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I do this every few months, someone tries to convince me to play 40k, and I start making Marine lists. Invariably I come to the idea that:

1.) I need Troops to Score.
2.) Tac Squads are my troop of choice
3.) What the hell can I do with Tac Squads other than Rhino Up, Double Tap, then hope to live?

Looking at how cheap the Heavy Weapons are, and looking to build versatility into my Mech Marine list I had the following idea:

10 Marines
Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Sarge has Combi-Flamer

Rhino w/ (or w/o) Extra Armor

Idea is to take 3 units, combat squad each. The Missile launcher gives me versatility and troop squads in my Deployment Zone that can sit on or near objectives I can place there - plus they are great at taking out transports or switching to Frags for troops.

The second half rolls up in Rhinos and look to either pop tanks vs. Mech Lists or if I have the need to clear troops, run up with the Combi-Flamer, pop that, shoot pistols, and then charge (or double tap if coming out of the rhino).

I went with the Melta being the actual weapon since I figure being able to fire that multiple times is more useful since Mech is more popular & if I have to pop the flamer to douse a horde of troops, there's likely more around and that squad is going to bite it anyway. If I'm slagging Tanks, then there may not be as much around to counter/kill the small unit.

So that's my idea after being away from the game for ages. Thoughts/comments? I fully expect that this isn't original, but after working out what way to run a Vanilla SM Tac Squad, this seemed to be one of the better options that came to me.

Surprisingly enough in an 1850 list I have had the most success with 2 squads of ten with a lascannon, melta gun, and sergeant with a power fist. For anything but kill points ill leave the lascannons in deployment zones to pick off what ever they can and the fist and melta guns head up the field to help the rest of my army out or just to snag the objectives.

If it’s based on kill points then of course they sit in the rhino and snipe what ever they can.

Now a few things, I don’t play competitively. I just at my local gaming shop so this may fail horribly against a competitive list. Also I don’t depend on the Tacs to do anything at all during the game other than hold an objective or not die. I rely on the rest of the army to carry the weight of the game so if the rest of the army fails the tacticals will fail as well.

I try and Blitz my opponents with drop pod dreads and or sternguard. Followed by hammernators with vulkan. Also I like using attack bikes with multi meltas and predators with AC/LC sponsons for a quick alpha strike.

Again im sure there is plenty of ways to counter my tactics and going first helps but isn’t mandatory. Also as I stated before I have only been able to try this against my local gaming group which does have a variety of players but very few really competitive players.

BTW the article on orks you did was absolutely brilliant.

I often run a squad or two as a 5 man squad, sarge with a combi-plasma, in a razorback. provides cover fire for the rest of my army (normally a mix of terminators, sternguard, 10 man tac squads in rhinos, and dreadnoughts) to do their thing, while still scoring themselves.

personally I think for what you are doing razorbacks are a superior choice to rhinos. Sicne yo aure combat squadding anyways you can place the assault part of the unit in the razorback and have some extra fire coming from it.

How would you kit the Razorback? TL-Lascannons or cheap with just Heavy Bolters?

Also, what're opinions on Extra Armor on Razorbacks? Rhinos?

In 4th, it was mandatory, but it was much cheaper. Since I don't think you want to be playing like SW and sending 10 man squads up in Rhinos, is it worth saving the 15 points?

Also if you used TL Lascannon Razorbacks, is it worth dropping the Melta/Combi-Flamer and going with the Free Flamer to make up the points since you'll have Lascannons for AT?

I usually field just cheap heavy bolters on my squad... cheap as possible, so as to not draw much fire, and survive long enough to hold the objective. a twin linked heavy bolter razorback + 5 space marines with bolters is still a fair force to be reckoned with, against most things that can outflank / get in close to your objectives.

EA is a hard one for me since my primary army is sisters so I get it for 5 points still.
Razors I think any of the mods is good actually. I woudl say use it to fill in a game in your army. You can never go wrong with the HB though since its only 5 points. Since you are going to be movign them forward though I'd say avoid the lasplas turret since you won't be able to ever fire more than 1.

Here is a snippet from my Gunline Marine Tactica Article Focusing on Tactical squad armament. applies to any marine army


Unit Focus: Tactical Squad
The Humble tactical marine. jack of all trades, master of none some have said. this is true most of the time, but it doesn't have to be. while i am focusing on Tac squads as part of a gunline army this can be applied to any marine army.

When forming a gunline army the size of the squad matters. always go for the full ten men. firstly because its the only way to get access to special and heavy weapons and allows for you to combat squad. for 180 points you get 10, BS4, T4 and 3+ save models. rather basic, but it forms the foundation upon which your gunline is formed.


a gunline Tactical squad should be composed of 3 parts. Special weapon squad, heavy weapon squad and transport and each has a different job to do.


