Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No doubt the lists will change a million times when more rules reveal themselves in full, but this is what I have in mind. Ring of Hotek is so ridiculously good in the new edition that it makes me sick. The Black Guard deploy in two ranks of 7 of course and every model get to attack. BSB now allows units to re-roll all LD based tests so its a must take, and the Cauldron's special abilities will come to use too. Crossbowmen are wonderful of course especially with the new Swift Reform rules. The smaller units don't need musicians for the Swift Reform because every model get to attack and shoot in their flanking formation of 2 ranks of 6 models too. The RBT supports the shooting phase. Harpies go warmachine hunting and the two Hydras just melt faces.

-Dreadlord, Death Piercer, Pendant of Khaeleth, HA, Shield, SDC: 535p
Black Dragon

-Death Hag, Cauldron of Blood, Battle Standard: 225p

-20 Crossbowmen, Shields, Standard, Musician: 235p
-20 Crossbowmen, Shields, Standard, Musician: 235p
-12 Crossbowmen: 120p
-12 Crossbowmen: 120p
-8 Harpies: 88p

-14 Black Guard, Standard, Musician, Champion, Ring of Hotek: 242p

-Repeater Bolt Thrower: 100p
-War Hydra: 175p
-War Hydra: 175p

Looks fine to me.

I'm waiting for the PDF to come out before I redo my list (no idea if they will be doing points changes or just rules).

Nice list this looks exactly what i will be using in 8th alot of crossbows and big monsters.

I can't recall if breakpoints round up or down, but if they round down at 2250, then I think that is just right.

In order to win they'll have to kill either both of your characters or one character and BOTH of the big crossbow units. Its pretty doable, but I think having 6 "points" at 2250 is ok for a super killy 'elite' army.

Black guard are going to be the guys you send in to the watchtower, so thats covered. And war hydras should be able to more than handle the post crossbow mop up duties.

Only thing i can think of that might be rough would be mountain pass or deep deployment against a warmachine heavy empire or dwarf army. if they can pick off your harpies its gonna be a long time before you can get those crossbowmen in range of their warmachines.

That is a very small nitpick.... from the little i know about how 8th edition will be shaping up... this looks to be a fantastic starting point.

I can't remember whether I was allowed 50% special or 25% special.

Either way I think I should go with Shades afterall instead of the two smaller Crossbow units. They will add to my missile weapon saturation just like additional Crossbowmen, but since they can scout, they can deploy further than the rest of the army and even go for enemy warmachines if the backfield is unprotected. I have enough missile troops on my deployment zone already and don't want to crowd it.

Can you explain how the Breakpoint thing works? I've no idea.

EDIT: Just realised that if I drop too much core the list isn't legal anymore (less than 25% core).

breakpoint is one of the 6 'balanced' missions...

For every 1000 points the game size is, the target "breaking point" is set at 1.

Generals are worth 2 points
Battle standard bearers are worth 2 points
standards are worth 1 point

When your army is REDUCED to the breakpoint total. Instant game over. Phase out.

So if 2250 is actually set at 2 breakpoints, then when you lose both of your characters or one character and both crossbow blocks, you'll hit your breakpoint.

As scary as that sounds, your opponent is going to have a low total of breakpoints, or he is going to have an overabundance of standards, which hurts him in 5 of the 6 missions. Take him down to his breakpoint before you lose both your characters. That shouldn't be a problem, because you'll probably be forcing him to kill war hydras and RBTs if he doesn't want to get wrecked.

Really 'breakpoint' seems to me like checks and balances against expensive death star generals. You can still take one, and rule people with them, but you are going to have to pay the "tax" of making sure you've got a few standards sprinkled around your army so that a single cannon shot doesn't instantly end one in six games.

I have three standards and two heroes worth 2 each so that's 7 points total, not 6. The opponent needs to kill both of the heroes and an infantry unit (Black Guard or Crossbows), or all the infantry units and still one of the heroes.

The BSB will be bunkered right in the middle of everything. I'll play my Dragon and Hydras aggressively against the opposing break point units. Considering my general has an effective 2+ ward save and a Dragon as a mount with 20" movement it'll be quite a feat to whack him. I think I have plenty of options with the 7 points total. I can't see any situations where I would lose to the break point phase out and not be nearly completely wiped out anyway, so I think I can just not worry about the mission at all. This is of course assuming that the breaking point is 2, meaning rounded down like you said.

As far as the list is concerned, I'm still not sure if I want Shades or not. The skirmisher rules are still very unclear to me.

Therion wrote:I can't see any situations where I would lose to the break point phase out and not be nearly completely wiped out anyway...

Yep. With that third banner that I forgot about I'd agree with this. People will still freak out about this mission, but its very true what you just said. A properly built army that took just a token number of standards will not lose breakpoint games they didn't deserve to lose. I could see an orc and goblin/skaven/empire army having a stupidly high number of points if they just spammed blocks and standards. but thats all peanut butter with no jelly, they won't be able to kill a single thing. And will be majorly disadvantaged in other missions as well.

Therion wrote:The skirmisher rules are still very unclear to me.

you and me both. I'm still struggling to understand why the 'skirmisher' rule has any value at all, they can march and shoot, they move through terrain better, but otherwise act like weakened block infantry? Skirmishing missile units that would have fled from a charge will still work (in fact they gain the ability to actually turn and redirect chargers) But I'm failing to see how melee oriented skirmishers like wardancers/dryads/ghouls could be happy with their new formation rules. Move like a block, but no ranks and no removing of ranks... you better hit HARD and at a high initiative.

For what it's worth, Skirmishers are also Stubborn in woods.

Also, Break points round up. So 2.25k is 3 break points.

Also, Break points round up. So 2.25k is 3 break points.

Well that's an issue. I'd need one more banner then to make the total 8.

I guess the list would be this then. This time with two RBTs and an extra banner. Total points 8. To break in the scenario Shep noticed -> Lord and hero and a block or all four blocks and a lord or hero. Safe and sound. I think this list is pretty sick actually.

I'm also experimenting with a new banner on the Black Guard from the rule book. The Banner of Eternal Flame gives the unit flaming attacks for 10 points. What I'm really looking for are magical attacks for the unit, and if it works that way (as it usually does - flaming and magical), it solves a lot of problems.

Lords
Dreadlord, Crimson Death, Pendant of Khaeleth, Armour of Darkness, RxB: 555p
Black Dragon
Heroes
Death Hag, Battle Standard, Cauldron of Blood: 225p
Core
20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen, Shields, Standard, Musician: 235p
20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen, Shields, Standard, Musician: 235p
14 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen, Standard: 150p
5 Harpies: 55p
Special
14 Black Guard, Standard, Champion, Ring of Hotek, Banner of Eternal Flame: 245p
Rare
Reaper Bolt Thrower: 100p
Reaper Bolt Thrower: 100p
War Hydra: 175p
War Hydra: 175p

Total Points: 2250