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i'm thinking about restarting my star wars campaign with a new group after getting my grubby mitts on the sith edition of force unleashed (tusken skarkiller with unstable yellow crystal lightsaber FTW!!!). i used to run a saga edition group back when d20 radio was a single podcast and on episode 2 but that group has long drifted apart. the new group isn't really keen on learning another variant of the d20 system (most of the current players are already in a 3.5 AND 4e campaign) and they're looking for something different as a change of pace. i've always liked the core mechanics of shadowrun and am strongly leaning towards this system as the basis for the campaign. the other reason is simply $$$; i've already got all the core SR 4e books so there won't be an additional expenditure on my part. so, here's the question... what changes would you make to SR to make it feel more like star wars? here are some of the things i've thought of...

the force/magic: only allow mystic adepts (ie. the magic type in shadowrun that allows people to take physical adept powers and spells but no astral projection). for me, that pretty much solves alot with a simple restriction. force users who want to go the "sorcerer" route can still spent their entire magic point allotment on spells and jedi lightsaber whizzes can use them all on phys ad powers. the only other thing i would add/modify would be be a phys ad power called Lightsaber parry costing .5/level that allows those armed with a lightsaber a chance to deflect ranged shots. the rules for magic not working in space in SR4 would be gone and summoning/conjuring against a spirit's will would be a dark side gaining event.

hackers/droids: i'd dissallow full VR hacking as they don't really fit in with the movie trilogy hacking by R2 we've seen. pretty much any full out of body in game actions (astral projection, full VR hacking, etc) slow down the game immensely (even with the sr4 rules) and the group will be new to SR4 so i'd rather them getting used to the core rules before doing that stuff. maybe at a later date i'd incorporate it but not for the beginning. obviously, any AI or cyberthreats (as well as astral ones) would have to be toned down appropriately as the group can't use the most effective ways of handling them. wifi would be severely curtailled (most connected would require physically jacking in like in previous SR rules) and no RFID.

cybernetics: star wars does allow almost complete cyber replacement (vader, grevious, the force unleashed's starkiller evil ending) but it's extremely uncommon. i'm not sure if it's better to increase the availability threshold on the items or simply make them prohibitively expensive. i'd need to do one and i'm leaning towards upping the availability threshold on cyberware/bioware by 50%. by increasing the difficulty in obtaining even the more mundane cyberware, i curtail the cyberzombie problem (or goal) that some players have.

weapons/tech: not too much to change here. assault rifles become blaster rifles, heavy pistols become heavy blaster pistols, etc. just add "blaster" somewhere in the name of most of the shooty weapons and we're ok. drones = droids. the lightsaber gets the stats of a monofilament whip (as well as the dangers in using) and gets its own exotic weapon skill.

vehicles: here is another problem for me as a GM. i've never done a vehicle heavy SR game and frankly i find the SR4 rules for vehicles clunky. since i'm not too familiar with them, i don't want to go in and start house ruling stuff as my changes may end up being for the worse instead of better. initially, during character generation, i'll explain that we won't be doing much in the way of vehicle combat. if players want to go that route, i'll ask them to tell me ahead of time and i'll allow them to change their skills/purchase retroactively in the future if we become comfortable with the vehicle rules. in the beginning, i feel comfortable using jet packs and speeder bikes and such but there won't be in space dogfighting.

experience/THE DARK SIDE!! mwuuhhaaaaa!!!!: don't know what to do here. do i incorporate a "dark" karma system of some sort? if you accomplish something via an evil route, you get a "dark karma" point. i'd also probably offer each player a "free" dark karma point that they can use each game, probably offered when the critically fail or need just a little bit more effort, which will also add to the "dark karma" total. at what point threshold should the dark karma officially turn the character to the dark side? i'd allow them to spend their normal karma earned throughout the game to remove dark karma (one for one), using the same reasoning as in saga that they're mediating/atoning for their actions. i've played in campaigns where GM's allowed evil characters and the players ALWAYS screwed up the fun for the non-evil players by messing with them. i don't want to deal with that so if someone goes dark side, they become an NPC. the question is how they go dark side mechanically.



soooo.... any other ideas??

If you can track them down, look for the old d6 Star Wars rules from West End. Many, many people consider these to be highly flexible, often superior rules to the d20 incarnation, and not that dissimilar from Shadowrun's mechanic...

I'd be a little hesitant, just because Shadowrun tends to be somewhat 'gritty' inf eel, while Star Wars tends towards 'High Adventure.'

