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Just rolled to set terrain and got a 6, which means we had to put down 10 pieces of terrain, add to that, when we rolled one of the pieces, it ended up double 6s which is a Chaos encampment (D3 buildings and D3 obstacles) so overall in our fantasy game, we have 12 pieces of terrain, thats more than alot of 40k games. Does anybody else wonder if the D6+4 pieces is a typo, D3+4 would have made more sense to me

Since you dont suffer nearly as much movement penalties going through terrain now its not a big deal. Im actuall looking forward to a decent amount of terrain being put on the table. Im also looking forward to the fact that terrain does something other than potentially slow you down.

OH look angry pissed off forest RUNNNNNN

A lot of people feel it makes no sense. A few people are just blindly going "OMG TERRAIN IT NOT FANTASY NO MORE," but just as many (if not more) are resorting to ad hominems / red herrings if someone tries to say that they don't want nine or ten pieces on the table.

my problem with it is that its going to slow the game, what a pain to move my block of 50 zombies across a forest, sure it doesnt impede movements, but I literally cannot fit my movement tray in the woods. alot of our woods at the store are glued to bases so we can't move around alot of them to fit trays and models

Minsc wrote:A lot of people feel it makes no sense. A few people are just blindly going "OMG TERRAIN IT NOT FANTASY NO MORE," but just as many (if not more) are resorting to ad hominems / red herrings if someone tries to say that they don't want nine or ten pieces on the table.

Meh im just stating it feels kind of interesting with the new terrain rules.

Imagine in the fantasy universe, your trecking through the forest and you are noticing a lot of speckled mushrooms growing all over the place. Slowly you start to feel woozy as you breathe in the spores and they attack you mind. Suddenly you look around and your all alone, where did your unit go.

Or you walk up to a mystical ruin and as you get closer you feel power radiating from it. You look at your comrades and notice your sorcerer has starting glowing with as if being fueled by an unseen force!

Same with rivers, you attempt to cross a normal looking river when suddenly you hear a hissing and the river begins boiling uncontrollably, you scream as you begin to be cooked alive!

Gotta look at it from a fluff point of view!

As for the forest thing, we use big pieces of green felt with trees placed on them to represent forest, if we are moving a big unit through we just move the trees for a bit.

Sounds like they are trying to make it more like an RPG with miniatures than a tabletop wargame...

I have to admit that, from what I've heard (book arriving tomorrow hopefully), I think that I will hate/hate/hate terrain setup in 8th. I like modeling my terrain and painting it appropriately. If I put down a wood with loads of bones and skulls, then I'm fine with it being a haunted wood. I don't need, want, or like, a chart which tells me what kind of wood it is.

Again, perhaps you can choose the types of terrain that you use, rather than relying on the charts (I'm sure in a friendly game in my house I will), but the idea of a chart telling me what the terrain should be encourages me to STOP buying, building, and painting terrain, and to just use squares of colored felt for everything. If I'm going through the trouble of having an orc village, a ruined chaos temple, a watchtower, a coaching inn, a chapel, a dwarf brewhouse, and different looking forests (some with just leaves and woods, others with shields and armor piles, others with bones), then I'm going to HAVE things like an orc village, a chaos temple, a watchtower, a chapel, a dwarf brewhouse, a coaching inn, and different types of woods IN my games. If I don't have a river (I do, but, for purposes of argument), I'm not going to have one no matter what a chart says.

Now, if 8th provides a list of different special terrain features you can use (like the few special terrain features in 7th), I'll be very happy. However, I'm NOT going to let the rulebook dictate my terrain collection, nor do I want a rulebook which encourages me to ignore the actual terrain on the board for the purposes of the game.

I think that the new terrain rules plus the new scenarios are multiplying the fun of Warhammer Fantasy games: Much more atmosphere, much more variety. All previous editions were too much running into the middle and brawl for my taste.

Sergeant Horse wrote: alot of our woods at the store are glued to bases so we can't move around alot of them to fit trays and models

That sounds like your first problem. Building Fantasy terrain is going to take on a different attribute or feel to make it playable in 8th.

