Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 05:18:45
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle
SE Pennsylvania
|
So, I'm a longtime 40K player (15+ years now), but pretty much all of my experience is with Chaos Marines of one kind of another. It's starting to get a little old, so I figured I'd break out some of the miniatures I have laying around and try an Ultramarines army (since I already have a few squads painted up blue). Here's what I've got so far:
Sicarius = 200
Tigurius = 230
MM/HF Dread in Pod w/ Beacon = 160
MM/HF Dread in Pod w/ Beacon = 160
5xSternguard w/ PW Sgt, 2xMelta, 2xCombi-melta in Pod = 195
10xMarines w/ PW Sgt, Flamer, PC in Rhino = 225
10xMarines w/ PW Sgt, Flamer, PC in Rhino = 225
5xScouts w/ HB = 85
MM/HF Landspeeder = 70
8xDevastators w/ 4xML = 198
TOTAL = 1748
I figure that I'll drop the two Dreads in on Turn 1 to disrupt my opponent and hopefully pop a tank or two--maybe even tarpit some troops in CC if they survive. Tigurius will stay in Reserve with the Sternguard so that he can contribute to their firepower and give them the 5+ I save when they attack; the Landspeeder will also stay in reserve to react to any threats. The Tacs will combat squad to form a gunline with the PC squads and the Devastators, while Sicarius will ride in one of the Rhinos with the PW Sgt squads. They can attack the objectives or counterattack any threats to my gunline. I guess I wouldn't combat squad in a KP mission, which leaves me wondering what I'd do with Sicarius--maybe combat squad one of the Tacs so he can ride with the PW Sgt and Flamer squad.
|
Iron Warriors: 3,000 pts
Death Guard: 2,500 pts
Witch Hunters: 1,750 pts
Imperial Guard: 3,500 pts
Ultramarines: 1,750 pts
Orks: 2,500 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 07:02:16
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
RogueSangre
|
There's a few week units in the list. I've never seen Sicarius do anything to justify his points, and like most players, I think Tigurius simply costs to much to not have a built in invul save, which means you pretty much have to use one of his three powers on Force Dome every turn. The re-roll to reserves can be useful, but is only worth it in an army with more reserves than you should be fielding. As a side note, you can stick both of them in the pod with the Sternguard, don;t forget.
5 scouts rarely if ever make a difference, especially when you could do so much better with a Tac squad.
You field your Devastators in the "correct" way, other than leaving out two ablative wound guys, which makes a huge difference. Plus, their weapons are to over costed for what they do.
My suggestions would be to figure out what transport option you really want. Go with either pods or Mechanzied, and go from there.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 12:11:33
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
|
Scouts only make it worth it if you take Sniper Rifles. or use them to infiltrate then call down a Drop Pod or Deep Strike force on them.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 17:51:06
Subject: Re:New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle
SE Pennsylvania
|
So, I dropped Tigurius; I liked the reserve re-roll ability and the fact that he could use three psychic powers, but I was always a bit iffy on his high points cost. I think a vanilla Librarian will work much better riding with the Sternguard. I also dropped the locator beacons on the pods, and I used all the saved points to buy another HF/MM Landspeeder and a Razorback with TLLC for the Devastators (basically just for a cheap mobile LC, but it would also give me a different spot for Sicarius to ride). I do like Sicarius, mainly for his extra, non-combat abilities. I'd like to try him out in a battle or two first to see what happens. I think I may eventually upgrade to Marneus Calgar, especially in a larger battle (and I can always drop down to a Captain or Chapter Master in smaller games). Finally, I like the scouts as a small, extra scoring unit (I felt two tac squads was a little light)--I'll give them sniper rifles and put them on my home objective, or use them as part of my gun line. I just can't seem to find a way to add two more Devastators so that I can combat squad them for added versatility.
|
Iron Warriors: 3,000 pts
Death Guard: 2,500 pts
Witch Hunters: 1,750 pts
Imperial Guard: 3,500 pts
Ultramarines: 1,750 pts
Orks: 2,500 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 18:01:13
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
I hate scouts... they are horrible.
