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Ok, so Im a mech IG player, and Ive got a game coming up in a couple weeks against a BA player that favours assault marines with flamers and meltas, TH/SS terminators, Mephiston, Sanguinary guard (useless versus IG), A land raider redeemer and a baal predator (with swapable weapons) and most of all sanguinary priests! LAME!

Wth do i do!

If it helps, ive got:

1 leman russ demolisher varient (sponsons, hullmount and turret weapon swapable) usually fielded as a executioner
1 leman russ (vanquisher or LRBT swapable, as are sponsons and hullmount)
40 foot infantry
10 storm troopers
1 PCS
2 CSS
2 Chimeras
1 manticore
1 Colossus
1 valk with MRPs and HBs
1 vendetta
1 armoured sentinel with PC (gunna be 3)
1 hellhound (swapable to banewolf)
9 heavy weapons teams : 2 heavy bolters, 1 autocannon, 3 lascannons, 3 mortars.

I was thinking of taking masters of the ordnance to hope for lucky shots, they wreck assault marines.

My problem is my ever trusty flashlight spam doesnt work against freaking assault marines with feel no pain, and i never have a chance to assault (not that I'd want to, but its better than being assaulted)

executioner can easily deal with THSS terminators, vanquisher got a 1hit on the land raider last game on turn 2, but i need the normal LRBT, so ill maybe melta veteran in a valk? Good thing is this army has no long range AT (as in the BA) so i can sit still with my vendetta and take potshots at stuff like preds.

thoughts?!?!?!

I field Demolishers and basic LRBTs.....BA players cry...no FNP for them

Also, an =I= + Mystics in a Vendetta, with 2-3 squads of meltavets/plasmavets/etc within 12" makes DSing BAs cry even more. They can't DS close enough to your lines to use their meltas, without getting nailed first.

Sure, the new BA are very solid; however, with their points cost compared to that of IG, along with all of IG's firepower and tactical tricks, they aren't terribly scary.

Alerian wrote:
Also, an =I= + Mystics in a Vendetta, with 2-3 squads of meltavets/plasmavets/etc within 12" makes DSing BAs cry even more. They can't DS close enough to your lines to use their meltas, without getting nailed first.

This, "Oh what's that you're Deep striking within (4D6)? ok I nominate squad X to shoot at you for free before you can do anything"

make that "I nominate the Executioner......."

Am I mistaken in that all signs lead to allies being out in the near future?

I know mystics are badass but you might want to think of some guard-only tactics in case your ace in the hole tactic gets yanked in the near future.

JRedbeard wrote:Am I mistaken in that all signs lead to allies being out in the near future?

I know mystics are badass but you might want to think of some guard-only tactics in case your ace in the hole tactic gets yanked in the near future.

Well said. It's better to stick with one codex, for theme games go nuts.

and Why are Sang Guard useless VS IG? Without up grades that's 10 shots S4 AP4.....and MC-power weapons and 2+ saves? That sounds like a real pain for IG to me.

Anarchyman99 wrote:

JRedbeard wrote:Am I mistaken in that all signs lead to allies being out in the near future?

I know mystics are badass but you might want to think of some guard-only tactics in case your ace in the hole tactic gets yanked in the near future.

Well said. It's better to stick with one codex, for theme games go nuts.

and Why are Sang Guard useless VS IG? Without up grades that's 10 shots S4 AP4.....and MC-power weapons and 2+ saves? That sounds like a real pain for IG to me.

because (correct me if im wrong) they are reasonabley gak against tanks, and who uses power weapon mares worth 35 points (i assume) each on guardsmen, a 17 point veteran with plasma gun can easily kill a SG, its just overkill. what if an executioner or demolisher shoots them? From my armies point of view, i never allow 2+ saves to get away with anything. Sure, the ap 4 is awesome, but im pretty sure its ranged 12, and then they can assault afterwards and kill any squad they want. easily. but then their within 12 of the rest of the 50 foot infantry and numberless tanks i have. I agree entirely, Sang guard are AWESOME, but not against imperial guard.

Sanguinary Guard can take melta pistols plus power fists. They are solid versus IG.

G

Yeah but your totally missing the point here. You can take an assault squad with a powerfist and melta pistol too. Sure, SG have tons of options, but wasting a 2+ save, an angelus bolter and a power weapon as standard is a somewhat useless waste of points.