I don't like the Mysterious Terrain mostly because it'll be so prevalent. Why exactly is Athel Loren special now, besides the fact that it has Elves living in it? Why is Lustria a particularly devastating jungle now, when things are worse in the Old World and there are blood-sucking trees that crawl away when full?

Agree not to play mysterious terrain if it's a friendly game.

Alternatively come up with your own variations. Roll a D6 or D3 and possibly have positive outcomes.

The world of fantasy is your (maneating) oyster.

If it's mandatory in tournaments and random pick-up games (standard rules are used) then it looks absolutely slowed.

5 out of 6 forests on the table EACH have their own crazy magic nonsense.

This would make sense if it was one specific special mission such as "Attacking the Chaos Wastes!" or something.
But no, if it's regular... there's not a village in the entire world where at least half of the patches of trees randomly murder people who step into them.

It made sense that maybe marching a large formation into dense trees slows them down.

It does not make sense that it's a rarity for terrain to actually be terrain rather than Special Rules orgy.

I remember a particular lord of the rings forest that got royally pissed off and attacked some dude in a tower....

ShivanAngel wrote:I remember a particular lord of the rings forest that got royally pissed off and attacked some dude in a tower....

Even in Lord of the Rings, only a few specific forests do anything. Pretty much the equivalent of fighting in the Wood Elf forest or the Chaos waste forests. Normal people (Non-wood elves) naturally choose a place to live that's hells-away from any weird-forest.

But most battles wouldn't happen there. If 2 out of 3 times they stepped into an empty forest, people just start falling dead, they wouldn't go to war there, at all.

Almost all large-scale warhammer-style battles would take place in either open fields/plains or forests which the local towns already know are harmless.

I just can't see how the change improves gameplay OR story fluff, because it's nothing but more randomness for gameplay (no one ever remembers that small hedge outside of their town KILLS PEOPLE) and having the battlefield contain 6-8 different types of RARE terrain doesn't make sense.

What army of Bretonnians goes, "Hey, let's go attack <RACE>, there's some nice field with VOLCANOS, QUICKSAND, GHOST TREES, and EXPLODING BUSHES that'll really be good to take control of. We won't let them steal our TREES WHICH DRINK BLOOD"

TheBloodGod wrote:
If it's mandatory in tournaments and random pick-up games (standard rules are used) then it looks absolutely slowed.
... there's not a village in the entire world where at least half of the patches of trees randomly murder people who step into them.

I am soooo glad I am not the only one who feels this way. I have to live with Micromanaging at work, I don't need GW trying to micromanage my gaming. And I had such plans to participate in tournaments...ah, the best laid plans of mice and men. I am hoping that the errata for Beastmen will saying something about a forest dwelling race being able to actually get around in a forest without too much difficulty...

Cam2designs wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:
I am hoping that the errata for Beastmen will saying something about a forest dwelling race being able to actually get around in a forest without too much difficulty...

well forests dont impede your movement in any way its the constant... "ooooh mysterious forest, roll for it" that you need to do with EVERY forest and river, thats a bit over the top

Think I'd play most of my games with normal forests, but then again, my WE list is based around hiding about in the forest and I don't want random rules screwing with me, so I might be a bit biased. Just a bit. A GW staffer said once that if you set up in a wood, you ignore the "mysterious" bit, so I'd be using that rule. Some mysterious forests on the table does sound fun, though, especially as I can move one into base contact with your or my units, triggering the effect.

The large amount of terrain seems bad at first, but as stated earlier in the thread, many movement penalties are gone. Furthermore, we've got true LOS now, so if you're into hiding, like me, a small amount of terrain is going to make it almost impossible not to be seen.

Perhaps tourneys will have special rules on mysterious terrain. I think reacting to unexpected situations is part of the game, and tests your ability as a general. But that's just me.

I've only played 8th a few times now, but some of my favorite parts has been setting up the terrain with the random generator and actually interacting with the terrain during the game!