Armament choices. you have many choices when it comes to arming your weapons squads and each has its own purpose. each squad has its total cost in pts. simply mix and match heavy weapons squads to get the tac squads full cost.

Special weapons squad: this squad will consist of the Sergeant and 4 marines. your first goal is to decide on which special weapon the squad will be carrying. the 3 choices are Flamer, Melta-gun and plasma gun. their primary purpose is to protect the heavy weapons squad and any other heay support units.

Flamer: the flamer has several virtues. first off its cheap, free in fact. if you give your squad a flamer it will become a fearsome anti-infantry squad. if your squad is given a flamer then your sergeant should take a Combi-flamer to support the squads purpose, frying infantry by the dozen. additionally a power weapon for the sergeant is an excellent choice.

a Flamer squad, 115 pts: Sergeant with Combi-flamer and power weapon, Marine with flamer and 3 basic bolter boys. this squad should be tasked as a horde destroyer/intercept unit, a large unit of ork boyz or gaunts is a perfect target for this unit.

Melta-gun: the melta-gun, despite being short ranged is another effective option. a melta-gun makes the Special weapons squad a Tank intercepter. if you have a Landraider or a dreadnought coming in your direction it is perfect for this squad to intercept. the sergeant should be armed with a Combi-melta, Powerfist, and Melta bombs, again, to support the squad in their appointed purpose, Tank and Monsterous creature hunting.

a Melta squad, 130 pts: Sergeant with Combi-melta, powerfist and melta bombs, Marine with Melta-gun and 3 bolter boys. the power fist makes this squad expensive and as such you need to be careful with the squad. the sergeants melta-bombs are for tanks while the PF is for Monsterous creatures. because the squad is expensive you want to have it protected. Don't expose it to a squad of Orks boyz or howling banshees.

Plasma gun: the most expensive of the options, identical range to a bolter make it good at complimenting the squads bolters. a plasma gun is for MEQ hunting. the sergeant should have a Combi-plasma OR a Stormbolter and a power weapon.

Plasma squad, 135 pts: Sergeant with combi-plasma or stormbolter and power weapon, marine with Plasma gun and 3 bolter boys. plasma squads should not be used to intercept enemy squads like the flamer and melta squads, but should be placed within the gunline as a midranged fire support squad. the sergeant can have either a SB or a Combi-plasma, stormbolter adds considerable to the squads long ranged firepower and is less risky, but 2 rapid firing plasma guns can potentially decimate a incoming MEQ squad or MC. the power weapon is to add to the squads anti-MEQ potential in CC.


Heavy weapon squad: this is what the tac squad adds to the gunline, up to 6 heavy weapons. these anchor the gunline firmly and hold back field objectives. weapon choices are Heavy bolter, Multi-melta, Missile launcher, Plasma cannon, and lascannon.

Heavy bolter: Cheap fire power. 3 Str5 AP4 shots up to 36". a heavy bolter gives you anti-horde at range and the potential to pop some transports if better targets don't present themselves.

heavy Bolter squad, 80 pts: Marine with Heavy bolter and 4 bolter boys. these guys can lay down a good quantity of fire for pretty cheap, once the enemy is in bolter range the firepower jumps exponentially. put them where they can dominate fire lanes between terrain features that act as natural funnels. excellent against hordes and MEQs due to volume of fire.

Multi-melta cheap anti-tank, but short range makes it a poor choice. this is the one heavy weapon with little use. use its dangerous against tanks, but no enemy in his right mind is going to move his tank within 12" of this weapon, and if you go to him you can be he won't waste any time getting away before you have time to set up. the one use i do see in a MM squad is a form of area denial, a no go zone for tanks and walkers. if your opponent uses Landraider or dreadnought spam i can see it being effective, but it is limited to that use.

MM squad, 80 pts: marine with MM and 4 bolter boys. as an area denial for tanks it works well enough, but special weapon squads with Melta-guns work just as well and there are more effective choices for heavy weapons.

Missile launcher Cheap, versitile, and long ranged. this is the most effective and points efficient heavy weapon in the space marine arsenal. the ability to lay down a Str4 AP5 blast template or a single Str8 AP3 shot is fantastic. you pop a transport and then blast the occupants the next turn.

Missile squad, 80 pts: Missile marine and 4 bolter boys. reach out and touch the enemy on the first turn, pop his transports and move on to his medium tanks or infantry.

