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I've been chuckling a little about everyone talking about how they're going to roll out with massive infantry units in 8th edition. You guys know that there's no more guessing, and that partial hits are gone, right? Allright, so, since a dear friend of mine is 100% decided on Empire, and I have a soft spot on them myself, I took it on me to build a really crazy army list for us.

Most of the stuff you'll probably understand, but as far as the magic phase goes, the War Altar can cast any spell from the lore of light every turn, meaning the general can use 6 dice on a mega-uber spell if he wants to. The other (potential) 6 dice would go on the Battle Wizard for a 3D6 S6 fireball (signature spell). I got the Sword of Might to have a melee counter against things like Wraiths, and of course the Speculum for annoying characters. Knights, the general, and the tank do the counter charging, the rest just blast away.

Lords
-Arch Lector of Sigmar, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sword of Might, Van Horstmann's Speculum, War Altar: 284p
Heroes
-Battle Wizard, Rod of Power: 95p
Core
-5 Knights, Standard: 131p
-5 Knights, Standard: 131p
-12 Crossbowmen, Standard: 106p
-12 Crossbowmen, Standard: 106p
-10 Handgunners, Standard: 90p
Special
-Great Cannon: 100p
-Great Cannon: 100p
-Great Cannon: 100p
-Mortar: 75p
-Mortar: 75p
-Mortar: 75p
-6 Outriders: 126p
-6 Outriders: 126p
Rare
-Helstorm Rocket Battery: 115p
-Helstorm Rocket Battery: 115p
-Steam Tank: 300p

Total Points: 2250
Total Models: 91

Congrats!
That sounds like soooo much fun to play against.
Sigh...

Your army is a gunline, but it seems much too small for me. Probably something to do with the number of war machines you have: Personally, I'd drop a Cannon or Mortar (or even one of each) and use the extra points to boost up your standard shooting. Seems like a Skaven-like list right now, in which you either win big (Bomb the enemy to hell) or lose big (see: Most of your War Machines miscast).

Beastmen would rock this, hands-down.

Beastmen would rock this, hands-down.

With what exactly? Back up your claims by posting a 2.25K against all comers list and the way you'd play it against this list. Skirmishers move in relatively tight groups now. No partial hits from warmachines.

Anything that survives the shooting and magic and doesn't get charged by a Tank or the War Altar or the Knights, will of course charge a war machine or the small missile units and kill one (anytime the opponent doesn't have an option to re-direct his charge against something else I will flee to play points denial). That's not a problem. This list has 18 targets to destroy and I'm fairly certain that enemies will run out of turns on their surviving units while the rest of their army has already been bombed to bits.

Personally, I'd drop a Cannon or Mortar (or even one of each) and use the extra points to boost up your standard shooting.

War machines are buffed a lot for this edition. A Mortar only buys 9.3 crossbowmen, and those kill about 1.73 T3 targets to long range if they don't move and less if they have to turn at all. A Mortar not only will cause more damage on infantry on average but also has the rock in the middle of the template and because of no guessing will be able to (if desperate need arises) hurt tougher single targets like chariots or wounded single monsters with the S6 D3 wounds hit under the centre of the blast. Besides, the list isn't short on small dakka. The 12 repeating handguns and the core missile chaff units shoot 70 times per turn altogether.

I probably didn't mention true los yet and what role it plays. No more hiding monsters behind pretty much anything (hills, woods, other large targets) anymore from war machines, and war machines don't suffer from any modifiers to hit because of cover.

Therion wrote:

Beastmen would rock this, hands-down.

With what exactly? Back up your claims by posting a 2.25K against all comers list and the way you'd play it against this list. Skirmishers move in relatively tight groups now. No partial hits from warmachines.

Anything that survives the shooting and magic and doesn't get charged by a Tank or the War Altar or the Knights, will of course charge a war machine or the small missile units and kill one (anytime the opponent doesn't have an option to re-direct his charge against something else I will flee to play points denial). That's not a problem. This list has 18 targets to destroy and I'm fairly certain that enemies will run out of turns on their surviving units while the rest of their army has already been bombed to bits.

They could just deploy one unit, and ambush the rest. Enough should come up behind you that you'd have only one turn to deal with it before they're on you. Only a few of your units can really stand up in combat, so as long as a few survive they should do pretty well.

I wouldn't be particularly concerned. The game is about victory points, and there are no easy victory points here since the whole setup is so MSU. I'd spread all over the field to limit the effectiveness of single hammers, and concentrate firepower on their expensive units while running down weak unith with my hitters. There's a bunch of random elements to ambushing as well. Lastly, Beastmen are one of those armies that really don't do well at all against all comers, and because of tournament swiss system match making, shouldn't be a particularly common threat to even metagame against.

The list is solid. I mean...this is essentially the 8th edition version of every competitive Empire list ever, minus the Greatswords/BSB/Griffin Standard.

Your magic overall doesn't look that impressive, but your shooting should make up for it. As long as your shooting works out. There may be no guessing or partials, but that wasn't what really stopped gunlines from rockin' hard before. It was the artillery and scatter die, no?

And sure, you've got multiple small units and that's good, but you're flank can still get rolled up pretty easy. Oh, and don't forget about all those items that negate shooting or what-have-you for a turn or two. There aren't many, but people pretty much take them when they can (Stormbanner, anyone?).

And Minsc, you say this looks...Skaven-y? And that it is...small? I take offense sir. I see no screens to absorb enemy fire. I see no sea of shields, blades, and tails.

Does the hellstorm scatter like a normal stone thrower now, with no guessing, or do you still guess and add an extra artillery dice to it. (ie. do you get 1 less artillery dice to scatter now - down from 2?)

This sounds like a list I was toying with, that had 2 mortars, 2 cannons, 2 hellblasters, 2 hellstorms and a steam tank... and a war altar and a few battle wizards, but mainly CC blocks of troops, inculding a big block of flagellants, and greatswords.

I would always try and put a block of flagellants into a gunline list like this, just to tarpit the most fast and lethal enemy unit so it doesnt decimate you gunline. But even so it looks like a terror to face for most armies.

Spellbound wrote:

Therion wrote:

Beastmen would rock this, hands-down.

With what exactly? Back up your claims by posting a 2.25K against all comers list and the way you'd play it against this list. Skirmishers move in relatively tight groups now. No partial hits from warmachines.

Anything that survives the shooting and magic and doesn't get charged by a Tank or the War Altar or the Knights, will of course charge a war machine or the small missile units and kill one (anytime the opponent doesn't have an option to re-direct his charge against something else I will flee to play points denial). That's not a problem. This list has 18 targets to destroy and I'm fairly certain that enemies will run out of turns on their surviving units while the rest of their army has already been bombed to bits.

They could just deploy one unit, and ambush the rest. Enough should come up behind you that you'd have only one turn to deal with it before they're on you. Only a few of your units can really stand up in combat, so as long as a few survive they should do pretty well.

Incorrect. For a beastman unit to be able to ambush a carbon-copy has to set up normally. So at max half an army could ambush.

Yeah, no more taking One-Eye and ambushing your whole force.

I'd say it's fair, but Beastmen seem so sub-par anyway...but hey, they were built with 8th in mind, right? So...maybe they won't "rock" this army, but I hope they can give it a run for its money.

Better wait for the army spesific erratas before purchasing stuff.
(Mortars for example may/may not get nerfed somehow.)

As silly as it seems, your average hordeish o&g with the customary warmachine support may be an okay foil to this. No bsb also means that your stuff runs away/doesn't shoot more often.

edit: Stormbanner,rainstone *shrug*