the otherwise complete lack of T8 within 40K these days.
The Wraithlord is still much more durable than before, with 2 extra wounds, but now it fits more with the modern game and is more fair for some armies, such as Tyranids, as you now don't have to rely on that 10% to take him out...
Ultimately, I think also that if your opponent is going to use his bolters against a wraithlord than your infantry, so be it.

felixander wrote:Uuuhhh Everyone and their mother already HAS vehicles that you can assault from except Tau and IG (ok and Chaos Daemons and Tyranids don't, but they don't have transport vehicles except SporePod). All the MEQ have Land Raiders and some have Storm Raven too. Orks have... well... everything is an assault vehicle. Same with Dark Eldar. Even NECRONS have a vehicle they can assault from! However, I forgot the changes to Acrobatics and think that mostly covers it, though I think it would be good as it makes foot seer councils more viable. But I agree that it's not as terribly needed as I originally thought.

That's very true, but I think there's a big difference between a 265pts Land Raider, a 50pts Raider and a 110pts Waveserpent, in that a Waveserpent would be the premier assault vehicle of the three if the option was there IMHO.
Being fast with AV12 and an energy field, it would be a very powerful assault vehicle, possibly too powerful I suspect.
I agree with what you're saying, but an Assault-capable Waveserpent isn't really something I would like to see, nor would I imagine your opponent!

AtoMaki wrote:Battle Report 02 (original version)

Thanks for the bat-rep Ato', it's really appreciated.

Ultimately, that kind of game is what I like to see; both players took powerful lists and it was a close game all-round. I think that the Eldar player managed to win despite apparent bad luck (with your AV12 Holofield tanks dying all over the place it seems) is a testament to the player and/or the balance-to-power of the Codex.

Again thanks.
If I may make a request/suggestion of sorts, it would be that he may wish to try out Athairiel next game? He provides a unique game mechanic and the range for psychic powers that is desired, and may be the direction I take should I decide to implement the 'safety net' concept.
Otherwise, Runes of Emanation can provide some desired range.

So, Justdave, I'm starting a war with you apparently. haha

Just Dave wrote:

felixander wrote:Speaking of Wave Serpents have you thought about adding an expensive (15-20 point) upgrade to wave serpents to let them have an Assault Ramp (like Land Raiders). Just an idea

It's been mentioned by others previously and tbh I don't really like the idea; the lack of assaulting for transports is a good game mechanic and somewhat helps balanced mechanised. Every army and their mothers (minus Tau) would want assault transports on their vehicles, but I don't think that means they should be included. Banshees have had a bone thrown to them here through Acrobatic, but otherwise I'm not sold on the idea of more prevalent assault ramps.

If that ever changes, I'll just drop something here that I suggested once on Warseer: a conditional Assault Ramp rule that only allows the transported unit to assault a unit Tank Shocked by the transport. This would make the assault more dangerous - as you're opening yourself up to Death or Glory attacks - but would represent the use of the Wave Serpent's energy field to disrupt an enemy unit long enough for the infantry to disembark uncontested.

Updated.

Catch you later guys and gals.

A cheapo 1500 list for giggles; should be able to get first turn assault on a bunch of opponents, while keeping nimble and holding your base.


Farseer - 75
+Singing Spear - 78
+Spirit Stones - 108
+Runes of witnessing - 123
Doom + Fortune - 138
Runes of Scoring - 143

10 Howling Banshees - 175
Mirrorswords - 185
Haywire Grenades - 205
Wave Serpent - 295
Spirit Stones - 305

6 Fire Dragons - 111
Wave Serpent - 201
Lance - 226
Diversion - 231
x2 = 462

10 Rangers - 180
x2 = 360

Out of idle curiosity, will this fandex be updated to 6th edition? If so just for compatibility or thoroughly?

For those interested, I have also created a Space Marine Codex, available here.

Mahtamori wrote:Out of idle curiosity, will this fandex be updated to 6th edition? If so just for compatibility or thoroughly?

Yep. Once/if I get the rulebook...

More for compatibility I'd imagine to be honest, the Codex has been updated rules and character-wise, so any further changes I make will probably be to keep it working for in 6th Edition. May also depend how much needs changing...

AlexHolker wrote:If that ever changes, I'll just drop something here that I suggested once on Warseer: a conditional Assault Ramp rule that only allows the transported unit to assault a unit Tank Shocked by the transport. This would make the assault more dangerous - as you're opening yourself up to Death or Glory attacks - but would represent the use of the Wave Serpent's energy field to disrupt an enemy unit long enough for the infantry to disembark uncontested.