7th was way too much "Trees, avoid." and "Hills, shooty guys stand here." This was a great move on GW's part. This is fun!

It is fun, potentially loosing a game because a random bit of terrain ate a critical unit? Or winning a game not because you outgeneraled the other guy, but because he had bad luck with random terrain?

Crapshammer is not my cup of tea, thank you. I'll just go down to the boat and gamble for real if I want to win or loose at the toss of the die.

Vulcan wrote:It is fun, potentially loosing a game because a random bit of terrain ate a critical unit? Or winning a game not because you outgeneraled the other guy, but because he had bad luck with random terrain?

You know which terrain pieces have random effects before the game. Running a critical unit into mysterious terrain IS bad generalship. Additionally, I have won games in the past not because I have outgeneraled the other guy, but because he had bad luck with his "to hit" rolls.

I ask you now, what is the difference?

Boost One wrote:

Vulcan wrote:It is fun, potentially loosing a game because a random bit of terrain ate a critical unit? Or winning a game not because you outgeneraled the other guy, but because he had bad luck with random terrain?

You know which terrain pieces have random effects before the game. Running a critical unit into mysterious terrain IS bad generalship. Additionally, I have won games in the past not because I have outgeneraled the other guy, but because he had bad luck with his "to hit" rolls.

I ask you now, what is the difference?

^This.

This is a game of dice. There is always a chance that a poor roll will end the game for you(my bloody dice always seem dead set on rolling 1s-3s when I'm rolling my Ogres to hit rolls).

Durkon Thundershield said:
Tha trees be attackin!! Run fer yer Lives!!

Suddenly, Dwarves seem much more reasonable.

third game of 8th, and counting, I tied... the temple of skulls! It ate both of our generals, including the wizard lord who had recently turned into a mountain chimera and ate half the opposing army and a bloodthirster. It also ate two unit champions (a move of questionable legality, but, eh, whatever) I suppose that is just what you get when asking the chaos gods for handouts (and tempting the dice gods)

I can see that keeping track of all these crazy pieces of terrain when they're on the table is going to be annoying. Maybe people will make some cards or something and slap them down next to the terrain piece with the rules for the craziness written on them.

I am kind of excited about terrain not slowing down movement nearly as much as it did before. Though there was a certain element of simulation to it in previous editions of WFB, it just wasn't fun to have a block of infantry move through a wood for three turns and then never get to fight anything.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Dicehammer!

Where painstakingly crafted miniatures balance precariously on YET ANOTHER piece of miniature-unfriendly terrain.

Where generals decide on a battlefield not on their ability to easily move and control their formations but on how pretty it looks ("Oooh. Shiny!).

Where infantry phalanxes charge unimpeded through a dense forest at a target that they can see quite clearly (or even worse at a target that Charlie on the end barely glimpsed around the edge.)
.
Where every rock and tree has the potential to kill the most hardened warrior.

Fantasy not fantastic enough? Visit the Wonderful World of Dicehammer!

(this has been an unpaid apolitical denouncement.)

Just wait till GW start selling uber realistic battery operated terrain that will randomly nom nom your minis
when detected in its vicinity!

Forest Trerrain that will get up and walk across the table of it's own accord.

Great yawning cracks that appear in the RoB to swallow entire units whole.

Available only at GW stores, batteries not included.

Regarding the crazy terrain effects, I foresee tourney organizers reining this in a bit...

What winds me up was Jervis's proclamation in Standard Bearer a month or so ago that terrain on the battlefield should have something of a theme rather than being completely random (although that said, his themed example looked more of a mess than his random one).

With random terrain, you suddenly have blood forests wondering through a village square with a mystic portal spewing out spells at the inhabitants. Yep, that's just where I would have chosen to build my settlement.

At the end of the day though, this is all optional. You don't have to use mystical terrain.

Flashman wrote:At the end of the day though, this is all optional. You don't have to use mystical terrain.

Hide and watch. I'm sure some 'genius' TO is gonna decide that it's "fun" and force it on the players. "And so it begins."

Don't like it? Agree not to use it. Nuff said.