Jaon wrote:Ok, so Im a mech IG player, and Ive got a game coming up in a couple weeks against a BA player that favours assault marines with flamers and meltas, TH/SS terminators, Mephiston, Sanguinary guard (useless versus IG), A land raider redeemer and a baal predator (with swapable weapons) and most of all sanguinary priests! LAME!

My standard list works well agaisnt this type of army. Vanquisher with Pask, his only job is to kill that Land Raider as far from me as possible. Executioner, for those termies that bail out of said Land Raider or deep strike in, and Colossus, for his 'stay at home and control an objective' units. Then I add a couple of 30-man blobbed platoons with lascannon/plasma guns and a Commissar and vox, commie and sgts all get power weapons and meltabombs for any assault types/walkers that reach them. You could do one with LC, one with AC/HB. One PCS gets a chimera and 4 x meltas (backup to the PaskQuisher), the other gets a heavy weapon, usually a lascannon. Note: used to run one platoon lascannon, one platoon autocannon, then Nids came along with all those T6 3+ save MCs and autocannons just weren't cutting it anymore. CCS also gets a lascannon and a chimera, sit in it and yell Bring It Down or Fire on My target and once in a while First Rank, Second Rank. As points go up I add a Psyker Battle Squad (works great in conjunction with that Colossus!) and yes, I use an Inquisitor Lord with Mystics, Tarot, Hood and a Callidus Assassin (also great with the PBS). That's pretty much my all-comers 2K list, and a variant of it should work quite well against what you show him fielding.

I can't wait for them to yank the whole lord mystics thing. Such a broken combo. It may not have been too abusable when it was first released, but when combined with the new stuff that has come out lately. Yeash.

Anyway. BA are just like normal marines, only they hit a little harder on the first round of combat. (The increased Initiative doesn't mean squat against the IG typical Initiative of 3).

IG can get so many AP1 and/or S8+ guns that FNP probably won't be such an issue. Melta Vet squads will make Sanguniary Guard cry (they only come in 5 man squads).

Smacking Mephiston with a PBS (you can out range his hood) then hitting him with any barrage weapon will cause him to go to ground for his next turn. Making him useless.

Guard have so many different ways of making normal marines cry, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

so, against BA, you really can't hold back on the big guns. Unfortunately, he's going to be able to shread up vehicles pretty bad. As such, I'd still take a few vehicle-heavy weapons, but instead of taking russes, I'd take artillery (as it's all going to die just as fast, do you might as well make it cheap).

After that, what you've really got to do is deny FNP this means plasma guns, yes, but it also means power weapons. Consider a few power weapon commissar blob squads. BA works best with shock and awe, flitsing around shooting special weapons and always getting lots of extra chainsword hits in on the charge. Few things take the steam out of a BA assault liked getting bogged down in a war of attrition.

Jaon wrote:Yeah but your totally missing the point here. You can take an assault squad with a powerfist and melta pistol too. Sure, SG have tons of options, but wasting a 2+ save, an angelus bolter and a power weapon as standard is a somewhat useless waste of points.

I have some friends doing quite well running SG as troops with Dante. They are also fearless so can pretty much ignore PSB. The 2+ save is one of their best attributes when teamed up with a Priest. I don't use them but I respect what they can do. If you don't mind running small squads the SG army is solid.

G

Jayden63 wrote:BA are just like normal marines, only they hit a little harder on the first round of combat.

I think you seriously underestimate BA's speed. Most marines don't spam hordes of assault troops, because they're expensive and non-scoring. BA can and do, virtually guaranteeing a 2nd turn charge in most games. If BA get the first turn, the guard basically has one turn to completely cripple the BA army, because it only takes a handful of BA assault troops to totally wreck an IG army.

Jayden63 wrote:IG can get so many AP1 and/or S8+ guns that FNP probably won't be such an issue. Melta Vet squads will make Sanguniary Guard cry (they only come in 5 man squads).

As mentioned above, while lasguns shouldn't be relied upon to slaughter marines, they can usually be relied upon to finish off the few remaining survivors that the large blasts and such leave behind. With FNP, this is severely reduced (as are all your chimera shots). Librarians can also shield units, giving them a cover save against your bigger guns.

Jayden63 wrote:Smacking Mephiston with a PBS (you can out range his hood) then hitting him with any barrage weapon will cause him to go to ground for his next turn. Making him useless.