I use 2 10 man tac squads in rhinos, and a 5 man tac squad in a razorback in most of my lists. the 5 man squad in the razorback chills back and holds the home objective from the comfort of their vehicle, and if they have to, act as a bodyguard for the librarian or Sicarius, as they can't go in a 10 man squad because of transport limitations.
|
After the orbital strikes, Thunderhawk bombardments, Whirlwinds, Vindicators, fusion and starfire and finally Battle Brothers with flamers had finished cleansing the world of all the enemies of Man, we built a monastery in the center of the largest, most radioactive impact crater. We named the planet "Tranquility", for it was very quiet now.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/15 18:50:44
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Infiltrating Broodlord
|
Sicarius = 200
Tigurius = 230
As said, Tigurius sucks. All the other characters do what he can do better and cheaper. If you want a bad ass librarian, try an epistolary in terminator armor with storm shield. 40 points cheaper, 2+/3++ save, and can still use 2 powers a turn. Best thing about the epist is that he can move and fire Vortex of doom for that S10 vaporization goodness.
As for Sicarius....meh. Not AWFUL, but not amazing either. Flavor more then anything.
MM/HF Dread in Pod w/ Beacon = 160
MM/HF Dread in Pod w/ Beacon = 160
5xSternguard w/ PW Sgt, 2xMelta, 2xCombi-melta in Pod = 195
You realize you only get half (rounding up) of your pods first turn, so either one of the dreads or Sternie's will be arriving late. I'd suggest having the sternies as the late arrivals and dropping the beacon off of one of the other pods, save a few pods.
10xMarines w/ PW Sgt, Flamer, PC in Rhino = 225
10xMarines w/ PW Sgt, Flamer, PC in Rhino = 225
5xScouts w/ HB = 85
Space marine troop choices aren't amazing, I will admit, but these are particularly weak. Scouts need sniper rifle and ideally camo cloaks. I personally prefer melta guns for the tactical squads, and powerfist on the serg, but that's just me. Powerswords/flamers will work okay, but from a lot of your choices it feels like you have a lot of flamers/anti-infantry in the army. Do you expect foot orks, troop guard and eldar and swarm nids a lot?
MM/HF Landspeeder = 70
1 speeder is fragile IMO. It's going to get 1 shot off then be smoked most likely. Heavy flamer for troops, okay, but it doesn't really mesh with the multi-melta. Pretty much whatever you fire at one of the weapons will go to waste.
8xDevastators w/ 4xML = 198
Devastators are possibly the worst heavy support choice marines can take. If you are set on them, min/max it and do a 5 man squad with 4 missiles.
|
Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/16 12:18:52
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
|
Always max your Dev squads. if you take heavy weapons like lascannons or plasma cannons in your tac squads things like heavy bolters and missile launchers grouped together suddenly become much more attractive.
HB: 12 Str 5 shots each turn
ML: 4 Str 8 anti armour shots OR 4 Str 4 anti infantry blast shots.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/16 14:37:10
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge
|
Honersstodnt, You can get a razorback for a full tac squad. The restriction is that only 6 models may embark. Therefore you combat squad and leave the heavy weapon and 4 guys out for more dakka. The Sgt and the special weapon move forward.
|
Jidmah wrote:That's why I keep my enemies close and my AOBR rulebook closer.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/16 14:53:52
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
I'm aware that you can use a 10 man tac squad with a razorback. However, if you do that, then you do not have the option of being fully mechanized unless you combat squad. This is a problem in killpoints missions.
the 130 point 5 man tac squad in a razorback is useful for holding objectives in the back of the field, because it is such a low threat, it attracts little anti-tank fire, while anti-infantry fire can't touch it. If it were a bigger threat profile, it would not do its job as well. (holding an objective while the rest of your army moves forward).
