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What I would have preferred is that they separated the background from the rules/ painting sections and put it all in a new book.

They then advanced the storyline by say 10 years, giving each army a brand new focus inside a new setting.

This has several advantages:

Firstly, the number of people buying the rules increases because it's now (guess) £20 cheaper. Hopefully people who are not so much interested in the rules side would actually have a reason to buy *something* (the other book).

Secondly, it would mean that they could update the warhammer world fluff a lot quicker than waiting 4 years, and it would mean things could actually evolve in the warhammer world. It would give people a reason to follow the changes in the fluff, because now there's unlikely to be another campaign, there is no impetus for anything to ever change in a significant way again.

Thirdly, it would allow them to generate new campaign ideas by linking the books, new units, ways for people to theme armies etc. Not to mention the fact that it could rejuvenate the game every now and then. So it would prove a lot more profitable in the long run for them.


Basically, I think GW created an awesome setting for the game, but have forced people to have absolutely zero ability to see it develop, when it could be so different... They support the rules, and the models, but let the background stagnate simply because they are too short sighted to see the potential.

A real wasted opportunity.

It's true, they could develop the story more- but I don't see that it needs to be done in the main rulebook. I kind of like having all the pretty pictures, etc in it, and to add in a campaign or the like would just add even more (which imho wouldn't be a bad thing). But I'm not sure why they can't release a separate campaign? Sort of like "The Battle for Armageddon" but for fantasy.

I'm just happy with the book as it is, I guess . Sure they could have done more, but GW won't mind putting out (and selling!) another book with a campaign in the future as an add-on or the like.

I think the story actually progesses all the time. It's a history that they constantly fill in the back story to, adding new stuff in each army book that comes out.

I think the story progress through other channels than the game as well. Lots of good fluff in stuff like the Gotrek and Felix books and other novels, and the special editions from BL. Hopefully soon we get some chaos dwarf stuff from FW.

There's always going to be missed opportunities, depending on what each of us want to see the company do. Personally, I'm having a great time playing the game so far. Very much like the feeling I got first playing it over 20 years ago.

over like 4 or 5 hundred years of time have passed since 3rd edition. Stuff progresses, the problem is: The world is so deadlocked in war, you could progress 10,000 years on this planet and they'd still be fighting with the same gak. Just new characters holding it.

There is no greater incentive for technological progress than war.
Well, yes, a space race works too

In the Old World, there is nothing but war........

dietrich wrote:In the Old World, there is nothing but war........

QFT. Seriously, IDK why everyone whines about this not being true. It's a bit like complaining about 40k being too grimdark despite it basically creating the grimdark meme.
What really needs to be updated? There's not much progression being that every race either wages war because they can (VC, Daemons, O&G, Ogres) or because they are defending (pretty much everyone else.)
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

The story of both 40k and Warhammer needs to be advanced, things need to happen. Major things, it's just getting so stale at the moment....

Again, war is not a reason for technological stagnation.

In fact the opposite is true. The rate of change is debatable but it will still happen.
Economic stagnation or regression is another question.
Over time there will also be political change.

I don't understand why it is such a problem to ask why there is no fluff development and no-one is whining about constant war not being true.

Personally I have no problems wether the fluff stays the same or not, as usual there will be pluses and minuses if it does change.

I see it a bit different.

1.) As always, there will be a separate rulebook in the starter, available on ebay without the rest of the starter set. So people who don't care about the fluff part can buy this version (two months later). And it will be 10-20 $ max.

2.) In this specific case, background is just a few pages in the book, not economical to produce in a separate book. Everyone interested will buy the army books. The focus on the non-rule part is introductions to the background of each army, to modelling, to how the models of each army look and lots of game relevant info on advanced scenarios. Generally this book is made to create enthusiasm for the game itself and for each army, even the ones you were not planning to have a look at. This definitely belongs into a basic book on the game. And GW does it well in 8th edition. Esp. when you combine it with the new templates and stuff.
You have to have the modelling and background in the basic book to show new gamers how deep the hobby can be. They wouldn't see it if they had to buy this information extra.

3.) 40k and Warhammer are a delicately balanced setting for the game, so changing the setting is difficult and will probably lead to protest by many gamers liking the current setting. A setting is not meant to develop, it is just a stable background for the games. What you are looking for is campaign books, that are allowed to tell a different story like Storm of Chaos. If all major characters survive, there will be complains about static background and an irrelevant campaign. If a major character dies, the fans of him will protest.

Guess, creating a different setting is something, that fans should try out just for fun. Like the alternative Mordheim setting in the East. This is maybe better than letting Mat Ward write the background to show how ueber his favorite race is

Kroothawk wrote:I see it a bit different.

1.) As always, there will be a separate rulebook in the starter, available on ebay without the rest of the starter set. So people who don't care about the fluff part can buy this version (two months later). And it will be 10-20 $ max.

2.) In this specific case, background is just a few pages in the book, not economical to produce in a separate book. Everyone interested will buy the army books. The focus on the non-rule part is introductions to the background of each army, to modelling, to how the models of each army look and lots of game relevant info on advanced scenarios. Generally this book is made to create enthusiasm for the game itself and for each army, even the ones you were not planning to have a look at. This definitely belongs into a basic book on the game. And GW does it well in 8th edition. Esp. when you combine it with the new templates and stuff.
You have to have the modelling and background in the basic book to show new gamers how deep the hobby can be. They wouldn't see it if they had to buy this information extra.

3.) 40k and Warhammer are a delicately balanced setting for the game, so changing the setting is difficult and will probably lead to protest by many gamers liking the current setting. A setting is not meant to develop, it is just a stable background for the games. What you are looking for is campaign books, that are allowed to tell a different story like Storm of Chaos. If all major characters survive, there will be complains about static background and an irrelevant campaign. If a major character dies, the fans of him will protest.

Guess, creating a different setting is something, that fans should try out just for fun. Like the alternative Mordheim setting in the East. This is maybe better than letting Mat Ward write the background to show how ueber his favorite race is

Very well put. Couldn't agree more.

Battletech moved it's storyline up successfully in a ridiculously more complex universe. Battletech made far less money; how hard could it be?

They did advance the story for Warhammer (Storm of Chaos) and then immediately retconned it out.

Considering that there are several dead characters around already (not just VC and TK), I think them killing off characters is not a great issue really.

They've been encouraging people to play historical games for years.

Having the 'story' fixed by the rulebook means nothing at all of significance will happen again (as campaigns are gone). For those happy to stay in the build up to SoC forever this is obviously fine, but imo this is the wrong approach.

Why could they not adapt the setting a little to a new level of stability? Maybe bring them more like a minute to midnight? It could open up huge potential for development.

I can make my own stories...my own fluff. I just want cool models and an affordable rulebook. Anything they come up with that tries to stymie my creativity or limit my options I can do without.