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**AWesker1976**

JWhex wrote:
the whole Bloodtide fluff abomination

What's wrong with the Bloodtide fluff?

**Lynata**

AWesker1976 wrote:google "Khornate Knights"

Exactly the kind of hyperbole I was referring to. Thank you for this example.

The worst thing is, there are actually fans who pick this up and believe it as-is.

**Cheesecat**

Lynata wrote:
It may actually be better if they're kept out of the game. I've always been of the opinion that such things should either be done correctly, or not at all.

JWhex wrote:
the whole Bloodtide fluff abomination
What's wrong with the Bloodtide fluff?

The idea that rubbing the blood of a sister of battle on your armour and weapons in order to protect yourself is too strange for me and clashes with the idea on how imperials usually do rituals (would make more sense for a chaos or dark eldar character) which is usually through strength of

character, artifacts, prayer, sermons, etc.

**Lynata**

Ah, yes. It certainly is a bit unorthodox, albeit more towards the Grey Knights than the Sisters of Battle, and I'd agree it did change their portrayal quite a bit - like the rest of the GK's new Codex with all those sorcery bits.

Still, the Grey Knights certainly aren't "Imperials" by the common definition, which would include adherence to the Imperial Creed. I mean, there's way older fluff on quite a number of Space Marine Chapters who gain strength by eating the flesh of their enemies (or at least that's what they believe). The Sons of Malice were excommunicated for this. The GK just have the Inquisition's special carte-blanche.

"Do what must be done" is a strong theme with the Grey Knights, now more than ever, so they don't shy back from anything. Not even from killing allies and harvesting their blood, if it helps them accomplish their mission against the Ruinous Powers.

**Melissia**

Let's not get bogged down in a debate on that trashy little piece of writing and instead get bogged down in a debate on this trashy little piece of game.

I'd prefer they went the Guild Wars 2 route and just sold the damned thing in a box.

**nomotog**

Melissia wrote:
Let's not get bogged down in a debate on that trashy little piece of writing and instead get bogged down in a debate on this trashy little piece of game.

I'd prefer they went the Guild Wars 2 route and just sold the damned thing in a box.

When it comes to F2P the box thing always puzzles me. I mean the point of F2P is to try before you buy. When you have to buy the box, you don't really get to try and I wonder how that stacks up number wise with actual F2P.

**Lynata**

Oh, there is a mandatory box purchase involved now? I suppose that means that the term F2P does no longer apply, and it's rather a "Premium" thing now.

It's certainly an interesting concept. Other MMOs did box purchase + subscription fee before, and yet others had no box purchase, but a subscription fee for "premium" access and limitations for free players.
So why not do a hybrid of box purchase + subscription or limited account?

(I'd assume this isn't a new thing either, I just can't recall a game that did something like this before)

**SagesStone**

I think that's how boxes work for FTP. You get an exclusive (as an added incentive) and premium time for the money.

**Enigwolf**

Quite frankly, the love-hate relationship he seems to have with the F2P players reminds me too much of Zynga's model. 90% of their revenue stream is derived from 10% of their players, and 10% of their revenue stream is from 90% of their players.

I'm starting to see a lot of influences from other games, in terms of concept and ideas, as well as modus operandi. This guy essentially wants to pull the best features from other games that have been successful and toss them together, it sounds like.

**Melissia**

n0t_u wrote:
I think that's how boxes work for FTP. You get an exclusive (as an added incentive) and premium time for the money.

Depends on the game.

For games like Guild Wars 2, you buy the game, and you don't ever have to pay subscription fees.

For games like WoW, you buy the game and get X number of months subscription.

**JakeCWolf**

So this ones going the "Freemium" route eh?

Well expect rampant power abuse and entire servers being owned by clans of deep pocked douche bags who throw hundreds of dollars to win every conflict...

I know paying to play sounds like a drag, but honestly if everyone is paying to play the game, that means everyone is starting on a level playing field, no amount of real life currency can help them win any one fight, only keep playing the game as whole.

**AlexHolker**

Developer Interview wrote:"As an example we won’t have the Sisters of Battle at launch. We love them, but the reason why they won’t be playable at launch is because it’s almost impossible to make the kind of power they have fit the lore and make it fun at the same time. They always end up being killed by their own team because their pure blood is useful to defeat demons. It’s very difficult to implement that kind of sacrifice in the gameplay and still make it fun to play as a character."

