Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Was wondering if anyone could help me with a few matters

frost weapons - does taking multiple frost weapons give you str 6 because there is 2 so it is +2 str?

Also wolf scouts- by taking a wolf guard does he gain the infiltrate scout move through cover and behind enemy lines rules or does the wolf scouts lose them?

Many thanks for your help

Attacks are made using a single weapon's special rules, so no, you can't stack the bonuses for multiple Frost blades.


The special rules for a unit apply to that unit. Since the Wolf Guard becomes a part of the unit, they would apply to him as well.

Insaniak you are half right.

Right about the weapons not as right about the WG.

WG have their own special rules and follow them they do not gain the squad they joins special rules. They do not gain Scouts and move through cover when joining wolf scouts any more than they gain Berserk charge and Headstrong when joining Blood claws.

This is evidenced by the Headstrong rule that specifically says a Wolf guard or Independent Character attached to the squad will remove the headstrong restrictions.

It is worth a note that Fire Control with a WG does still work as the long Fang Leader is directing the attacks and the rule specifically states The unit the chooses 2 targets and you assign each model one of the 2 targets to fire at. Any Independent Characters attached to a squad of Long Fangs also get to benefit from the Fire Control Rule.

Kommissar Kel wrote:WG have their own special rules and follow them they do not gain the squad they joins special rules. They do not gain Scouts and move through cover when joining wolf scouts any more than they gain Berserk charge and Headstrong when joining Blood claws.

This is evidenced by the Headstrong rule that specifically says a Wolf guard or Independent Character attached to the squad will remove the headstrong restrictions.

They don't gain Headstrong because the Headstrong entry specifically says that they counteract it. This has no bearing on any other special rules.

I see no reason that other special rules shouldn't apply to them. They are not Independant Characters joined to the unit... they are assigned to the unit and become a part of it. As a part of the unit, they would benefit from the unit's special rules.

The Wolf Guard gain all of the scout abilities because they become a part of the squad. They are not IC so they do not lose or give any special abilities to the squad... In fact, they would gain all attributes that the squad he is joining...

He would be your Sergeant that activates Fire Control for your Long Fangs
He would be your Sergeant that retains all of the: Behind Enemy Lines, Scout, Infiltrate, Stealth...

This particular question is also answered on the SW: Faq

Burntbeard wrote:The Wolf Guard gain all of the scout abilities because they become a part of the squad. They are not IC so they do not lose or give any special abilities to the squad... In fact, they would gain all attributes that the squad he is joining...

He would be your Sergeant that activates Fire Control for your Long Fangs

Sorry, I would have to disagree with you there. The Long Fang Squad Leader is the one that still directs Fire Control. This may seem like I'm nit-picking, but it is an important distinction, as, as per page 28 of Codex: SW: 'As long as the Squad Leader (note, NOT Pack Leader, which would be the attached Wolf Guard) is alive and does not shoot in the shooting phase the unit may split its fire and fire at two different targets instead of one.'
So, if for example, say you had an attached TDA WGPL w/ CML, and the Squad Leader was killed, you would no longer be able to split fire. However, if the WGPL was killed, but not the squad leader, you could still split fire.

insaniak wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:WG have their own special rules and follow them they do not gain the squad they joins special rules. They do not gain Scouts and move through cover when joining wolf scouts any more than they gain Berserk charge and Headstrong when joining Blood claws.

This is evidenced by the Headstrong rule that specifically says a Wolf guard or Independent Character attached to the squad will remove the headstrong restrictions.

They don't gain Headstrong because the Headstrong entry specifically says that they counteract it. This has no bearing on any other special rules.

I see no reason that other special rules shouldn't apply to them. They are not Independant Characters joined to the unit... they are assigned to the unit and become a part of it. As a part of the unit, they would benefit from the unit's special rules.

As a minor point they do not benefit from the Squad Special rules, they just do not prevent the use of them as per the rules change in the GW FAQ. Wolf Guard do not gain Berserk Charge from Blood Claws. They simply do not stop Scout infiltrating because they're magical.

Aramoro

thanks folks, really like the idea of wolf scouts blipping on behind my oppoent and causing mayhem but was bit confused as to wolf guard cheers for clearing that up for me
pity bout the frost weapins though.

Sandyman11 wrote:
Sorry, I would have to disagree with you there. The Long Fang Squad Leader is the one that still directs Fire Control. This may seem like I'm nit-picking, but it is an important distinction, as, as per page 28 of Codex: SW: 'As long as the Squad Leader (note, NOT Pack Leader, which would be the attached Wolf Guard) is alive and does not shoot in the shooting phase the unit may split its fire and fire at two different targets instead of one.'
So, if for example, say you had an attached TDA WGPL w/ CML, and the Squad Leader was killed, you would no longer be able to split fire. However, if the WGPL was killed, but not the squad leader, you could still split fire.

Page 2 of the C: SW Errata:
Q. Can a Long Fang unit benefit from Fire
Control if it has been joined by a Wolf Guard
Pack Leader or Independent Character?
A. Yes indeed.

From my understanding, even though the question is vague and not detailed... which makes it hard to elaborate... but I would say that you could even attach a Rune Priest to a squad of 5 Long Fangs and the Rune Priest would be the one (that would still have to forfeit his shooting phase in order to use [Fire Control])

It can split it's fire but only if the Squad Leader is still alive. The Fire Control rule says 'As long as the Squad Leader is still alive' , The Squad Leader is a specific guy as you can see in the unit entry in the army list. Wolf Guard and IC can gain the benefit of splitting fire but if the squad leader is dead they will not be able to split fire.

Aramoro

The Rune Priest isn't the Squad Leader.

The Squad Leader is the Squad Leader. if he is dead, no splitting fire.

Burntbeard wrote:

From my understanding, even though the question is vague and not detailed... which makes it hard to elaborate... but I would say that you could even attach a Rune Priest to a squad of 5 Long Fangs and the Rune Priest would be the one (that would still have to forfeit his shooting phase in order to use [Fire Control])

Sorry, but this is incorrect. In the Long Fang entry in the codex, there are 5 Long Fangs, and 1 Squad Leader. Only the Squad Leader can forfeit his shooting in order for the 5 Long Fangs to split fire. Just because a Rune Priest is a HQ and an IC doesn't mean that he automatically replaces the duties of the Squad Leader. Think of it this way. The Rune Priest would be spending his time potecting himself against the incursions of Chaos into his mind, and training mostly alone. Whereas the Squad Leader for the Long Fangs would be training with his pack brothers, honing and refining their strategies and tactics in order to utilise their Fire Control ability.
It doesn't matter how many IC's or WGPL you have attached to a Long Fang unit, the Squad Leader must stay alive andf forfeit shooting in order to use Fire Control, no other unit/character is permitted to do so.

the second question in the space wolves FAQ is:
Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard
Pack Leader assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators,
make a move before the game begins because of
its Scouts ability, choose to outflank or use
Behind Enemy Lines?
A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard
Pack Leader is not an Independent Character and
therefore the fact he does not have the Infiltrate
or Scouts ability does not preclude the squad he
has joined from using those abilities.
This is directly copied and pasted from the faq. As to the frost blade question I don't think they stack but I don't know for sure.