That is a very neat idea man, kudos! If I go through with this, then I may certainly include it... Nice idea man!

Celtic Strike wrote:So, Justdave, I'm starting a war with you apparently. haha

So I've heard...

I've also heard that you believe I went for too much "duality" in units and it's not very "Eldar-y", which I'd like to hear more about if you'd want to...

FWIW, minus the recent inclusion of more prevalent Haywires, most [Aspect] units have maintained their specialisation, minus Swooping Hawks who needed a fairly dramatic change, and Dark Reapers, who also needed a fairly drastic change. Some units, such as Shining Spears, can operate in other roles as well, but this is only possible through an Exarch Power.
In a combination of things I've said previously:

"My general design ethos for this Codex has been to keep to the very spirit of Eldar gameplay; with specialised units, high manoeuvrability, small numbers and impressive technology, with powerful psykers to boot. This means the Eldar is an army with relatively few models, but some very powerful – if fragile – specialised units and equipment, that lack versatility; keeping with the emphasis on coordinated, strategic play style. Almost everything has identifiable strengths and weaknesses. With the Eldar, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"
"one of my key designs with the Codex was to, rather than simply reduce their cost, make units more deserving of their price tag; Howling Banshees are a key example of this. This means that the army retains its emphasis on tactics, rather than simple application of force (Space Marines) or numbers (Imperial Guard); this does however mean that some units retain their arguably high points costs"

To check, are people using the Codex and/or would like it updated for 6th Edition?

If so, I can start thinking about updates now, but otherwise I don't want to update it if no-one will care, as I'm sure you can understand!

Yeah, I use a fairly jinky bansheespam on vassal, where I actually have access to eldar models. If you don't update it, though, it shouldn't be that hard to cope by porting eldar updates to justdavar.

With the tragic FAQ for Eldar I do think this codex deserves an update. That, and from hearsay the Dark Eldar codex as well

Mahtamori wrote:With the tragic FAQ for Eldar I do think this codex deserves an update. That, and from hearsay the Dark Eldar codex as well

Yeah, with how long it'll probably be 'til Eldar get a 6th Edition Codex, it may well be worth updating this for 6th.
Although, I'm not getting the Rulebook until the starter set, if at all...

Would you mind elaborating upon why you feel Eldar have been cut-short, so I can see where to try and address?

As it stands, some of my intended changes:
- Eldar Power Weapons are AP2 on a to-hit roll of 6 (and to-wound?).
- Holofields cheaper and grant +1 to cover saves: so 4+ for skimmers, 3+ for flat-out.
- Eldar Fortifications: Probably a shield generator at least.
- Bonesinger repairs Hull Points.
- Fit in some skyfire somewhere. Anyone with the rulebook, is there any listed for the Eldar there?
- Some other crap when I think of it.

I'm in the same boat regarding the rulebook, but there's some fixes that's been dying to happen ever since 5th edition was released (which for the most part you've fixed) but also a lot of other stuff. It's clear that GW doesn't really care about balancing older codexes since new ones are in the making.

Now, the problem will be to talk about fixes for your book rather than GW's. No Skyfire for any Eldar units by the way.

First among the illogicalness is Eldrad. He generates 5 Eldar powers but only 4 generic powers? In your codex that would be 7 powers.

What do you say about Holo-fields forcing only glancing hits?

Could make a +0 pts weapon upgrade which allows a weapon to Skyfire, though only allows Snap Fire on ground targets.

Now, psychic powers need to get an overhaul. Like I wrote, I don't have the rulebook and we'll see how long I can hold out for a small one. Essentially Divination has a few powers that are Eldar powers, but better. Guide is obsolete. Also, the new format seems to be 7 powers, one of which is a Primaris Power (you may substitute one of your generated powers with this power).
The Divination Primaris is a 12" Guide that works in CC, by the way. Power number 5 is a Guide + Fourtune + Doom for the psycher only.

Since the Psychers were buffed so much, we'll need to, again, make the Autarch not suck. The Warlord trait tables could make for an interesting. Since the Eldar army is about synergy, what about the Autarch rolling once for each table (there's three of them) instead of choosing a table?