HATE.

Lynata wrote:
JWhex wrote:
the whole Bloodtide fluff abomination
What's wrong with the Bloodtide fluff?

It is stupid, offensive, uninteresting and destructive.

It is stupid because slaughtering loyalists and daubing your armour in their blood should not be a vulnerability for a fething Bloodthirster. It's like creating a new Great Unclean One character whose only weakness is the bubonic plague.

It is offensive because it is a disrespectful treatment of the Sisters of Battle, both as women and as another playable faction. It's bad for the same reason having everyone and their dog kill an Avatar is bad writing - contributing to a collaborative work carries the obligation to not gak all over everyone else's work.

It is uninteresting because externalising the sacrifice of the Grey Knights diminishes them. I liked the Grey Knights as something more and something less than human - immune to the predations of daemons because they had cut away everything that makes a person vulnerable, but leaving them less than people. Ward ruined that by making everyone else pay the price instead, while the Grey Knights conduct blood rituals, carry daemon weapons and associate with daemonhosts with impunity.

And it is destructive because it gives people like that developer stupid, offensive, uninteresting ideas.

**Troike**

Damn, just read this. The stuff he said about the Sisters was... Worrying, to say the least.

Though on the bright side, he did pretty much say that if they were implemented, they'd be their own faction. And obviously they're not going to spill their own damn blood to fight daemons.

Hopefully the blood thing was just an on-the-spot ass-pull.

That aside, I'm tentatively enthusiastic for it. I like that he said the combat would be a bit like Space Marine. Would be really interesting to have that sort of gameplay against hordes of player-controlled enemies.

**aosol**

I'm interested in seeing areas being fleshed out and playing a dirt bag Eldar Rogue.

**Troike**

AlexHolker wrote:
It is uninteresting because externalising the sacrifice of the Grey Knights diminishes them. I liked the Grey Knights as something more and something less than human - immune to the predations of daemons because they had cut away everything that makes a person vulnerable, but leaving them less than people.

If you're an SoB fan displeased with the bloodtide, this is actually one very positive thing that you can take away from it. Some of the Sisters were actually so pure as to be immune, while the Knights needed to rely on a ritual to gain that same immunity.

If you're a GK fan, not so much I guess. Honestly I find it odd that they weren't just immune like some of the Sisters, since Knights are fluffed as the very most incorruptible.

**Melissia**

JakeCWolf wrote:
So this ones going the "Freemium" route eh?

Well expect rampant power abuse and entire servers being owned by clans of deep pocked douche bags who throw hundreds of dollars to win every conflict...

I know paying to play sounds like a drag, but honestly if everyone is paying to play the game, that means everyone is starting on a level playing field, no amount of real life currency can help them win any one fight, only keep playing the game as whole.

Yeah, but this d-bag says, specifically, that his company doesn't care about balance and they will not balance the game.

**Enigwolf**

Melissia wrote:
JakeCWolf wrote:
So this ones going the "Freemium" route eh?

Well expect rampant power abuse and entire servers being owned by clans of deep pocked douche bags who throw hundreds of dollars to win every conflict...

I know paying to play sounds like a drag, but honestly if everyone is paying to play the game, that means everyone is starting on a level playing field, no amount of real life currency can help them win any one fight, only keep playing the game as whole.
Yeah, but this d-bag says, specifically, that his company doesn't care about balance and they will not balance the game.

Because imbalance makes people want to throw more money at the system to win. So, yeah, it's a pay-to-win game. At least he's being honest with it lol.

**Melissia**

Or it makes them decide to play a different game instead because they're bored.

**BryllCream**

Melissa can you provide a list of mmorpgs that were balanced on release?

**Lynata**

Alright, so I got extra nerdy and actually e-mailed them. They've asked me to pass on their responses to you folks.

David, your Creative director and Brent lead gameplay love the Sisters!!

My explanation to the media was very simple and made for the mass market and not for the true fans of the IP.

All races and chapters in the IP COULD be playable by the players except Tyranids which have a hivemind (play by us the studio :-) )

But, Necron and Sisters, if we want to be true to the IP will be made for ''skilled'' players since they have a lot of depth and complexity to them.

Like you said, the first 4 races we selected, so far, are everybody's favorite number 2, which make them a good overall selection.

