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I generally run mechanized space marines. at 2000 points, i'm thinking of adding in a 10 man terminator unit, packing 4x chainfists, and 2x cyclone launchers. at 480 points, its expensive, but it adds considerable ranged punch, as well as a good deal of hand to hand ability. I'm planning on using a pair of TLAC + DCCW dreadnoughts, as my elites section. I'd normally combat squad the terminators, and deploy a squad of them + a dreadnought on each flank of my gunline, to provide a nice deterrent for anything to charge me, while adding some serious firepower.

What do you think?

Edit: Ignore me d(^_^)b

Sounds like a good tactic to me.

The one suggestion I could make, since you like using two Dreadnoughts and the large Terminator squad as your elites section, is to get them into the enemy sooner. Walking is too easy to avoid, and even though these units need to shoot, they are in prime range at 24".

Try Drop Pods (but not for the Terminators - Bwar, you're thinking of the old codex) for the Dreadnoughts. Put each one in a Pod with a Locator Beacon, and have another Pod in your army somewhere, say, with a Tactical squad who will come in later to occupy an objective.

Split the Terminators into Combat Squads, as you mentioned, and Teleport them in from Reserves separately, using the Pods as guidance tools. If you use a Terminator Librarian with Gate of Infinity, you can even carry a squad to the Beacon from a walking start, or redeploy late in the battle. You may have bad reserves rolls and the Dreadnoughts may have to fend for themselves for a few turns, but they can usually do that. When the Terminators come in, they'll be right where you want them to be, assuming the Pods have survived.

Also, depending on luck, you may get the chance to bring those Termies down with a nice view of some rear or side armor for the CML. Being Relentless, they can fire on the turn they Teleport in, and if that happens to be behind the enemy tank line.... well, you get the point.
On the other hand, walking them up the flanks gives your enemy all the time in the world to see them coming and avoid them or deal with them somehow.

Terminators with CMLs are always a good choice IMHO, but if you hang back with them to the point of only ever firing the CML, all you have is a very resilient Devestator squad, and you're wasting ~45 points per model just standing there supervising. It's not ineffective, but inefficient.

Well, I used this configuration (without chain fists), also in RTTs, and it was quite satisfactory.
I'd include Lysander since bolter drill improves their shooting a lot.

just be sure your terminators don't get charged by a power weapon armed unit like Burnas or a MC.

Tac Termies arn't CC units. they are ranged units with anti-tank capability.

don't rely on your 5++ save. it won't work much of them time and you don't want to lose your expensive terminators.

maybe I should post the entire list i'm planning on bringing....

HQ: Librarian in terminator armor w/ stormshield (null zone + vortex of doom) - 140 pts

Elite: 10 man terminator squad (2x CML, 4x CF) - 480 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (TLAC+DCCW) - 115 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (TLAC+DCCW) - 115 pts

Troops: 10 man tac squad (ML + Melta) in rhino - 210 pts
Troops: 10 man tac squad (ML + Melta) in rhino - 210 pts

Fast: 2x LS Typhoon - 180 pts
Fast: 2x LS Typhoon - 180 pts

Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts


brings me to 1990 pts... probably give the tac sergeants melta bombs to bring it up to 2000 even.

this gives me a shooty marine list able to fire off:

14 krak missiles per turn (12 of them able to move and fire)
6 lascannons per turn
5 autocannons per turn (2 twin linked)


so it should be able to put out some serious firepower. anti-infantry, it has plenty of bolter fire, along with copious amounts of frag missiles. when the enemy gets close enough, 10 terminators + 2 dreadnoughts is a serious counter-charge, that will put serious hurt on nobs of any type, as well as MEQS. AV14 could be a problem, as 6 lascannons isn't TOO reliable at killing them... but 6 LC should be able to at least cause damage, hopefully immobilize it, then the chainfists + dreads can charge in and go to work.

I'm not relying on the terminators for CC mostly... they are there for counter charge, if the enemy makes it through to me. I'd rather have terminators in hand to hand than tac marines, any day.

"considerable ranged punch"? Excuse me for being a guard player, but I don't quite see how nearly 500 points for a pair of missile launchers is a good value, much less considerable damage.

The chainfists are nice, but I can't really imainge ever needing more than like 2. Also, as other people mentioned, power weapons are your enemy - storm shields are your friend.

well, its 500 points for 4 missile launchers, basically. that can move and shoot. compare this to the 180 points for the same firepower on a typhoon, its much less. However, the terminators also get 10 storm bolters to fire, which is not insignificant, and i'd value at 100 points (upgrade cost on rhinos for a storm bolter)... So I'm probably paying a 200 point premium over typhoons for firepower. that 200 points buys me a MUCH more survivable platform, however, and the ability to counter-charge things that get near me.

when you compare a 5++ save to a 3++ save, its a 100% increase in effectiveness. what this means in practical terms is i'll fail twice as many invulnerable saves. This is why i'm putting a dreadnought near them. If a large enemy unit gets near enough to my terminator / dreadnought formation, they will be charged. If I can position the dreadnought to be the only model in base to base with at least half the power weapons / fists in the squad, then my terminators will have the same survivability as a squad of hammer terminators. if the enemy squad incoming is ALL power weapons, then it should have been focus fired down before it ever reached that point.

