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HQ Pts
Farseer: Jetbike, Fortune, ROWarding, ROWitnessing 140
Warlocks 7: Jetbike, 3 Destructor, Embolden, Enhance 365
Autarch: Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Laserlance, Fusion Gun 140

Elites
Fire Dragons 5 80
Fire Dragons 5 80

Troops
Dire Avengers 5 60
Dire Avengers 5 60
Dire Avengers 5 60

Heavy support
Fire Prism 115
Fire Prism 115
Nightspinner 115

Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 110
Wave serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 110

Total
1970

So I have 30 points left to spend.....it could be spirit stones on all 3 HS tanks, but that seems kinda a waste since IME fire prisms dont need it, and I havent run the spinner but I dont see it needing it either. I dont have enough points to get another jetlock, or enough points to get a second power on the farseer. I dont physically own any more underslung shuriken cannons so I cant do that. I could make 1 FD unit have an exarch with flamer, but never found that unit to work well. I honestly dont know where to spend these points......or conversely where to save 15 points to get another jetlock.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me, while I am not the biggest fan of prisms over nightspinners... Nightspinners don't provide much to this list, you have an entirely meched up force, so I would stick to a third prism.

You could...:

Get two more destructors.

That way you have more killing power if they end up not killing any.

/shrugs

Good luck either way.

heh, the entire eldar codex is cut and dry

I could add "unique" units, but frankly find they dont do enough or anything at all. I mean, Ive used storm guardians in the past with some success,, but they are just okay.

I think the night spinner might be nice against anything not meched up, but even than, tanks still take dangerous terrain and can get immobilised. But things like: seer councils, nob bikers, anything cavalry, etc will move through DT and than dangerous. So it can be nasty.


Any suggestions for alterations? Im not super limited on models, but this is fairly close to the extent of things I do own (other than a falcon)

Mafty wrote:heh, the entire eldar codex is cut and dry

I could add "unique" units, but frankly find they dont do enough or anything at all. I mean, Ive used storm guardians in the past with some success,, but they are just okay.

I think the night spinner might be nice against anything not meched up, but even than, tanks still take dangerous terrain and can get immobilised. But things like: seer councils, nob bikers, anything cavalry, etc will move through DT and than dangerous. So it can be nasty.


Any suggestions for alterations? Im not super limited on models, but this is fairly close to the extent of things I do own (other than a falcon)

No, my list is almost the same thing.

As for alterations? Not really, other than personal preference. Destructors is the only thing I am 100% your list could use, either that, or some stones.

yea, thats probably what will happen......that or I try and free up points for another warlock? Either way.....I think Im going to give the spinner a try, I know the internet is on the hate train, but I think it has its place, and my list has tons of AT as it is, and lacks anything to kill groups of people, and this thing could really bug hordes.

I'd take embolden twice as its the most important Warlock power in your list.

I'm a night spinner hater. lol. I really think a third prism would do just as good as the night spinner. I would take a strength 5 ap 4 large blast over a strength 6 ap - blast any day, even if it is rending.

Spirit stones FTW.

G

matthc wrote:I'm a night spinner hater. lol. I really think a third prism would do just as good as the night spinner. I would take a strength 5 ap 4 large blast over a strength 6 ap - blast any day, even if it is rending.

its not that im after, its the rest everyone seems to forget: dangerous and difficult terrain , oh and TW that rending hit is abrrage, so yea no save ever, unless its invul, or your in some woods.

"oh and TW that rending hit is abrrage, so yea no save ever"

I don't understand this.....

matthc wrote:"oh and TW that rending hit is abrrage, so yea no save ever"

I don't understand this.....

I dont understand it either and I wrote it. Not sure where I was going with that.

Should have read:

"Oh and that rending hit is barrage, so no save, unless its invul or your in the woods"

So wait where does it say that a barrage weapon is AP 2 or bypasses armor saves?

I'm currently under the impression that once you hit, you then roll to wound. On to wound rolls of a 6, you cause a rending wound, which negates armor saves. How am I wrong?

matthc wrote:So wait where does it say that a barrage weapon is AP 2 or bypasses armor saves?

I'm currently under the impression that once you hit, you then roll to wound. On to wound rolls of a 6, you cause a rending wound, which negates armor saves. How am I wrong?

you arent.....but rending doesnt allow a save, which is why I said what I said lol. I think were disagreeing and agreeing on the same thing

I know that the rending roll of a 6 negates all saves, yet I would rather have an a.p. value that negates 1/2 of all saves (4+ or greater) all the time ass opposed to all saves 1/6 of the time. Even if you don't like it you could use it to boost the other prism's shots a.p. and strength. I guess it all comes down to opinion though.

Mafty, I am pro-nightspinner. Tyranids are starting to do very well, all over the country. Quickly getting on top of the termagant count before you become hopelessly swamped is vital.

But I also think all of your serpents need at least EMLs. Since you are running 2x5 fire dragons I'd say be cheap and run the EML. I don't think they need to undersling cannons. But i don't hate it either.

I don't see that autarch very often, and i think you might be troop light. I might trade that dude in for 2x3 guardian jetbikes.

Other than that, I'd say you are open for business.

I've play tested the Nightspinner and I personally am a big fan. You have a good chance at negating some armor saves with rending and DnD, while not suffering from the single shot scatter syndrome.

2 Prisms and 1 NS is the optimal config.

Shep wrote:Mafty, I am pro-nightspinner. Tyranids are starting to do very well, all over the country. Quickly getting on top of the termagant count before you become hopelessly swamped is vital.