Please convey to the real fans on the forum that we are making THEIR game but that not everybody knows the IP like they do and we all want (including them) to have enough players in the game to make it fun and for the game to last.... Eternal!!!! :-) so in interview I try not to be too Hardcore with my explanation.

The team and I play the tabletop everyweek and we have more than 10k$ worth of army at the office.... We will post some pictures soon (when we are done painting them)

I wished you lived in Montreal..... We have thousand to paints!! ;-)

Anyway, for now, we have to trust Eldars to bring Sexiness to the game.... Then again I find Orcs sexy too!! Lol

Only through death does duty ends!

Miguel

-- Miguel Caron, Head of Studio, Online Games division

Like Miguel said Sisters of the battle were in the initial list with Tau and Imperial guard, when we had to select the ones we will launch with.

We had to make tough choices for the 4 initial factions, but please don’t despair, our post-launch plan is to bring more factions into the war.

Sisters of Battle are among the first batch we want to add.

We did select Space-Marines, Orks, Eldar and Chaos Space-Marines because of their popularity mainly and because they are iconic factions of the 40k universe.

For the Sisters of Battle, I agree with you they are not too far from female space marines without the body enhancements coming from the gene seeds of the Adeptus Astartes.

Giving that option for the players of the Imperium was really seducing for us but the implicit implication of the inquisition in the conflict at this point was too much of a constraint for us.

As you well know if we say too much about Chaos and the Inquisition then Exterminatus may follow! But I already said too much… J

Please say hello to the Dakkadakka forum folks for us!

They always have been a great source of information for our regular battles. In case of a disagreement about a point of rule we are checking Dakkadakka before to take a decision.

Thanks for the links by the way (I didn’t know that the Sisters deployed 10 Companies/Preceptories during the wars of Armageddon and 19 during the 13th black Crusade).

Cheers!

David

PS: I am curious, without the Sisters of battle at launch, which Faction will you play in waiting for the Adepta Sororitas?

-- David Ghozland, Creative Director

I have to say, I was surprised to get a reply (a) at all, (b) so soon and (c) from several people in their studio. It seems they like to keep close to the playerbase (which I always liked in a gaming studio), though I expect this may become less regular later on when the game is growing and they get more and more work on their desks. If the Sisters really are amongst the first factions they'd like to add, this is certainly more than I had actually dared to hope for. I'll remain cautious, but let's see what the future holds!

**nomotog**

Edit: Nvm I miss read

**AWesker1976**

BryllCream wrote:
Melissa can you provide a list of mmorpgs that were balanced on release?

No other game developer for any mmo in existence has outright stated that balance is something they don't care about at all.

No other mmo is truly "balanced" but the devs strive to tweak the game to make it as balanced as they can possibly get. This dev has stated that balance is not something he's willing to spend resources to achieve and that we should just accept it.

Edit to add:

I wonder how the Tyrannid aspect will work. Will they just appear and that fighting the overpopulated side?

**nomotog**

A good game designer doesn't strive for perfect balance. Perfect balance being easy to do anyway.

**Melissia**

BryllCream wrote:
Melissa can you provide a list of mmorpgs that were balanced on release?

Irrelevant. Most developers actually TRY to balance their games. Maybe not "perfect balance" since that's impossible while keeping complexity, but they certainly try to keep it so that, if they have multiple factions in pvp, each faction is capable of winning relatively equally with the others.

Guild Wars 2 is relatively balanced now, but it wasn't balanced when it was released-- they still tried to balance it though. They don't actively say "feth balance".

Lynata wrote:
[snip]
If the Sisters really are amongst the first factions they'd like to add, this is certainly more than I had actually dared to hope for. I'll remain cautious, but let's see what the future holds!

I might even try it if they do. I doubt they will though.

It sounds like a cheap CYA cop-out though, compared to the statements they made earlier.

**Troike**

Lynata wrote:
Alright, so I got extra nerdy and actually e-mailed them. They've asked me to pass on their responses to you folks.

David, your Creative director and Brent lead gameplay love the Sisters!!

My explanation to the media was very simple and made for the mass market and not for the true fans of the IP.

All races and chapters in the IP COULD be playable by the players except Tyranids which have a hivemind (play by us the studio :-) )

But, Necron and Sisters, if we want to be true to the IP will be made for ''skilled'' players since they have a lot of depth and complexity to them.