I'd compare it to a scout squad with heavy bolter at 85 points.. but MUCH more accurate, manuverable, survivable, and overall good.
|
After the orbital strikes, Thunderhawk bombardments, Whirlwinds, Vindicators, fusion and starfire and finally Battle Brothers with flamers had finished cleansing the world of all the enemies of Man, we built a monastery in the center of the largest, most radioactive impact crater. We named the planet "Tranquility", for it was very quiet now.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/16 15:15:31
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge
|
I will agree that it is bad for KP missions, but I have seen many lists use that tactic to good effect.
|
Jidmah wrote:That's why I keep my enemies close and my AOBR rulebook closer.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/16 15:25:01
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
i'm sure. I'm just saying, the 130 pt 5 man squad in a razorback has a place in most lists, and I prefer it to the 10 man squad in a razorback.
|
After the orbital strikes, Thunderhawk bombardments, Whirlwinds, Vindicators, fusion and starfire and finally Battle Brothers with flamers had finished cleansing the world of all the enemies of Man, we built a monastery in the center of the largest, most radioactive impact crater. We named the planet "Tranquility", for it was very quiet now.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/17 23:33:21
Subject: Re:New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle
SE Pennsylvania
|
OK guys, good tips. Here's what I've got now:
Sicarius = 200 (I still want to try him out because I really like his StI, Ld and Vet Skill bonuses)
Librarian = 100
Dread w/ MM/HF in Pod = 150
Dread w/ MM/HF in Pod = 150
5xSternguard w/ PW Sgt, 2xMelta, 2xCombi-melta in Pod = 195
Tac Squad w/ PW Sgt, flamer, ML in TLLC Razorback = 260
Tac Squad w/ PP Sgt, melta, ML in TLLC Razorback = 265
5xScouts w/ snipers, cloaks = 90
MM/HF Speeder & MM/Tornado Speeder = 170
MM/HF Speeder & MM/Tornado Speeder = 170
Scouts camp on objective and snipe along with the combat ML squads, combat assault weapon squads (one with Sicarius, one with the Libby) load into Razorbacks to snipe with LCs and/or move to objectives as necessary, and Drop Pod Dreads come down to block opponent and destroy tanks/tarpit horde troops (orks, termagants, etc). To support this, I like the mobile firepower of multiple Speeders--I see them moving across the board at 12" and popping off two missiles a turn until they close with the enemy and engage tanks with both MMs (first priority) or troops with HF/frags (second priority). The cheaper MM/HF (only 70 pts) is also something for me to dump AT hits against the squadron onto. Finally, Sternguard are there to drop onto an objective to contest it, support my main attack (Razorbacks/combat squads/HQs) or headhunt an opponent's key tank or MC.
Overall, this army generates six missiles, seven melta shots, two twin-linked LCs and five templates a turn, plus all the bolters and snipers. I think that's a pretty good amount of firepower in 1750 pts, and it's versatile enough to take on both hordes and mech forces. Oh yeah, against mech forces Sicarius will make the PP sgt/meltagun/ML tac squad into Tankhunters, which means that against vehicles I'll have an effective S8 and S9 (melta) up close, plus a S9 missile at range to compliment all my MM and LC shots.
Finally, I realize that the Razorbacks force me to combat squad to use them, which is a potential liability in KP missions (although those are only 1/3 missions). In that case, I will probably just run one Tac squad and combat squad the other, so that Sicarius has some buddies to ride into battle with. Alternatively, I could just stick Sicarius and the Libby into one of the Razorbacks and just send them into battle, while leaving both squads whole. Or I could have one or both ride with the Sternguard. Plenty of tactical flexibility, which is also why I decided to keep the mix of Pods and transports. Having options is never a bad thing...
|
Iron Warriors: 3,000 pts
Death Guard: 2,500 pts
Witch Hunters: 1,750 pts
Imperial Guard: 3,500 pts
Ultramarines: 1,750 pts
Orks: 2,500 pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/18 01:08:08
Subject: New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
|
Have you considered the Lascannon/T-L Plasmagun turret for the Razorback instead of the TL-Lascannon? Same points cost, and a lot more utility.
|
Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/18 01:23:03
Subject: Re:New SM player has 1750 Ultramarines list for critique
|
 |
Brain-Dead Zombie of Nurgle
SE Pennsylvania
|
That's a pretty good idea too. I hadn't really considered it because I'd have to do some kunvertin, but it would be useful to have that extra firepower for Death Company and termies. And its another weapon to keep the vehicle from turning into a 6-pack Rhino with one weapon destroyed damage result.
|
Iron Warriors: 3,000 pts
Death Guard: 2,500 pts
Witch Hunters: 1,750 pts
Imperial Guard: 3,500 pts
Ultramarines: 1,750 pts
Orks: 2,500 pts |
|
 |
 |
|