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There is no more guessing which makes cannons stone throwers and stuff like that really good.But forests also don't block line of sight in 8th you just get soft cover so that makes weapons like cannons so good.I want to get your thoughts on it?Are gun lines going to be the Winner of tournaments?

No, because they took a heavy nerf in damaging capabilities. It was about six-to-seven kills on a T4 unit last edition with a direct, perfect hit, and eight-to-nine on a T3. This edition it's about 10 wounds on a T3 unit with a perfect hit... but full saves: 5+ save Swordsmen bump it down to between six and eight wounds (or on average less damage than last edition). T4 is only about seven wounds with a perfect hit, and after a 5+ save is dropped between four and six casualties.

That and anyone decent playing a gunline or who used a lot of guess weapons could put it right where he wanted to anyway....

ShivanAngel wrote:That and anyone decent playing a gunline or who used a lot of guess weapons could put it right where he wanted to anyway....

I wouldn't say that: You could put it roughly in the right place, but it was a godly guess if you smacked it dead, 100% center on the model (practically the only way to get 21 hits). Still, for the most part you're right: A competent commander last edition could get just as many wounds on a unit of Chaos Warriors / Dwarves / Saurus last edition as they can this edition, if not slightly more (last edition 6-7 dead Dwarves, this edition 3-5).

Well, I think the main problem with these weapons is that artillery die; 2-10" is a big window, and when you're rolling two of 'em for your cannon, there's a lot that can go wrong. Most of the guys around here that used guess range stuff were pretty good at it (I lost a lone wizard to a Doom Diver on multiple occasions), but that drift/bounce thing was random enough to keep gun lines in...line, I guess.

So will they get better? I would imagine so, but not by a whole lot. Then again, if heavy cavalry truly cannot march, I would expect to see a lot more gun lines anyway. Which is unfortunate, in my opinion. It is intensely frustrating to play against someone who doesn't participate in the movement phase. I've even lost in timed tournaments to Dwarf and Empire players who took so long to play that I never got the chance to close with 'em.

It's much easier to kill the crew these days too.

So they had to be powerd up some how.

Ragnar4 wrote:It's much easier to kill the crew these days too.

So they had to be powerd up some how.

The only thing they're powered up on is Direct Hits. Nothing else has improved barring you attacking low-toughness (2 or 3) small base / multi-wound (20mm / Swarms) low / nil save (Gnoblar) units. A Stone Thrower hit will bounce off 8/9ths the Chaos Warriors they hit, barring the one in the center.

Very true. Cannons, on the other hand, will still rock. And bolt throwers got the least bump in power, in that there are more of them, but are probably still overall the best, because they aren't so random.

I'm glad that cannons and stone throwers are better. I mean, it's a CANNON. Now, I might be afraid of them.

actuallt, until the errata atleast, there are less High Elf RBT as you can only take two of any rare choice thus only two HE bolt throwers.

Eh. True. But honestly, I find dwarf 'throwers to be much more effective and durable, and those are the ones we can see a lot more of than usual with 7th.

Arion wrote:actuallt, until the errata atleast, there are less High Elf RBT as you can only take two of any rare choice thus only two HE bolt throwers.

Rare selection enables you to have two RBT's for a single rare choice and they don't have to deploy together in a large, single unit. You can have up to four. Same goes for Dark Elves.

DE's got the better end of the deal in 2250. Two Hydras and Two RBT's...ouch.

i put my empire mortar to very good use today. Ive tried to use it in the past but it was way too random. Today however it was the hero of the day.

BD: HE's have BT's as individual choices. You can only have two in under 3K games.

Until they get the Elite Army rule, that is....

Minsc wrote:BD: HE's have BT's as individual choices. You can only have two in under 3K games.

Heh knew there was something else about the HE's I didn't like.