Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi everyone,

Quick question.

Do Ork Battlewagons that have the Deff Rolla upgrade make D6 Str 10 "attacks" on a vehicle when they ram it AS WELL as the normal ram they would get (4+ for av 14, 1+ for tank, ?+ for distance travelled).

I was flicking through my Ork Codex recently because i was considering another ORk army and i came upon the BAttlewagon and its Deff Rolla special rules.
I thought that because a ram is a form of Tank Shock that when you ram a vehicle you would get the D6 "Attacks".

I just wanted to see if i could do this and that i enterpreted the rules correctly, because if so, i have a new army forming.

Cheers,

Old Sledgeaxe

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m970066a_2010_Orks_FAQ

Yes, you get both the Ram and the Deff Rolla attack

Aramoro

Yes, yes you do.

For the record, they're "hits" not "attacks," which is relevant unless the other vehicle didn't move last turn.

Is there any functional difference in this case between "hits" and "attacks"? You're saying that you have to roll D6 to-hits unless the target vehicle was stationary, right?

Since we're talking about Deffrollaz and hits, does the Deffrolla actually have to make contact with the vehicle/target to cause the hits?

Ouze wrote:Is there any functional difference in this case between "hits" and "attacks"? You're saying that you have to roll D6 to-hits unless the target vehicle was stationary, right?

Hits are what you get from successful attacks. When something causes hits, you've skipped the "to-hit" rolls. In this case, the functional difference between causing say, 4 Attacks and 4 hits, is how many penetration rolls you get to make. If the Deff rolla caused attacks and the vehicle moved combat speed, then you'd roll dice and get to roll penetration for all the results of 4 or more (average of 2), but since the Deff rolla causes hits, you would immediately roll 4 penetration results.

Old Sledgeaxe wrote:Hi everyone,

Quick question.

Do Ork Battlewagons that have the Deff Rolla upgrade make D6 Str 10 "attacks" on a vehicle when they ram it AS WELL as the normal ram they would get (4+ for av 14, 1+ for tank, ?+ for distance travelled).

I was flicking through my Ork Codex recently because i was considering another ORk army and i came upon the BAttlewagon and its Deff Rolla special rules.
I thought that because a ram is a form of Tank Shock that when you ram a vehicle you would get the D6 "Attacks".

I just wanted to see if i could do this and that i enterpreted the rules correctly, because if so, i have a new army forming.

Cheers,

Old Sledgeaxe

Check INAT. It has an entirely arbitrary answer to the subject for you, that is used by many tourney's across the globe!

whitedragon wrote:Since we're talking about Deffrollaz and hits, does the Deffrolla actually have to make contact with the vehicle/target to cause the hits?

No it does not.

Many people model their deffrollas in the UP position to avoid the problems associated with weather or not you want to count it as part of the hull.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Che-Vito wrote:

Old Sledgeaxe wrote:Hi everyone,

Quick question.

Do Ork Battlewagons that have the Deff Rolla upgrade make D6 Str 10 "attacks" on a vehicle when they ram it AS WELL as the normal ram they would get (4+ for av 14, 1+ for tank, ?+ for distance travelled).

I was flicking through my Ork Codex recently because i was considering another ORk army and i came upon the BAttlewagon and its Deff Rolla special rules.
I thought that because a ram is a form of Tank Shock that when you ram a vehicle you would get the D6 "Attacks".

I just wanted to see if i could do this and that i enterpreted the rules correctly, because if so, i have a new army forming.

Cheers,

Old Sledgeaxe

Check INAT. It has an entirely arbitrary answer to the subject for you, that is used by many tourney's across the globe!

Bitter?

Shake Zoola wrote:Bitter?

No, he's absolutely right. The INAT, while a good piece of work, is about as consistent as Lumpy Custard.

Lumpy custard is 100% consistent - it's all lumpy custard ^_^

But yes the INAT never 'takes a side' and as such I (and maybe others) think some of rulings are not consistent. By this we mean that due to the large amount of input and work put in by the team and all the places from which to draw opinions we find rulings that have gone to the 'as it was meant to be' side and others to the 'as the rules have made it'. Things like that.

This being said I couldn't sat that the INAT team doesn't have 'The Players' as their priority when constructing the FAQ.

Shake Zoola wrote:Bitter?

No, realistic.

Gwar! wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:Bitter?

No, he's absolutely right. The INAT, while a good piece of work, is about as consistent as Lumpy Custard.

A good piece of inconsistent work, yes. It's functional, and useful for the tourney scene. Could be done better, but isn't. Arbitrary rulings have a way of ruining a potentially good endeavor.

Shake Zoola wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Since we're talking about Deffrollaz and hits, does the Deffrolla actually have to make contact with the vehicle/target to cause the hits?

No it does not.

Many people model their deffrollas in the UP position to avoid the problems associated with weather or not you want to count it as part of the hull.

I don't see how that's possible really, and I don't see how it ignores anything about the hull. GW made a bit for the deffrolla that is bolted to the front of the battlewagon, so clearly they intended it to go there.

