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Not really a rules question just more of why do yall think this was made? I've only played 7th edition and only for a couple games, never got competitive with it but I did know what armies were competitive. I just never really thought that breath weapons were such a problem that they needed to be a one shot only. Not really complaining or anything just wanna see what everyone's input is on this.

Personally I believe it was to balance out the auto-hitting templates. However, using the breath weapon in combat is very interesting option. 2D6 hits is probably not going to make any difference in which side wins the combat, but it helps to grind out those large units that are Steadfast against Dragons and such.

Throgg, King of Trolls was rather amusing with one round of 3D6 S5 no armour save autohits. Unfortunately that was not enough to kill Empire Grand Master in challenge yesterday...

What's also interesting is that a Dark Elf Lord on a Dragon can seemingly spew out 4D6 S4 -3 Save hits on a unit in hand-to-hand, alongside his 4 S6, his mount's five S6, and then a final D6 stomp attacks, once per game. 4D6 is an average of 6-8 wounds at -3 (on T4, T3 it jumps to 8-10/11), the nine S6 attacks are about five wounds on average, and then the final D6 hits are 2-4 final wounds for a grand total of 13-17 wounds at -3 to the save.

Breath weapons are limited to once / game for almost exactly that. While you'd only be able to do that once a game anyways (Dark Elf Lord can only breath attack once / game anyways), same with Throgg, getting +2D6 hits a round in combat would be brutal. Furthermore, most people will probably save their Breath Attacks for second rounds and on as - even in the above example with 13-17 wounds - a unit 27 or bigger at combat's start is still Stubborn when they test here and will probably last for another turn. Sacrificing the 6-8 wounds (which should still leave enough for the Dragon Lord to win) this round leaves enough to make up for the next round's lack of a S6 Lord (which would hold true for High Elves as well, the 2D6 making up for the loss of some strength on the Lord).

Breath Weapons are once / game for the above, and the whole "no partials" schtick wherein a (20mm) Horde unit could probably have a good 30% of their number roasted in a single shot, spamming it multiple turns meaning a major loss in effectiveness as the Dragon just flies, roasts, then flies again.

That's why I'm going to be adding Stream of Corruption to my Exalted Hero on a Juggernaut

Even if a DE lord on a dragon crashes in and kills a bunch of dudes, if he is unsupported and the losing side has a rank then guess what... they're still Stubborn.

Off-topic, but is something I've really been intrigued by is how in this Edition you have to have ranks and/or supporting units.

Oh ok I did not know you could use a breath weapon in close combat, and with the new stomp/thundering stomp rules it would prove to be devestating. A quick question a Dragon would use the stomp or thundering stomp?

I believe all of the dragons should get the Thundering Stomp, but from what I understand that will be determined when the pdf file comes out.

I found the Stomp was pretty nasty. I imagine Thundering stomp will be a nice selling point for larger models.

What determines whether you get Thunderous Stomp is your creature type. Everything's creature types is listed in the back of the new BRB.

Oh ok, thanks.

I was really excited about playing my Ogres and getting to use Stomp, but after talking to another Ogre player he says that Ogres suck even more now.

Why would he say that? I don't know if they'll be great, but it certainly seems like they will be better than before!!

not to get even more OT but why would ogres suck even more I figure having a new ability would make them even better?

Killjoy00 wrote:Why would he say that? I don't know if they'll be great, but it certainly seems like they will be better than before!!

Ogres relied on using something like Ironguts to charge in and kill those who would kill them first (remember, no Ogre infantry is tougher than T4 5+ save base in the new edition barring magical buffs or the solitarily-run creatures). Ironguts, instead of doing Front-# impact hits then a solid 9-12 GW attacks to minimize incoming attacks, are now the impact hits, getting struck by everyone, then fighting back. Being T4 with a 5+ save, most enemy units can quite handily cause more wounds than you. Even if you do manage to beat the enemy's static 3 advantage (3 ranks & standard vs standard) plus their active bonus' (often at least one to two), you now are going against them very likely at a Stubborn 9 or 10 leadership. The later rounds, you're now sans two attacks an Ogre from the loss of Bull Charge and Stomp.

EDIT: Anyways, Breath weapons being limited is only going to affect a few armies. I can't think of too many games wherein I saw more than two Breath Attacks, and I can never recall more than three. While it means you're not going to see it used every close combat round, since you couldn't use it in combat anyways it's much less a loss.