Like you said, the first 4 races we selected, so far, are everybody's favorite number 2, which make them a good overall selection.

Please convey to the real fans on the forum that we are making THEIR game but that not everybody knows the IP like they do and we all want (including them) to have enough players in the game to make it fun and for the game to last.... Eternal!!!! :-) so in interview I try not to be too Hardcore with my explanation.

The team and I play the tabletop everyweek and we have more than 10k$ worth of army at the office.... We will post some pictures soon (when we are done painting them)

I wished you lived in Montreal..... We have thousand to paints!! ;-)

Anyway, for now, we have to trust Eldars to bring Sexiness to the game.... Then again I find Orcs sexy too!! Lol

Only through death does duty ends!

Miguel
-- Miguel Caron, Head of Studio, Online Games division

Like Miguel said Sisters of the battle were in the initial list with Tau and Imperial guard, when we had to select the ones we will launch with.

We had to make tough choices for the 4 initial factions, but please don’t despair, our post-launch plan is to bring more factions into the war.

Sisters of Battle are among the first batch we want to add.

We did select Space-Marines, Orks, Eldar and Chaos Space-Marines because of their popularity mainly and because they are iconic factions of the 40k universe.

For the Sisters of Battle, I agree with you they are not too far from female space marines without the body enhancements coming from the gene seeds of the Adeptus Astartes.

Giving that option for the players of the Imperium was really seducing for us but the implicit implication of the inquisition in the conflict at this point was too much of a constraint for us.

As you well know if we say too much about Chaos and the Inquisition then Exterminatus may follow! But I already said too much… J

Please say hello to the Dakkadakka forum folks for us!

They always have been a great source of information for our regular battles. In case of a disagreement about a point of rule we are checking Dakkadakka before to take a decision.

Thanks for the links by the way (I didn’t know that the Sisters deployed 10 Companies/Preceptories during the wars of Armageddon and 19 during the 13th black Crusade).

Cheers!

David

PS: I am curious, without the Sisters of battle at launch, which Faction will you play in waiting for the Adepta Sororitas?
-- David Ghozland, Creative Director

I have to say, I was surprised to get a reply (a) at all, (b) so soon and (c) from several people in their studio. It seems they like to keep close to the playerbase (which I always liked in a gaming studio), though I expect this may become less regular later on when the game is growing and they get more and more work on their desks. If the Sisters really are amongst the first factions they'd like to add, this is certainly more than I had actually dared to hope for. I'll remain cautious, but let's see what the future holds!

Interesting. I got the impression that they have quite a bit of love for the Sisters, especially since they say that Sisters were considered for the initial list and are desired for the first addon (despite not being the most prominent race). That's put my mind at ease a bit about how Sisters'll be portrayed if they're added. Thanks for taking the trouble to email them.

**AWesker1976**

Edit : deleted

**Enigwolf**

Interesting. I'm actually really intrigued by the fact that they did reply to you, and so soon to boot. I'm a little bit less skeptical about this now. I'm wondering if they'll want to come on-board to Dakka and join our discussions here, though. It might be interesting!

**Melissia**

We'll see if they actually hold up to that statement. I have two decades of experience with the gaming industry's treatment of female characters that leaves me supremely skeptical.

**Troike**

Melissia wrote:
We'll see if they actually hold up to that statement. I have two decades of experience with the gaming industry's treatment of female characters that leaves me supremely skeptical.

I'd say that the Sisters are in a pretty good position to get a positive portrayal here. From the sounds of it, if added, they're going to be their own self-contained faction, so it's not like they've got anybody to play second fiddle to in terms of characterisation.

Also, one thing that I kinda liked is that one of the email guys said that they're regarded as for "skilled players" and as having "lots of depth and complexity", so it sounds like they're very much getting their due amount of consideration and respect at this stage.

But yeah, way too early to tell. Though the information we have presently seems fairly promising.

Enigwolf wrote:
I'm wondering if they'll want to come on-board to Dakka and join our discussions here, though. It might be interesting!

Doubtful. I think that developers are generally discouraged to mingle in fan forums, lest they let slip something that they shouldn't.

Still, they know we exist. So they may be reading this very thread right now...

**nomotog**

You know, we don't have to be so pessimistic. It's ok to be optimistic. They very well might add the sisters. They could actually be a rather fun army.