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Ok so yesterday I played a small, quick game that had a time constraint, so we were in a rush, as well as having kids running around, so we missed a few things in the game. My main problem was I was basically screwed by the rules for bunkers, I trusted the person to be right, and turned out he was so wrong, it almost seems like a setup.

ANYWHO, Ive since read the rules on bunkers and know for next time but something I didnt see in there was how to handle a unit ontop of the bunker. He had a unit inside, and one on top. So once I destroy the bunker, I understand how it affects units inside, but what about on top? Do they emergency disembark? Does the rules for bunkers effect ANY unit that is inside or ontop, or does it just work for units inside? Id really like to know, specially a pg number where it states it, so next time Im not sitting out in the open, with 2 devastators raining on me (via the wrong rules guy)

I'd use the parapets and battlements rules on page 80. Altho that is still primarily based on a single unit in the bunker. Just apply the results from the damage to both units.
Alternatively, make the top impassable. After all, if your jump troops can't go up there as long as the bunker is occupied, then it only makes sense that his can't either.

Hmmmm, we may have actually found the un-assautable deployment.

I honestly read that last night, about 3 times and missed that one section saying they are treated as being inside, all 3 times
Durp, thanks Don Mondo

KingCracker wrote:Ok so yesterday I played a small, quick game that had a time constraint, so we were in a rush, as well as having kids running around, so we missed a few things in the game. My main problem was I was basically screwed by the rules for bunkers, I trusted the person to be right, and turned out he was so wrong, it almost seems like a setup.

ANYWHO, Ive since read the rules on bunkers and know for next time but something I didnt see in there was how to handle a unit ontop of the bunker. He had a unit inside, and one on top. So once I destroy the bunker, I understand how it affects units inside, but what about on top? Do they emergency disembark? Does the rules for bunkers effect ANY unit that is inside or ontop, or does it just work for units inside? Id really like to know, specially a pg number where it states it, so next time Im not sitting out in the open, with 2 devastators raining on me (via the wrong rules guy)

ONE unit per intact building (as they count as stationary transport vehicles, and this is part of the transport vehicle rules).
If he had TWO units in it, then he was cheating.
If he had ONE unit, with some occupying the roof, then that is allowed. The number of firepoints determines how many models can fire out of the building, but if he has ANY models on the parapet (roof) then ALL models on the roof may fire - BUT the building gains a +1 on the damage chart to destroy it like an open topped vehicle.
Models ON the roof CANNOT be shot at (as they are treated as being INSIDE it) or assaulted as models IN transports CANNOT be targeted with shooting or assaults.

Rules for buildings are on p79.
"... should the building be damaged, and so may suffer damage an/or be forced to disembark ..."

Disembarkation is via the access points (which should have been determined during terrain discussion (What terrain counts as what)) just like a vehicle. It has to have at least ONE access point for troops to get into it, so that's how they get out. If it has more than one, then they use multiple exits.

Why would the building automatically be considered open topped? If the occupier was SM or 3+ armor save then it wouldn't necessarily be open topped for damage purposes. IIRC the 3+ save negates the open top rule for vehicles.

A yup, I knew all that, my question was mainly about the other unit on top. That was answered, but thanks for going the extra mile

I dont mind the extra unit or 2 ontop of the bunker, simply because honestly, why would only 1 unit occupy a giant friggin bunker? 1 inside, 1 ontop, maybe two if the bunker (like ours) is a multi section (meaning the main bunker is a tall building of 2 floors, the second being a smaller shorter 1 floor section)

I probably wouldnt mind the extra units ontop as long as my opponent understands that they too follow the exact same rules for being on the bunker (transport) as the rest of them. Honestly doing that would give ME the advantage, as one stun, would make 2 or 3 units not able to fire, instead of just the one.

Im still not sure if it was an intentional cheat, or not. The person in question isnt one for cheating, but he DOES have a thing for bitching about how space marines should be many many times better, and its "lame" how GW makes Space Marines sissies as he puts it. So not really sure, but the problem has been taken care of.

Sucks too, because Im pretty confident instead of me loosing, it would of been an easy victory for me for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Why would the building automatically be considered open topped? If the occupier was SM or 3+ armor save then it wouldn't necessarily be open topped for damage purposes. IIRC the 3+ save negates the open top rule for vehicles.

Because thats how the rules are played. If members of the unit are on top of the building, they can shoot out at me, but I cant shoot them until the building is destroyed. All it does is add +1 to the damage table is all.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Why would the building automatically be considered open topped?

It's not. But you get a +1 to the damage roll, which is the same as for an open-topped vehicle.

If the occupier was SM or 3+ armor save then it wouldn't necessarily be open topped for damage purposes. IIRC the 3+ save negates the open top rule for vehicles.

That rule doesn't actually exist anymore outside of the Daemon Hunters codex...

Out of curiosity, does the planetstrike book give any additional rules for bunkers since it features the bastion models?

Only that the Fortress of Redemption counts as three seperate bunkers for units within.

Bah, lame. I always thought the 40k building/bunker rules were a bit weak.

Oh dear, your starting to sound like my brother. Before we know it youll be complaining about everything and that you should just re write the whole rule book. In your favor of course, but re write it completely none the less

A bunker is essentially a vehicle, right? Vehicles would have designated fire points and be either open-topped or not. Bunkers should follow the same rules, and of course you should make sure that you and your opponent agree on these points.

Personally, I wouldn't allow a unit to "split up" with some models on the roof and some inside since models are either embarked or disembarked. I would allow a complete unit on the top of a bunker, but would count it as open topped as a result. Also, unless indicated otherwise (like the Fortress of Redemption), only one unit can be embarked in a vehicle at a time.

The bastions only allow one unit in them and you get +1 if they are hanging out on top. Same as the rule book. Its your bro I just suggest you make a rule with him to decide what happens.

Lorne wrote:Its your bro I just suggest you make a rule with him to decide what happens.

This.

Though for what its worth, I always thought that bunkers following vehicles rules was a bit weak. They should at least have structure points. But that's for the world of proposed rules.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Personally, I wouldn't allow a unit to "split up" with some models on the roof and some inside since models are either embarked or disembarked. I would allow a complete unit on the top of a bunker, but would count it as open topped as a result. Also, unless indicated otherwise (like the Fortress of Redemption), only one unit can be embarked in a vehicle at a time.

But the unit is not splitting up, it is still considered to be inside the bunker. You still cannot target the models on the roof.

Gavin Thorne wrote:A bunker is essentially a vehicle, right? Vehicles would have designated fire points and be either open-topped or not. Bunkers should follow the same rules, and of course you should make sure that you and your opponent agree on these points.

Buildings aren't designated as open topped. But having models on parapets or balconies gives a +1 to damage rolls against the building.

Personally, I wouldn't allow a unit to "split up" with some models on the roof and some inside since models are either embarked or disembarked.

The building rules allow you to do this.

insaniak wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't allow a unit to "split up" with some models on the roof and some inside since models are either embarked or disembarked.

The building rules allow you to do this.

Indeed! Look at page 80 under 'Parapets and Battlements'.

Uhg I cant believe this is still raging lol.