But I also think all of your serpents need at least EMLs. Since you are running 2x5 fire dragons I'd say be cheap and run the EML. I don't think they need to undersling cannons. But i don't hate it either.

I don't see that autarch very often, and i think you might be troop light. I might trade that dude in for 2x3 guardian jetbikes.

Other than that, I'd say you are open for business.

They do have EMLs.....Except for the fire dragons, which usually end up wrecked because of how close they need to get, so no sense wasting points on guns I never get to use. The ones that play further back all get EMLs. If I drop the 3 underslungs, that opens up a nice 60 points.

I guess my problem is that I haven't actually gotten around to playtesting it. Lol. That is probably a big problem.

Mafty wrote:

Shep wrote:Mafty, I am pro-nightspinner. Tyranids are starting to do very well, all over the country. Quickly getting on top of the termagant count before you become hopelessly swamped is vital.

But I also think all of your serpents need at least EMLs. Since you are running 2x5 fire dragons I'd say be cheap and run the EML. I don't think they need to undersling cannons. But i don't hate it either.

I don't see that autarch very often, and i think you might be troop light. I might trade that dude in for 2x3 guardian jetbikes.

Other than that, I'd say you are open for business.

They do have EMLs.....Except for the fire dragons, which usually end up wrecked because of how close they need to get, so no sense wasting points on guns I never get to use. The ones that play further back all get EMLs. If I drop the 3 underslungs, that opens up a nice 60 points.

Against IG, every single strength 8 shot you can have is valuable. Energy shield actually makes it so that close up wave serpents are almost as hard to kill as long range ones. Why not keep that pressure on them and make them get past that energy field to stop another strength 8 twin linked shot from hitting them?

If you keep spamming shuriken cannons I might have to retract my night spinner endorsement.

Gotta agree with Mafty and respectfully disagree with Shep: those Dragon Serpents wille ither be moving too fast or getting blown up, so EMLs there will be a waste.

Overall, looks good Mafty. Lean and mean, which Eldar absolutely have to be in order to be competitive these days (but you know that).

As for the Autarch, that is a useful place to find more points. Only scrap the shuricannons if you need more than 170 total.

If you yank the Autarch though, you might want to stick one more Warlock into the unit. Honestly you could even lose one of your Destructors (3 is only marginally better than 2 in most cases) and the RoWitnessing for the extra points to get 2x3 jetbikes with shuricannons and another bikelock. More scoring is always good. Also keeping a bikelock unit at 9 is also good. More hitiness in CC is really really helpful against MEQ with those guys, more than increased numbers of flamer templates etc.

And stones are always useful on skimmertanks period: they keep you tank-shocking until you blow up, and allow damaged tanks to move into cover/out of range to recover their shootiness.Don't leave home without 'em unless you really, really need them elsewhere. And if you find you don't use 'em, that probably means you aren't tank-shocking enough! Sneaky long-distance last-turn tanks shock is the one thing our poor old codex still has over the younger races....

Yea I dont own 6 regular jetbikes lol, and not something im 100% interested in buying either. I think I own 3, but if I need to pull from that to make more jetlocks, than I wouldnt be able to make a unit anymore.

I think pulling the only PW from the jetlocks might not be a good call.....I realize hes 140 points, but hes 6 PW attacks at S6 on the charge.....hardly anything to snuff at. He has the attacks of TWO warlocks, but PW (obviously no S9 on vehicles, but the other 8 make up for that)


Ill see what 60 points can find me....I could bump up some of my troops, like getting storm guardians with tri flamer.....Altough they usually die right after they do that lol.

Yeah, honestly the Council rarely lack in hitting power even without the Autarch. Also, the Autarch's a lot less helpful if the combat gets protracted. he does have grenades, which are helpful when charging into cover (about 1/3rd the time when a good opponent see you coming).

You're right that bumping up the Troops is a good idea, as only 3 units at 2K is a bit iffy. Another 5x DA plus EML Serpent would probably work if you have the models, but will require scrapping the shuricannons on 2 of your other Serpents. I dunno- to me another scoring unit, another S8 shot and another unit of anti-infantry fire are well worth the Autarch and 2 shuricannons. But YMMV.

Really, you're balancing a Deathstar approach vs. lots of troops plus questionable hitting power. It might suit you best to playtest each list and see which suits your playstyle best. If you're calculating and use every ounce of resource well, more Troops is a good idea. If you're a blitzkrieg player, go for the deathstar.

Let us know how it does, please!

I'm pro for a Night Spinner.
So I'd take 2 Prisms and 1 Spinner.

Im thinking of doing this slight modification, which actually puts me closer to 2k anyways:

HQ Pts
Farseer: Jetbike, Fortune, ROWarding, ROWitnessing 140
Warlocks 6: Jetbike, 3 Destructor, 2 Embolden, Enhance 325
Autarch: Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Laserlance, Fusion Gun 140

Elites
Fire Dragons 5 80
Fire Dragons 5 80

Troops
Storm Guardians 10: Warlock, Destructor, 2 x Flamer 127
Dire Avengers 5 60
Dire Avengers 5 60

Heavy support
Fire Prism 115
Fire Prism 115
Nightspinner 115

Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: EML, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 140
Wave serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 110
Wave serpent: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 110

Total
1997


So I cut a warlock from the HQ, to make it 6 warlocks, and an 8 man council. By doing this I was able to free up the points to make the DAVU a 10 man storm squad.