Also, generally speaking, Farseer mastery levels need a look at. It feels wrong to have them sit at the same levels as monkeys. I'd love to see Warlocks be the ones with Mastery 1 and have the Warlocks generally common independent characters. I know I know, personal wet dream.

Oh and Witchblades got their AT nerfed.

--

I guess what I'm most annoyed at is that they haven't fixed the obvious errors:
* Intercept - what us is it? Why do you keep a clarification in the FAQ?
* Surprise Assault - why haven't they fixed/removed it yet?
* Bladestorm - and what about defensive fire? Wouldn't it be obvious this issue would come up? Keep in mind that it's bloody expensive!

Yeah, all we gotta do is work in the FireStorm turret from FW. Not that we should be fitting in more FW stuff but it seems like the most reasonable answer. Until then I am going to have to buy a Flakk Gun and run an Aegis Defense line with every army!

felixander wrote:Yeah, all we gotta do is work in the FireStorm turret from FW. Not that we should be fitting in more FW stuff but it seems like the most reasonable answer. Until then I am going to have to buy a Flakk Gun and run an Aegis Defense line with every army!

Or just simply add the flakk missile to the EML either as a basic fire mode or an option.

And yeah, this 'dex got a major hit from 6th ed. The escape options are narrowed, some of the attack options in the codex are now non-existant, and the general vehicle nerf hurts better than anything. But hey, at least Support Batteries became viable !

Here's a few thoughts, naturally coloured by my wish for proper Warlock psychers, regarding HQ.

Farseer. Psychic Mastery level 2. Roughly the cost of a Farseer with spirit stones & 1 or 2 powers. Spirit Stones increase to PM3. Access to Divination, Telepathy and Eldar (which is a slightly more mixed Blessing / Witchfire mastery)

Warlock. Psychic Mastery level 1, LD9, Ghost Helm. Roughly the cost of Warlock with 2 powers. Reduce max squad size of council. Access to Divination and Pyromancy. Scrap Warlock.

Autarch. While stratagems are nice, GW has implemented Warlord Traits. Suggestion: Autarch if present must be Warlord. Warlord Autarch gets one of each trait, non-Warlord Autarch (2nd Autarch) get one single trait.

Phoenix Lords. Less focus on getting as many as possible (3 Phoenix Lords present at a battle signifies a very, very, serious threat to a major craftworld) and more focus on these being SC-hunters. Decent to great dueling traits and better ability to single stuff out for shooting PLs.
Due to dueling in CC, these guys actually have a place - especially Jain and Karandras.

Avatar. Well. He's great as is in the codex now. Actually, he's bloody cheap for what he does in the codex. He's a 200 point model for 155 more or less.

Yes, this would mean that Eldar get a lot of proper psychers running around and a standard non-SC HQ with a psychic level at the same strength as Mephiston etc, but without the physical prowess those guys have. Isn't that what's in Eldar's CV?
Oh, and LD9 psychers do work, as long as they are inexpensive. Remember that a Warlock is still W1 and that Witchblades are less multi-purpose now! Not to mention that Witchfire psychics get lower BS.

P.s. if there's anything specific you want to know to make a better fandex, Dave, I can PM you. I accidentally bought the book.

P.p.s. Eldar fleet needs a look at. Fleet actually describes mobility well now, and Eldar Fleet doesn't mesh well with other assault-phase movement in 6th. Also, Skilled Rider is very potent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Swooping Hawks to follow the same rules as Flying Monstrous Creature minus Relentless & minus fire-two-weapons?
(Two modes of transportation, one is jump infantry the other is faster flying with special rules and hard-to-hit)

I love this codex, But will there be a update for 6th edition soon? I know it must be a task to update this, but I would love to see it

Here's another thought on Swooping Hawks:
As standard they have Skyfire. Exarch power Intercept allows them to additionally assault flying targets. Lasblasters 18" S3 AP3 Assault 1 Haywire (and renamed, 'cuase it's not a laser anymore).

Simply put, give Craftworlders a slightly more unique anti-air unit. The risk is that Fire Dragons will be out of a job with these faster and more vehicle-killy things.

Hi...

So, any news about a 6th edition update for this fandex? Because it would be really-really great !

Maybe in a couple of months. I'm really not a fan of 6th Edition at present, so I have no real motivation to speak of but for the fans/users of these 'dexs.
Honestly though, at this stage I can't guarantee an update will ever be forthcoming, but I'd like to think I'd find the motivation to at some point.