The PBS can be quite critical in a game like this, although I think they ignore these kinds of problems if they are fearless from the red thirst. Tough to depend on, though, as again, BA marines move quickly, so that hood will be within 24" most likely on the first turn.

Jayden63 wrote:Guard have so many different ways of making normal marines cry, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think you are inviting a whooping upon yourself viewing BA as another marine army. BAs have a couple major threat paths that are very unique and require special attention. Accurate deepstriking with meltaguns, for one, can be a problem. Scouting Baal preds are a potential threat, too, as they can easily shread any units in the open and will destroy chimera-hulled vehicles from the side without any real trouble. Moving vehicles to make them harder to hit just reduces your firepower and doesn't buy enough time due to their speed.

First, obviously bring as many large ord blasts as you can. The manticore isn't bad, either, as it can generate a lot of wounds and ignores FNP, so it will still kill a decent number of enemy. Other than that, cheap, massed power shots (melta, plasma) will clean up whatever is left. Marbo is nice, too, as he's a cheap and virtually guaranteed annihilation of many BA troops. Any unit that happens to be clumped together due to winning an assault is vulnerable.

If he goes first and deploys on the board, I think I'd spread my army thinly along my table edge. Castling in the corner won't buy much time, and once they close, they will be able to multi-charge and really beat your face. From there, focus your fire on one end of his army. Hopefully, you smash his flank, he advances forward and smashes your opposite flank. Now you have the same basic situation, but he has to advance from one corner of the board all the way across to the other.

If he's going to deepstrike, mystics are obviously handy, but if unavailable, you can castle up and screen with dismounted troops or empty chimeras. He comes in piecemeal, so you should be able to really hurt him with your blasts.

If you go first, you probably don't need to spread out quite so much, but you should still focus fire on one flank and then shift to the other, accepting you'll probably lose part of your opposite flank.

Well, the first thing is if the OP thinks along these lines...

Grimaldi wrote:If BA get the first turn, the guard basically has one turn to completely cripple the BA army, because it only takes a handful of BA assault troops to totally wreck an IG army.

Then the first thing he needs to fix is his attitude problem, or else he's going to start doing stuff like this:

Grimaldi wrote:If he goes first and deploys on the board, I think I'd spread my army thinly along my table edge.

Yes, BA are fast. Yes, if they get first turn they will be on you quickly. No, this does not mean that you should spread out, refuse to move at all, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. The whole point of fast, rush-based armies is to get you to shut down as a commander. It's no help to you if you decide to shut down before the models even hit the board.

The way to handle BA is to ASSUME that you're not going to get lots of turns of long-range shooting, and start from there. This means throwaway squads. This means special weapon spam. This means taking some units that are actually decent in close combat.

BA are just normal marines, except they're fast. This means that they die just like normal marines, except you can't count on turn after turn of long range firepower. Basically, treat a BA army the same way you treat a drop pod army. Abandon hope in long-range guns and really make him pay for being up-close and personal. The guard definitely have the ability to win short-ranged combat over space marines, and BA are no different.

So he gets his 10-man death company into close combat with a front-rank squad turn 2? Time to panic, or time to hit him with a 3x demo charge vet squad or a 10x rough rider squad? So he scouts a baal predetor straight into your lines. Time to panic, or time to throw some melta SWSs at it or charge some meltabombs in? So he looks like he's going to multi-charge your stuff. Time to panic, or time to close ranks so he can only attack one squad at a time, or throw a stubborn power weapon blob in for him to choke on for a few turns?

Seriously, everything BA can do, the guard can counter. You just need to take good equipment and not panic when his stuff suddenly appears in your ranks turn 2. Good list building and cool composure can easily stop a BA player dead.

BA are basically T4 eldar just no one has figured that out as yet.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:

Jaon wrote:Yeah but your totally missing the point here. You can take an assault squad with a powerfist and melta pistol too. Sure, SG have tons of options, but wasting a 2+ save, an angelus bolter and a power weapon as standard is a somewhat useless waste of points.

I have some friends doing quite well running SG as troops with Dante. They are also fearless so can pretty much ignore PSB. The 2+ save is one of their best attributes when teamed up with a Priest. I don't use them but I respect what they can do. If you don't mind running small squads the SG army is solid.

G

Fair point.