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I know this question crops up now and then. Hell, I think I asked this myself once. For characters with multiple wargear options what explicitly limits how much they can carry? Especially regarding 2 handed weapons like a boltgun and a relic place.

1.) Boltpistol and Power Fist - OK
2.) Boltgun and Power Fist - OK
3.) Boltgun, Power Fist & Signum - OK
4.) Boltgun & Relic Sword - OK?
4.) Power Fist & Power Sword - ?
4.) Boltgun, Power Fist, Signum & Plasma Pistol - Not OK


What dictates this? Page 42 of the main rulebook touches on this for assault, but that's the best I can find.

wrong section maybe?
as for the answer, look in your space marine codex, it blantantly states what can be exchanged for what.

lets say you have a SM Chapter Master
in the book he comes with a Boltgun or Bolt Pistol, and a Close Combat Weapon, later on it states you may exchange boltgun/boltpistol and, or CCW for the following.

so you exchange the boltgun/pistol for a Plasma pistol, this only leaves you with the CCW to change out for what ever else is on the list. though perosnally for SM characters, I would be giving them a Relic blade and Storm Shield.

hoping this helps a lil bit.

See, that's the problem. I don't find it blatant at all. For Devastator Sergeants, for example, you can replace your Boltgun and/or bolt pistol with (and weapon options). Now, if the argument is that you can only select one item off the list, that would make total sense. The problem is, I'm fairly confident that's not true. If it were, then you would only be able to swap a Bolt Pistol for a Chainsword, and be one handed. Same goes for the powerfist - is it a storm bolter OR power fist? A lot of those items are clearly single handed weapons, meant to be paired with other single handed weapons. In some cases, though, you have a character who would need 3 or 4 hands to equip legal weapon loadouts.

Ouze wrote:See, that's the problem. I don't find it blatant at all. For Devastator Sergeants, for example, you can replace your Boltgun and/or bolt pistol with (and weapon options). Now, if the argument is that you can only select one item off the list, that would make total sense. The problem is, I'm fairly confident that's not true. If it were, then you would only be able to swap a Bolt Pistol for a Chainsword, and be one handed. Same goes for the powerfist - is it a storm bolter OR power fist? A lot of those items are clearly single handed weapons, meant to be paired with other single handed weapons. In some cases, though, you have a character who would need 3 or 4 hands to equip legal weapon loadouts.

A Devastator Sgt can have both a Power Fist and Stormbolter, or any combo of two weapons listed as options. and I fail to see how a marine could ever be without one weapon, seeing as the Sgt starts off with a Boltpistol and Boltgun. you then are able to exchange them both for new wargear, or just exchange one, or not at all.

though that does raise the interesting question of, can a Sgt exchange his Bolt Pistol for a Power Fist, and then his Boltgun for another Power Fist? I haven't seen it done, notely because it would cost 50pts to do such a thing, but I think it is still legal as is.

you are letting the two hands weapon rule really get to you, GW isn't very truthful to its meanings, basically all a handed weapon does by the rules is prevent you from getting an attack bonus for having two weapons. though to use it you do not lose the spiecal ability of your other war gear items, even if they need one of those "hands" to be used. in all honesty you need to use your imagination just a tad, the Sgt rests his storm bolter against the back of his power fist as he fires, and then when he rushes in he lets the storm bolter hang at his side as he swings the fist.

in the simple terms look at it this way, you start off with two weapons: Boltgun/Bolt Pistol, now you are able to exchange either as you see fit, so by the end of the day you only have two weapons, though some units give loop holes. like the Villa Assault Sgt, you can give him both twin lighting claws and a powerfist, or keep one of your orignal weapons.

Ignore the two handed and 1 handed thing - that is a relic from 3rd ed.

You can exchange up to 2 weapons for up to 2 other weapons. For example you can keep the pistol and equip a power sword. or change the pistol for a S Bolter.

Whatever you like, basically, as long as you ONLY swap each weapon you start with a maximum of once.

OK, "up to two weapons for up to two weapons, regardless of how many hands" is a pretty easy way to remember it. Thanks.

The answer is simple in the older codices you may have 2 weapons (I think Black Templar's are the last) ... in all the newer codices you may have as many weapon as you like on a model... I think in the SM codex you can take two pairs of lightning claws (though you can only use one pair) on the jump infantry sergeant. If you have the options you could take two power-fists, a bolt pistol, power weapon and combi-weapon. If you have the option you can take it.

Now we just need to derail this thread with can you get an extra attack if you have 3 weapons ... (edit nvm)

Ouze wrote:See, that's the problem. I don't find it blatant at all. For Devastator Sergeants, for example, you can replace your Boltgun and/or bolt pistol with (and weapon options). Now, if the argument is that you can only select one item off the list, that would make total sense. The problem is, I'm fairly confident that's not true. If it were, then you would only be able to swap a Bolt Pistol for a Chainsword, and be one handed. Same goes for the powerfist - is it a storm bolter OR power fist? A lot of those items are clearly single handed weapons, meant to be paired with other single handed weapons. In some cases, though, you have a character who would need 3 or 4 hands to equip legal weapon loadouts.

The rulebook has nothing to say on this - you need to go to your specific codex. If we look at chapter master's, for example:

He has a bolt pistol and chainsword. Each can be exchanged for one of the weapons on the list. There is then a list of additional equipment he can purchase which does not require replacing. So, the following is completely legal:

Relic blade + stormbolter with hellfire rounds & auxiliary grenade launcher + digital weapons + meltabombs.

BTW, the storm bolter is not a single handed weapon. Only old codexes use handed-ness for their weapons. All the new codexes tell you that it's a pistol or CCW if you're allowed to use it in CC.

