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Hiho,

Reasonably locked into the core, but not sure about the configuration of the final element so to speak.

Core:

Big mek - KFF

5x Lootas*
5x Lootas
5x Lootas

19x Shoota boyz (nob, pk, bp)
20x Shoota boyz (nob, pk, bp)**
12x Gretchin (runtherd)

1x Rokkit buggy
1x Rokkit buggy
1x Rokkit buggy

1x Battlewagon (Deffrolla, plank, grabbin klaw, big shoota)
1x Battlewagon (Deffrolla, plank, grabbin klaw, big shoota)

= 1025

* Min loota squads are for maximum ability to split fire and to avoid having a big investment run off the table to a failed leadership test (which is an issue with midsize squads, while big squads obviously cost a lot). Also makes me less prone to a single bad deffgun roll as I'll have 3 rolls per turn.
** I should perhaps remove one Boy from this squad, so that my KFF mek can switch wagons should his ride be destroyed.

Trying to decide between these two alternatives for the final segment:

Option a)
+ Warboss (pk, squig, bp, cybork)

+ 3x Meganobz (1x kombi-rokkit, 1x kombi skorcha)
+ 1x Battlewagon (Deffrolla, plank, grabbin klaw, big shoota)

+ 3x Rokkit buggies (making 3 squads of 2)

= 475

OR

Option b)
+ Warboss (pk, bike, cybork)

+ 5x Nobz (bikes, painboy, cybork, waaagh banner, PK, 2x big choppa, kombi skorcha, kombi rokkit)

= 475

Pros of A = More fire support, more armor saturation*, no really big point sinks anywhere.
Cons of A = No invulnerable save on the MANz means they'd rather not fight anything with a power weapon or fist, which leaves me without a beater unit.

Pros of B = More CC power, a bit faster.
Cons of B = More eggs in one basket, less fire support.

* However a Wagon and a squad of Nob bikers require similar tools to deal with so I'm not sure I consider this a big factor.

Is there anything important I'm missing? It seems like a sort of close choice... I suppose there's a 3rd option of taking regular Nobz in a BW, but it's slightly (not by much however !) less attractive to me in terms of good old fashioned unit favoritism.

Any input appreciated.

Meganobz are tricky cus if your ride gets blown up early, thier almost a waste of point because they may never see action.

I'd personally go with the warboss + nobz on bikes.

I like when you say maximum fire power with lootas; how are you going to get maximum fire power with 5 lootas? Kill just 2 of your lootas and they could run, kill 3 out of 10 lootas and they could run or kill 8 out of 15 lootas and they could run. Only benefit is you lose less points, but they're doing less job. Lootas work in volume of fire power and you need 5+ to hit and you're not going to get many of those out of 15 dice.

I'd go with option B.

I said maximum ability to split fire

I'd rather have 3x5 than 1x15, and as you said yourself - kill 3 out of 10 and they might run, which is quite easy to do but means A LOT more points are running off the table than if you kill 2/5.

I've had good luck with three squads of 5 lootas at 1500 points. How about 5 nobs in battle wagon with warboss? otherwise I think I would go with B also. you gots lots o shooty, you need a little more CC IMHO.

number9dream wrote:I said maximum ability to split fire

I'd rather have 3x5 than 1x15, and as you said yourself - kill 3 out of 10 and they might run, which is quite easy to do but means A LOT more points are running off the table than if you kill 2/5.

If you take bigger and multiple units you still can have maximum ability to spilt fire and get more shots. TBH to cut down investment I run 12 Lootas in a unit which makes them fearless but not as costly as 15 but won't run off as easily as 10. You need to kill 5 of these before they think about running.

Grimgob wrote:I've had good luck with three squads of 5 lootas at 1500 points. How about 5 nobs in battle wagon with warboss? otherwise I think I would go with B also. you gots lots o shooty, you need a little more CC IMHO.

Would you say the 5 nob/BW option is strictly superior to the bikers? I can't say I'd mind that route or anything. Comes out to almost the same points in the end.

However, I think at that point my list would be an exact copy of Kevin Nash's Not that there's anything wrong with that, as it's already pretty darn similar.

Well if something AP4 comes bombing down on your head which denies cover saves your nob bikers are going to feel the pain. Also they can be hit by demolisher, battlecannon shells etc or decent flamers i.e hellhounds which can take wounds off easily or spell instant death.

With nobz in a battlewagon the wagon needs to be destroyed first before they nobz feel the pain.

In assault both have the same assault range, in fact the wagon nobz more because 12" move then 2" disembark and then 6" assault which is 20" while nob bikers is 18". Bonus for nob bikers is they're T5 and not T4, but they don't get a 4+ cover save in combat because you don't get cover saves and that's exactly what the warbiker gives, a cover save no a armour save! So 6+ save for your nob bikers or invest in cybork bodies.

Actually, I believe a warbike offers a 4+ armor save AND a 4+ cover save. If you check a Warbikers profile it says they have a 4+ armor save, isn't this conferred by the warbike?

If I'm wrong on this, it'd definitely make them a bit worse (not that much tho, since they still have a 5+ inv and a FNP roll).

I had a read and it just says 4+ cover save conferred from the warbiker. Doesn't say the word armour save.

Check page 46 of the codex, I think.

Ah yeah, I just spotted the exhaust cloud rule. So you're correct you do get a 4+ armour from the bike along with the 4+ cover as well.