Having not played in a tournament, I carry the updated GW Codex Ork FAQ with me wherever I go. I have three battle wagons, all with deff rollas. Point at offending enemy, put the right foot down and hang on, because we're comin' out the other side of this B*tch!!!

yea, i play 3x BW's with Deff rolla's (2x) in non torni games. it's fun, as the enemy is forced to target what they would rather not target, it's like 4x waveserpents that can outflank you all the time. and Battle wagons are Base 90pts so there not cheap when it comes to orky stuff. w/ deff rolla there 110, then you need to add more stuff to keep em goin etc.

i play deff rolas as, i tank shock you, anything in the deff rolas way (whether it been 1 marine on my intended targets direction) then hits the rest of that unit with d6 hits, as well as the tank i eventually dodgem car into. ap3 means that d6 will do nothing much unless i cause 6 wounds but non the less, 1 bonus is better than no bonus.
if your d6 hits fail to destroy that tank then you still have your ramming speed to count on. but watch out when ramming landraiders, they have blown up my BW's before!

don't forget, BW's are not fast vehicles and your tank shock only lets you go 12-13" because open topped after your tank shock you may disembark and then shoot, then charge! muhahah Shoota boyz for the win!

While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

Anidem wrote:While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

you do all D6 hits but you still get to attempt your DoG...if you succeed in your DoG you still take the successful deff rolla wounds...

So if your gonna DoG make sure its absolutely worth it!

Anidem wrote:While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

Anidem wrote:While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

I always played d6 hits first, if they want DoG then hit them d6 more times and then if they survive they do DoG.

Claypool wrote:

Anidem wrote:While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

I always played d6 hits first, if they want DoG then hit them d6 more times and then if they survive they do DoG.

That's wrong however. It's D6 no matter what, and if the DoG, then it's 2D6, not D6 then D6.

Gwar! wrote:

Claypool wrote:

Anidem wrote:While there is a topic on Deffrollas i'd like to ask something

When you tankshock an infantry unit, and they attempt a "DEATH OR GLORY" do you do D6 hits, DoG attack, then D6 hits? or all 2D6 before the model gets to make an attack? and if its successful, does this negate the hits from the Deffrolla

I always played d6 hits first, if they want DoG then hit them d6 more times and then if they survive they do DoG.

That's wrong however. It's D6 no matter what, and if the DoG, then it's 2D6, not D6 then D6.

What's the difference between d6 then d6 and 2d6?

2D6 happens at once. D6 then D6 happens at different times.

You don't roll D6, resolve the hits, then DoG, then resolve D6 more hits.

You Tank Shock, then if he DoG, you resolve 2D6. If he doesn't, you resolve D6.

Yeah, if it was d6 first, there might be no one left to DoG!

I have been using them my last few games. I was unable to blow up a LR after two attempts my last game, but a few weeks ago they exploded on my Rolla quite well.

We sometimes forget to do the 'Ram' attack in all the DeffRolling excitement.

I run with my Rolla down, and play it as 'hull' with my opponent's consent. One of my Rollas is 'nested' under a looted LR (running backwards) and so causes no questions or problems. I'll do any more I make like that one.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
You resolve DoG first, then resolve either 1d6 or 2d6 hits depending on whether the BW was stopped or not.

I would just like to say that this is wrong. It doesn't matter whether the battlewagon stops or not. If it Tank Shocks (or Rams) a unit, it takes d6 S 10 hits. If the unit elects to DoG, they take 2d6 S 10 hits. The battlewagon stopping or continuing on has no bearing on this.

zatchmo wrote:
I would just like to say that this is wrong. It doesn't matter whether the battlewagon stops or not. If it Tank Shocks (or Rams) a unit, it takes d6 S 10 hits. If the unit elects to DoG, they take 2d6 S 10 hits. The battlewagon stopping or continuing on has no bearing on this.

You're right, says so right in the ork FAQ. My favorite part of all the deffolla business is the multiple tank shocks/rams that can happen... Ah sweet, sweet nectar.

tank shocked 3 seperate guard infantry units in 1 turn before, causing 3 hits 4 hits and 6 hits on all separate rolls, alot of guardsmen went squish. and some ran, and then my boyz shot charge the other unit killed em, consolidated near the running unit and they went off the board! winz for boyz!

I have one additonal question for the thread. If you tankshock an inf unit and it declares it will DoG and fails does that model get removed prior to wound allocation for the rolla hits or can it essentially soak up an extra wound thus not really lose anything by DoG?

jtw1n wrote:I have one additonal question for the thread. If you tankshock an inf unit and it declares it will DoG and fails does that model get removed prior to wound allocation for the rolla hits or can it essentially soak up an extra wound thus not really lose anything by DoG?

If the DoG fails, that model is immediatly removed, before the 2D6 hits.

Thanks everyone.

I did not expect so much discussion to generate from this question.

So what i gather is this;
1) When you Ram a Tank you get the d6 hits as well as the hit for ramming.
2) When you Tank Shock an infantry unit you get 2d6 hits if the DoG, resolved after the DoG but not taking the DoG'er into account for wound allocation as they are removed before, and only d6 hits if the unit does NOT DoG.
3) The Deff Rolla gets its hits regardless to wether or not the DoG'er stops the Tank Shock.

If think that is all.
Thanks everyone for clearing up my questions on this topic, allowing me to get Rolling.

If there is anything else i have missed out that is important please say so.

Cheers,

Old Sledgeaxe