ETA, I see the problem you're having. It's not that he can swap bolt pistol and chainsword for an upgrade weapon, he can swap bolt pistol for an upgrade and swap chainsword for an upgrade.

1.) Boltpistol and Power Fist - OK
2.) Boltgun and Power Fist - OK
3.) Boltgun, Power Fist & Signum - OK for dev sarg, not for anything else
4.) Boltgun & Relic Sword - OK? relic swords dont exist
4.) Power Fist & Power Sword - ? c
4.) Boltgun, Power Fist, Signum & Plasma Pistol - Not OK? yes it is! The space marine codex says Replace Ccw and/or bolt pistol, so you can exchange either / both with the indicated weapon.

This is my opinion anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
May i state 2 things: It is blatantly legal to equip 2 PF's it has an example in the 40k rulebook of what would happen if you did.

2nd: 2 handed is a relic rule yes, but it still applies, but not in any sane context.
example:
Ok heres our perdie relic blade right? Vanguard Veteran Sergeant is the only one to actually have a relic blade, and hes holding it in both hands. why?! NO REASON!

2 handed means you can never gain an extra attack by having a pistol, or another of that wep type, or any other close combat weapon.

To the OP: it is pefectly legal to have a plasma pistol AND a boltgun, as long as one is on your hip or something. A good example is Colonel Iron Hand Stracken. You can choose to fire the shotgun then assault and gain an extra attack from having the pistol, or fire the pistol and still gain an extra attack (srsly who's gunna use the shotgun)

Much alike, the space marine captain might be out of assault range and out of 12', so you fire your boltgun instead.

Jaon: #4 is still not OK because you do not have any items to exchange for the Plasma Pistol if you are keeping the Bolter and exchanging the Bolt Pistol for a Power fist.

There are several Characters and Units out there that have 3 or more weapons available to them.

Jaon wrote:4.) Boltgun, Power Fist, Signum & Plasma Pistol - Not OK? yes it is! The space marine codex says Replace Ccw and/or bolt pistol, so you can exchange either / both with the indicated weapon.

Not okay. You swap the bolt pistol for a plasma pistol. You now have boltgun, plasma pistol, signum. The only way to get the fist is to lose the boltgun.

Don't think of the Signum as taking a hand. I'm sure in the 43rd Millennium they thought of a heads up display! Either that or a chain on the thing so you can drop it and steady your main weapon. (Sgt? They 'Nids are right there, quit playing with that thing and shoot!)

Also, I think other than the limits specified here: swapping each Wargear weapon for one Option weapon and/or taking May Take weapon, the BRB states if a CCW is 2-handed you may not gain a bonus for a 2nd CCW. Not many are still listed that way.

Homer

if a codex ever says "the charector may exchange his____AND/OR his____for the following" it means he may have up to 2 of the following(trading one of his previous items in for each new item)

When the codex says "He may have any of the following" it means he may get any/all of the following in addition to what he already has.

5th edition, you can have as many as your codex lets you have.

you can only use 2 "hands" worth in close combat though at the same time.

Homer S wrote:Don't think of the Signum as taking a hand.

Pretty sure nobody does anymore. That's why it sticks up out of his backpack.

I've been thinking about it like this: in the current edition "two-handed" just means "no extra swings for having another ccw."

As for wargear swaps, you can't trade nothing for something, one option for two options, etc.

I would just stick to the two hand two weapons idea

Though there are exceptions to this i have found in the imperial guard codex.
Priests can be given two two-handed weapons (shotgun and evisorator)
Yarrick has 1 two-handed weapon (stormbolter) and no less than three one-handed weapons (battle klaw, ccw, bolt pistol)

Am not sure if this occurs in the other codices

Way Master Walt wrote:I would just stick to the two hand two weapons idea

Though there are exceptions to this i have found in the imperial guard codex.
Priests can be given two two-handed weapons (shotgun and evisorator)
Yarrick has 1 two-handed weapon (stormbolter) and no less than three one-handed weapons (battle klaw, ccw, bolt pistol)

Am not sure if this occurs in the other codices

currently, unless you have a really old codex, you may take as many weapons as you are given the option to take. For example ...

Big Mek may have the following combination, Mega armour with a built in power claw and TL-shoota, and replace his chopper with a power klaw; he could also take a attack squig giving him 5 p.Klaw attacks: 6 on the charge.

Tech-marine can have a full servo-harness which give 2 strength 8 attacks, a flamer and a TLplasma pistol: then he may have a Power weapon and bolter. Oh and he can sit on a bike for TL-Bolters

Assault marine may replace his bolt pistol and/or chain sword with a pair of lightning claws. Yes he can have four lightning claws.

End of the day if it say you may take X, Y and Z then you may: it just might not be a good idea to take more then one ranged weapon.

Depends on the codex.

Eldar Autarchs start with a shuriken pistol.
They may ADD a ccw (Scorpion chainsword, power weapon OR if on a bike, lance).
In addition, they may have a 2 handed weapon (fusion gun, Avenger shuriken catapult or Reaper missile launcher.).

4 'hands' worth of weapons. This is all legal. None of the upgrades are 'replace' upgrades.

Homer S wrote:Don't think of the Signum as taking a hand. I'm sure in the 43rd Millennium they thought of a heads up display! Homer

Don't think of any weapon as taking a hand. Bolt gun, Bolt pistol and Chainsword is default for spikymarines. You can carry as many weapons as your army list lets you take now.

And the signum in the current dev box set is mounted on the sarge's backback.

I literally have nothing to contribute to this post, I just like the A10 in your avatar pic

Dessloch wrote:I literally have nothing to contribute to this post, I just like the A10 in your avatar pic

Thanks - I have a bigger version I use as wallpaper at work.