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I've found that people claim that Wraithlords are only good if they can be placed behind cover, but they're soooo tall. My question is, if you model a Wraithlord to be crouching or kneeling is it against the rules, and will it be treated to it's modeled height to find cover, or will it be treated as though it is standing? Thank you.

What you are describing is known as "Modelling for Advantage." Any model that falls under this category will be treated as if it were the appropriate size, and in this particular case, standing upright.

Artemis500 wrote:I've found that people claim that Wraithlords are only good if they can be placed behind cover, but they're soooo tall. My question is, if you model a Wraithlord to be crouching or kneeling is it against the rules, and will it be treated to it's modeled height to find cover, or will it be treated as though it is standing? Thank you.

You can so this, but it's called "modeling for advantage" and is considered a dick move.

Artemis500 wrote:you model a Wraithlord to be crouching or kneeling is it against the rules,

What is it always kneeling and always a bloody wraithlord >_< Seriously thou no don't do it, but if you get him into a lotus position I'll think about allowing it

Zijan wrote: Any model that falls under this category will be treated as if it were the appropriate size, and in this particular case, standing upright.

Note that this would be a house rule.


The rules do not, in fact, tell us to treat converted models as if they were assembled normally. They don't specifically cover conversions at all. They just work around the actual model that is on the table.

Treating kneeling models as standing upright is a not too uncommon house rule to discourage or deal with modelling for advantage, but it is not a universal one. Many people prefer, so long as the model is not too abusive, to simply use the model as is, as this is generally easier.

Also be aware that modelling the Wraithlord lower down also affects his LOS.


A better solution than modelling him crouching or kneeling would be to simply use more LOS-blocking terrain. Most players don't use enough.

insaniak wrote:
Note that this would be a house rule.

Huh. I was always under the impression that my statement above was GW sanctioned. Just goes to show that appearances may not always be what they seem.

I'll keep that in mind.

Artemis500 wrote:I've found that people claim that Wraithlords are only good if they can be placed behind cover, but they're soooo tall.

No, Wraithlords are at their best when as many enemy units as possible try to kill them. This will let the useful stuff in your transports get to where you need them most. Helps if you can also claim a cover save, ofc.

Well thank you all for the information. I was curious after seeing a few models kneeling and low to the ground.

I would allow a Wraithlord that looked like he was stalking someone, but not one crawling commando style.

then again i would use alot of 3" high terrain and simply ignore it.


now one thing you can't do is put say a Skimmer on a really tall base so it will always have LOS to the entire battle field, unless you agree that the belly armour is always 10.

Some crouching Wraithlords do look sweet, but I've never played against one of them. If someone's really pissing you off with one just inform them that, RaW, a Wraithlord can't fire since it doesn't have eyes and thus cannot draw LoS.

DruidODurham wrote:Some crouching Wraithlords do look sweet, but I've never played against one of them. If someone's really pissing you off with one just inform them that, RaW, a Wraithlord can't fire since it doesn't have eyes and thus cannot draw LoS.

RAW space marines in helmets can't fire because there are no eyes on the model.

Grey Templar wrote:now one thing you can't do is put say a Skimmer on a really tall base so it will always have LOS to the entire battle field, unless you agree that the belly armour is always 10.

I don't recall "belly armor" in the rulebook, or any codices, or any mention of it's value being standardized at 10 when choosing to model a skimmer high.

My wraithlords cover is the waveserpent I put directly in front of it

Mengwai wrote:My wraithlords cover is the waveserpent I put directly in front of it

That works, you can also stack a warwalker in front of it, and then put a waveserpent in front of that, and if positioned correctly, you have the wraithlord firing over the shoulder of the walker, and the walker's weapons on either side of the waveserpent turret, granting everyone a clear shot.

I've got an old metal one that that I'm coverting to a stalking position. I want to make him give off the feel of a striking scorpion. that would be why he crouches.

Would modeling for theme like this be a "dick"move?

Captain Avatar wrote:I've got an old metal one that that I'm coverting to a stalking position. I want to make him give off the feel of a striking scorpion. that would be why he crouches.

Would modeling for theme like this be a "dick"move?

It really depends on how low you model him. If you are terrible concerned, you can have him crouching like a stalking striking scorpion, but have him doing so on a raised piece of terrain, like a boulder or something. That way you get the scenic pose, but you don't lose much in the way of height.

Grey Templar wrote:crawling commando style.

All I can imagine is a giant wraithlord crawling on his belly with some warlock standing nearby dumbfounded.

*Shhhhh. I'm sneaking!*

Falconlance wrote:I don't recall "belly armor" in the rulebook, or any codices

Just off the top of my head, the Hades and the Mawloc both use the rear armour value for the underside.

Falconlance wrote:when choosing to model a skimmer high.

Models have to be mountd on the supplied base - there's no option to model a skimmer higher than the standard flying base allows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Avatar wrote:I've got an old metal one that that I'm coverting to a stalking position. I want to make him give off the feel of a striking scorpion. that would be why he crouches.

Would modeling for theme like this be a "dick"move?

This is where rule of cool kicks in - if he looks good then people usually won't mind. If he looks like you just wanted to make him a smaller target then you'll get a less friendly reaction.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Falconlance wrote:I don't recall "belly armor" in the rulebook, or any codices

Just off the top of my head, the Hades and the Mawloc both use the rear armour value for the underside.

The Hades Breaching Drill is Strengh 10 Melta against side armour, the Mawloc is Strength 6 against rear armour

just felt I had to say it

Lotet wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Falconlance wrote:I don't recall "belly armor" in the rulebook, or any codices

Just off the top of my head, the Hades and the Mawloc both use the rear armour value for the underside.

The Hades Breaching Drill is Strengh 10 Melta against side armour, the Mawloc is Strength 6 against rear armour

just felt I had to say it

Good point - I guess there's no clear precedent for the underside armour value.

This reminds me of some games in Epic Space Marine (2nd Edition Epic) over a decade ago. One of our players was Chaos, and used Mortarion in his army. Mort’s model was ridiculously large - almost as tall as a Warhound. When he ran into woods, the player would lay Mort on his stomach to take cover.

That’s my most enduring memory of Epic SM games – Mortarion, Daemon Prince of Nurgle and Primarch of the Death Guard, low-crawling through trees to hide from some Orks.

now one thing you can't do is put say a Skimmer on a really tall base so it will always have LOS to the entire battle field, unless you agree that the belly armour is always 10.

Unless you're Imperial Guard.