But, hey, it's your game.

syr8766 wrote:If you can track them down, look for the old d6 Star Wars rules from West End. Many, many people consider these to be highly flexible, often superior rules to the d20 incarnation, and not that dissimilar from Shadowrun's mechanic...

yeah, i've gotten that suggestion but, short of digitally pirating them, getting a complete/almost complete collection of d6 star wars is quite difficult. i already have the shadowrun books and the group is marginally familiar with them (they used to pay shadowrun 3E). so zero cash outflow and less time explaining everything = win.

Balance wrote:I'd be a little hesitant, just because Shadowrun tends to be somewhat 'gritty' inf eel, while Star Wars tends towards 'High Adventure.'

But, hey, it's your game.

lol, it's gritty but i'll be setting it either during the kotor sith wars or the clone wars so people are supposed to die if they do stupid things. in my star wars, han shot FIRST!

I've actually been thinking about this for some months now, tinkering with it in my spare time mostly.
Haven't gone to far with it yet, though we had the same idea about handling Force users (Mystic Adept).
Drop me a PM if you want to bounce ideas back and forth.
Till then I will ofer you these words,
Vehicles are easy, don't let the rules intimidate you
The Darkside is only as dangerous as the plot demands.
And finaly this,
Light Saber Reach 1 Damage (STR/2)+5 AP -half Avalibility 20R Cost 3,000

I look forward to following this thread

so i've been giving this a bit more thought and decided to make a post regarding each of the main areas of shadowrun and what i'm changing. since star wars is most memorable for it's jedi more than anything, i'll start with the magic system. as people post in the thread with new ideas or questions, i'll update the appropriate posts accordingly with changes. i'll be discussing the campaign with the interested parties this week during the FLGS 40k night so i'll know by the end of the week if the campaign is actually a go.

Magic

I'll only be allowing magic adepts out of the core magic variants. i'll still allow players to choose whether they want to be part of the shamanic or hermetic traditions with the stipulation that the jedi are ONLY hermetic. non-jedi are free to choose how to spend their available magic points, with all or none going into spellcasting or adept powers. jedi, being "balanced" light side users, must spend at least one point in both adept powers (including taking either magic sense OR astral perception as mandatory adept powers) and spell casting (must take ONE spell and spellcasting skill level 1+) as they share a similar upbringing within the order, learning techniques for both. since full mages are not allowed, i don't have to worry about astral projection and the associated hurdles. the first min/max problem i see is if a player who is not a jedi takes the level 3 combat reflexes power (IIRC the name) that gives him 3 additional passes. since i'm limiting the nonmagic analogs (cyberware, bioware, etc... see first post), this could be overpowering so we'll have to see what the PC's actually end up taking. jedi, while having some options restricted as above, will recieve a free high loyalty contact (their jedi master) as well as the discount on initiation costs due to the order/group. in order to be bestowed with the rank of jedi knight, the player must initiate one level through the jedi order.

As for spells, i don't see too much need for change here. magic tended in my previous short lived sr4 campaign to seem overpowering, especially with direct combat spells. part of this was due to the mage of the party simply never opting to counterspell for some reason and part of it is due to the rules themselves (which are incidentally changed for direct spells with the anniversary edition of sr4). perhaps i'm assuming too much but i see a natural balance in the power of spellcasting by not allowing full mages. while it's still possible to take all 6 magic points in spellcasting and max out the skill, most characters who mix the phys ad and mage powers will be inherently lower in both the force of their spells as well as their spellcasting skill, lowering the average damage output. we'll have to see how this actually goes during character creation. the basic spells/jedi powers i've thought of so far are leviate for move object (luke lifting the xwing), control thoughts for mind trick, and power bolt/ball for light side for push as obvious analogs for their movie counterparts. the biggest quandry i have is with powers that are typically associated with the dark side, like force lightning. if i stay true to the movie roots, i'll have to rule that any spells with elemental effects are automatically dark side powers. that still leaves light side users with a few direct combat spells as well as the mana ones so i don't think they'll be too hard up.

Since space combat/interaction is integral to star wars, the rules for mana voids and magic users going insane in space will be gone. since characters will not have access to astral space, NPCs (outside of the occasional force ghost/shadowrun spirit) will not either. i don't forsee any problems with dual natured creatures so they're staying as is for now. magic items overall will be unchanged with the exception that jedi are not allowed to take spells linked to fetishes or anything that requires a physical object to use a power; those of the non-jedi tradition can take any they choose.

It is not inconceivable that a system in the Star Wars universe may have a more gritty, Shadowrun feel to it. On some systems, people who used the Force were considered witches or wizards, and the Force, per se, was not known. I say go ahead!

And, btw, the old West End Games D6 system is so much cooer than the Wizard$ D20 version. It's a pity I never got more of the books...