Plasma Cannon while it is more expensive then the previous options it still is relatively cheap, especially when compared with Devestator marines. a Str7 AP2 blast template makes this a MEQ or a MCs worst nightmare. wounding on a 2+ most of the time and no armour saves means what you hit you will most likely kill or wound. because its a blast weapon it can scatter, but the marines BS of 4 can make up for that giving you a 1/3 chance of a direct hit and a 2/3 chance for an average deviation of 3 inches.
it has the same range as a heavy bolter and can be put to a similer purpose.

plasma cannon squad, 85 pts: Plasma cannon and 4 bolter boys. shoot at squads of MEQs or at MCs and keep them in the gunline.'

Lascannon: the ultimate space marine anti-tank weapon, the most expensive option for a Tac heavy weapon, but still dirt cheap. the lascannon is good for popping transports and any heavy and medium tank your opponent has. Long range means it will be shooting from turn 1.

lascannon squad, 90 pts: lascannon marine and 4 bolter boys. the bolters and the lascannon are completely at odds with each other as opposed to the other heavy and special weapon squads where they could at least help with the weapons purpose. Here the bolter boys are simply ablative wounds to allow the lascannon to remain in the fight. this squad should be placed in cover as it will be a priority target. while it is supposed to go tank hunting the lascannon can also be used against MCs for moderate effectvness.




Transport there are 3 options for a Tacsquad and each has its use.

Rhino: a cheap ride for the special weapon squad or a bit of protection for the Heavy weapon squad. there are 2 ways to out fit a rhino for a gunline.

Dakka rhino, 45 pts: this rhino has purchased an extra Stormbolter. 2 storm bolters add considerable anti-infantry firepower to the tank, works best with Flamer or melta-gun special weapons squads for drive by shootings and quick objective contesting or snatching late game.

Bunker rhino, 45 pts: the bunker rhino has a hunter killer missile. a single shot krak missile adds to the fire power of the heavy weapons squad inside. this rhino doesn't move much, its purpose is for a heavy weapons squad to shoot out of its top hatch protected from enemy fire. because it isn't meant to move much a immobilized result isn't a huge loss, but it can also relocate the squad to a safer location if needed.


Razorbacks: the best choice for a gunline Tac squad IMO. they add cheap, mobile heavy weapons to the gunline and can transport a squad in a pinch.

Bolterback, 50 pts: a stock Tl-heavy bolter and a purchased Stormbolter. this tank can add anti-infantry firepower where its lacking or simply add to what exists. pairs well with a heavy weapon squad with a Missile launcher or heavy bolter. 1/2 the squad should hide behind the tank for cover.

Flameback, 65 pts: a TL-heavy flamer. because of being a template weapon and that, at least firing forward, much of the flamer template will be unable to reach enemy models. if you take this option it will work well with a Flamer special weapon squad.

Dakkaback, 85 pts: TL-assault cannon and a Stormbolter. this tank can put out some serious anti-infantry and, thanks to rending, it is moderatively effective against enemy tanks. 4 Str6 AP4 rending shots will rip apart any infantry, wounding most on a 2+. works well with a Flamer or a Melta Special weapon squad.

Lazorback, 75 pts: TL-lascannon. a mobile anti-tank platform. works best with a lascannon or a missile launcher Heavy weapon squad. 1/2 the squad should hide behind the tank for cover.

Stronos Razorback, 85 pts: Lascannon, TL plasma gun and a Stormbolter. an anti-MEQ Razorback with some Anti-tank in a pinch. pairs well with any of the heavy weapon squads, but the Plasma cannon and Lascannon ones in particular. again 1/2 the squad should hide behind the tank for cover.


Drop Pod :not the best choice as far as transports in gunlines go, but there is 1 useful build.

Drop pod with Deathwind missile launcher, 55 pts: the pod should come down seperate from the squad. once landed the enemy will havem to walk through a field of drop pods, each with a Str5 large blast template coming out each turn. annoying and not the most effective choice, but it can be useful against hordes.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:What the hell can I do with Tac Squads other than Rhino Up, Double Tap, then hope to live?

Do what I do, take a captain on a bike an run bikes as your troops.
10 tac marines cost 180 + transport cost. That averages 18 points a model, with a free ML added in.
Bikes cost 25 points a model, but do not need a transport. For those extra 7 points, this is what you get.

* The ability to bring 2 special weapons
* Toughness 4(5)
* Twin Linked Bolters
* Move 12"
* Turbo-Boost for move 24"
* Attack bikes for heavy weapon.

I have found that this is the best configuration for my troops choices, and run me at 235 points a squad.
* Sergeant with PF
* 2 Bikes with Melta/Plasma
* 2 Bikes
* 1 Attack Bike with MM/HB
If I take melta, I bring a MM bike. If I take plasma, I bring a HB.
This allows for me to do some would allocation magic when shot at. While its not ideal, its a lot better than a normal 10 man tac squad. There are a total of 7 wounds on the squad as the attack bike has 2. Always take your first wound of STR 7 or less on that bike.