I don't know the people you play or if you plan on using this as a tournament army but if I saw this army coming at me across the table I would smile broadly. You have two troop units and unless I am missing something you need them to hold objectives and score. I would concentrate all of my fire on those two units and keep you from scoring pods or not. Of course this point is moot if the mission is kill points.

Gah, that point is useless:

A) He is asking for advice on his unit, not his list, he may not care, though he might.

B) Two troop choices are enough, he can combat squad the if need be, AND, the rest of his army will need a shooting at his units, or you will die.

Simply saying "You have two troops! I can just shoot them and win!!!" is just plain ignorant. Sure, we could play, you do that, and I smile broadly as you don't fire a shot at the rest of my army.

spacemarinejunkie wrote:I don't know the people you play or if you plan on using this as a tournament army but if I saw this army coming at me across the table I would smile broadly. You have two troop units and unless I am missing something you need them to hold objectives and score. I would concentrate all of my fire on those two units and keep you from scoring pods or not. Of course this point is moot if the mission is kill points.

The lack of Troops bothers me, as well. The only way to keep those Tac Squads in the game is to either hide them out of LOS for two or three turns (depending on how the fight goes, and where the objectives are), while the rest of the army unloads all that heavy weaponry on the opposition.

I would put the Tacticals in reserves, but I have to agree that two troops in a 2000 point game is a bit light.

HQ: Librarian in terminator armor w/ stormshield (null zone + vortex of doom) - 140 pts

Elite: 10 man terminator squad (2x CML, 4x CF) - 480 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (TLAC+DCCW) - 115 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (TLAC+DCCW) - 115 pts

Troops: 10 man tac squad (ML + Melta) in rhino - 210 pts
Troops: 10 man tac squad (ML + Melta) in rhino - 210 pts

Fast: 2x LS Typhoon - 180 pts
Fast: 2x LS Typhoon - 180 pts

Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy: Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts

This is a very solid list.
However, I'd be inclined to replace 2 Typhoons by 2 Landspeeders with heavy flamers and multi-meltas.

Ive run a 10 man terminator squad with Tigurious, an assault cannon and a cyclone + 2 chainfists. Absolutely raped. They happened to be in their comfort zone, against a chaos player who played for "glory" not victory. Hey, thats ok, but he fielded like 30 NORMAL chaos marines with a khorne icon, no plasma guns, or pistols, or anything. they killed at least 20 marines in ranged combat, got fired on by obliterators, took 3 casualties, returned fire and wiped out the 2 oblits, then assaulted the only nurgle marine squad (7 of them) they killed none, terminators instantly wiped them out, then met their end at the hand of Abaddon himself (after killing a defiler with the cyclone, assault cannon and a vortex of doom) Won me the match hands down. sternguard then took care of Abaddon with some lucky rolls, combi plasa and meltas.

Moral of the story is in a less than ideal situation this squad will get raped. Demolishers or plasma cannons do bad thing to these squads.

I think this belongs in the Lists Section, not Tactics. You opened with a question about a particular unit, but it would seem your list is already set. That makes suggestions about things like deployment methods moot.

I think you already know how it will work, just judging by the plan you described. Just play it a few times against as many different opponents as you can.

Also, post your full list first if it's already made, or discuss the tactical application of a unit in all it's flexibility - you can't really do both at the same time.

I always field a similar terminator unit, just because I hate slamming a land raider filled with assault termies and calgar and slap anything in the butt . IMO this unit is an uber unit no less than their assault counterpart, they just require a different use. Here are the ways I've used them to great success:

1) Shield Wall: it takes incredible amount of firepower to reduce your 10-man termie squad to combat inefficiency, especially with your configuration you can take advantage of the wound allocation system. Deployed them in a single line and spearheading your assault. They blast the gak out of anything, though I prefer 2 assault cannon and shred enemy infantry in the dozens. Since everything will be firing at them your tactical/devies squads will be free to target vehicles/elites/HQ

2) Hammer and anvil: Deepstrike them into the enemy flanks and obliterate key objectives. Split them into 2 combat squads, one with 2 CML to nail vehicles in their side/rear, the other shred infantry. It does wonders when it works but can be tricky. They're expensive, so every turn they're not on the table your wasting valuable resources and I hate rolling one on my reserve or ds mishaps, so get some teleport homer/beacons nearby

3) Reverse hammer and anvil: teleport the full sqd into enemy flanks or rear, but in full number. The enemy will either 1) move away from them 2) shoot back at them 3) assault the gak out of them. 1) your lucky 2) you will take some fire, but your army will have much more time to maneuver 3) I don't know why so many people think they can nail termies in cc. Unless you get hit by 10 banshees with doom or assault termies, you will survive with enough guys to smash some faces with those powerfists. And the best thing is that you've pinned a large portion of the enemy down.

It's a decennt unit but it has many counters. Its power comes from the rest of the list which fields an MSU style army with lots of ranged threats so it provides a solid anchor for the force.