In my 1500 list I run 4 squads, with 2 typhoons, a Predator w/AC + 2 LC, and a Dread with 2 TL AC. That long range support in addition to the hard hitting bikes has proven very worthwhile.

I thought the norm was to max out a weapon in a tac squad. Like melta gun, combi melta on sarge, and a powerfist. Or just replace melta with plasma, or whatever. I am not a tourney player, yet, but I have been reading a lot of tactics and things like that. seems to be the common doctrine.

I have tried many different configuration of Tacticals. Using power weapons, combi weapons, power fists, and all manner of special and heavy weapons.

I have settled on 2 favorite builds.

-Backfield objective holders: Simply outfitted with lascannon, plasmagun and rhino. I don't want these guys to get into melee, so any PF that I have tried on them in the past ends up being wasted 90% of the time. They take shots at heavy infantry/light vehicles/MCs once they get in close range, or take pot-shots with lascannon at any vehicles/MCs when there are no close range targets.

-Forward objective holders: 5 man squad mounted in an assault cannon razorback. Cheap squad @ 165 points that can advance while shooting its weapon. Quite versatile squad. They are a support unit that dismounts to double tap squads that need to be weakened for the assault terminators to assault or finish off weakened squads.

VB, welcome back.

Some answers to specific questions:

What the hell can I do with Tac Squads other than Rhino Up, Double Tap, then hope to live?

Generally speaking what you do with tac squads:
2/3 of missions -- hope they live long enough to score
1/3 of missions -- hope they don't give up too many KPs

To that end, jumping them out of the safety of their rhino/razor is usually not wise, unless its end game, do or die kinda stuff. It just isn't worth it. Rest of the army does the heavy lifting nowadays, the tacs just support the best they can from the comfort of their ride (and for some a nice, elevated position in a ruin).

How you equip them is not as cut and dry as it was in 4ed. There's much to be said about all the options presented above, whether its plain 5 man in a razorback to 10 men fully kited in a rhino.

I think there's 3 typical archetypes (and a 4th if you are using 2 drop podding dreads). Specific gear and loadouts depend on your other choices and personal preference.

A -- 5 man tactical in a non-HB razorback.
B -- 10 man tactical in a rhino
C -- 10 man tactical with a razorback

A is the new las/plas in my opinion. This is the basic scorer in an MSU style shooty army. Kinda boring, might seem strange to not make use of the free weapon but your are giving that up to leave more points for more razorbacks (or other choices). Levrages 5eds much more forgiving vehicle damage chart and cover save rules. Does mean you have to be extra careful with the few units you have

B is flexible while still being efficient. You can do just as you say, put one guy on an objective and send the others off in the rhino to harras and do their thing. However you don't haev to and can still keep all 10 safe(er) inside the rhino in a KP mission

C is favored by those trying to maximise the slot. Problem here is you lose flexibility as you can't transport the whole unit and you will be in a conundrum in KP missions. Still viable though.

There a 4th option but only useful should you be running 2 drop pod units (usually dreads). I mention this only because no one else has.

D -- 5 or 10 man tactical in a pod (such that your two dreads arrive first turn and your tac can arrive later and secure an objective or trouble shoot).

How would you kit the Razorback? TL-Lascannons or cheap with just Heavy Bolters?

Usually tl-las or las/plas is preferred. The AC aint a bad all rounder but the range makes it a different beast -- most folks go for the longer range.

HB razor is just not worth it. Its not really bringing anything major to the table when you can get 2 tl-autocannons on dreads or ac/hb preds for 85 points.

Also if you used TL Lascannon Razorbacks, is it worth dropping the Melta/Combi-Flamer and going with the Free Flamer to make up the points since you'll have Lascannons for AT?

I am more of a dedicated combi with special instead of mix myself, regardless. But i think this question is more list dependent. Points for combis add up so it depends on whether you can afford it. Personally like the added shots and prefer flamers for denying cover and anti-troop

Also, what're opinions on Extra Armor on Razorbacks? Rhinos?

Couple reasons why EA is not worth it on rhinos/razors
--5ed damage chart makes stuns much more rare compared to 4ed.
--Not only did the cost go up, but the cost of the rhino went down. So paying more to help save less.
--Guys inside can get out and run if its absolutely neccessary to get somewhere (like say for an objective grab).

General consensus is EA is only worth looking at on a landraider or short range orieted dread.

or you can run Dark Angels and have Terminators and/or bikes and Land Speeders count as troops...