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Rygar91 wrote: Sorry if this isnt a good place to put this but I figured it would be better than making a new thread. So ive decided on making a second army, which of course is Necrons. Ive been trying to create a 1500 list and ive gotten stuck at 1100 points. Im really having trouble deciding what to do with the remaining 400. Heres the list so far:
I hope those points are allocated correctly, someone correct me if you notice anything.
Any help would be great, just looking for something that would really compliment what I have so far and also any changes recommended for what I already have listed. Thanks!
You're new here, so you don't know, but you should really post army lists in the Army List section.
Tactics threads should be reserved for tactics discussion.
skoffs wrote: Which is why we need reliable methods of dealing with them.
Oh, Storm-teks, how I miss thee...
Or, Haywire in general. You'd think as Necrons, we'd have some...
We do as part of a Warlord trait in the "supplement"
Heavy Destroyers, and Destroyers in the Cult, are perfectly acceptable as AT. Hell, Praetorians with Voidblades (especially in the formation) are pretty killer too. I don't think we're lacking at all to be hoenst in that department. We just don't have suicide squads, in a sense.
Formation doesn't make Praetorians any better at killing tanks, as it only effects shooting.
Regular Destroyers are ok at being anti tank, but only because of the rerolls. They're still only glancing on 6s like the rest of the army, and don't have AP2 or AP1 to explode. For the price of one, you could get 3 Warriors, who have a better chance of doing a hull point if in Rapid Fire range. Which doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're nothing particularly "special" when it comes to anti-tank, especially when you talk things with invuln saves like Imp Knights or other Superheavies (Titans, Greater Brass Scorpions, etc).
As far as anti-tank goes, people love to point out "Gauss glances everything!", but numerically it's not that great compared to armies with actual dedicated anti-tank weaponry or just plain D-guns.
As far as anti-tank goes, people love to point out "Gauss glances everything!", but numerically it's not that great compared to armies with actual dedicated anti-tank weaponry or just plain D-guns.
Big question here:
what is the maximum amount of obelisks/monoliths one could bring at 2000 points, using decurion detachment. And how would it fare against tau/eldar (my meta)
Fear is the mind-killer. The little death that leads to total obliteration.
Xafilah wrote: Big question here:
what is the maximum amount of obelisks/monoliths one could bring at 2000 points, using decurion detachment. And how would it fare against tau/eldar (my meta)
As much as you can fit.
It should do okay vs the Tau, but it will do poorly vs the massed strength D that Eldar can field.
Xafilah wrote: Big question here:
what is the maximum amount of obelisks/monoliths one could bring at 2000 points, using decurion detachment. And how would it fare against tau/eldar (my meta)
As much as you can fit. It should do okay vs the Tau, but it will do poorly vs the massed strength D that Eldar can field.
okay, thanks. I don't have to worry about massed D(ickery) from the eldar, so this might be the troll build that could. Multiple av 14 bricks spewing gauss and tesla, whilst killing flyers sounds delicious.
Fear is the mind-killer. The little death that leads to total obliteration.
skoffs wrote: I don't know if I'd rate Orikan-star as "competitive".
Fun, definitely, but far too slow to give anything truly competitive a run for its money.
I personally can't wait to play Orikanstar. I've specifically stayed away from it because I don't have Orikan yet, so once GW has him in stock again, imma try it out.
skoffs wrote: I don't know if I'd rate Orikan-star as "competitive".
Fun, definitely, but far too slow to give anything truly competitive a run for its money.
I personally can't wait to play Orikanstar. I've specifically stayed away from it because I don't have Orikan yet, so once GW has him in stock again, imma try it out.
I found the best is Orikan, tooled up Overlord, Lord, Cryptek (for solar staff) and 10 Lychguard with shields. Through the shroud onto the overlord for a 2+ save. Magnificent!
skoffs wrote: I don't know if I'd rate Orikan-star as "competitive".
Fun, definitely, but far too slow to give anything truly competitive a run for its money.
I personally can't wait to play Orikanstar. I've specifically stayed away from it because I don't have Orikan yet, so once GW has him in stock again, imma try it out.
I found the best is Orikan, tooled up Overlord, Lord, Cryptek (for solar staff) and 10 Lychguard with shields. Through the shroud onto the overlord for a 2+ save. Magnificent!
Well, if I personally do it, Imma run Zandrakh, Obyron, Orikan, Cryptek, tooled Overlord, and about 7-8 Lychguard.
To chime in on the discussion about Knights, and agree with what was said, D-cult is the way to go.
I've finally got my cult to its full strength (3+1 x3 and 3 heavies) I've used it with a bit less in decurion against knights and I had little trouble. The knight player was unsure of how to approach and where to put the shields. While there was no instance of outright slaying a knight in one turn, I was able to reliable take 3 HP off of 2 knights each turn.
Last week I had a game against a competitive daemon player. I had my D-Cult, but the rest of the list was purposely non optimized. It was 20 warriors, 5 immortals, 2x3 small blast tomb blades, T-c'tan and doomsday cannon.
He was running Be'Lakor, LoC, bundle of screamers, bundle of flesh hounds, 2 grinders and more than enough pinkies to summon and be batteries.
Game was flip flop, but the destroyers really are amazing. As soon as a soul grinders were in range, they were dead. The durability of the destroyers, even in non decurion was awesome.
I plan on facing a double knights ad mech army asap with an 1850 decurion using D-cult, just to see how they hold up.
I went from 100% vehicle lists, to 100% infantry lists with the new codex.
I've run the Orikanstar in 2 events, the most recent being yesterday. Every time they made it into Assault or successfully held an objective because no one wanted to come near it.
Unfortunately, Stomp exists. My last game yesterday, first round of combat, 2 Stomps of 6s, entire Orikanstar gone: DLord, Orikan, Zahndrekh (Warlord), all the Lychguard. As long as Stomps exist - specifically on GCs that we can't particularly deal with from a range - I will be avoiding Deathstars like the plague. I'd rather just bring multiple units of Wraiths that can tie up and strip a wound or two with luck. It's less expensive overall, and it doesn't feel as game ending when one gets wiped.
The other possibly competitive option I'm considering is going back to Flyers. Even with the increase in price to NScythes, no one can quite spam Flyers like Necrons can. DScythes are pretty decent with the new price, though the new Death Ray is slightly worse than the old one - and the Formation is quite good. Would need some presence on the ground to survive until they come on, and I'm thinking twin Doomsday Arks on a Skyshield in the Corner is a decent idea. Bubble wrap with Warriors to defend against Drop Pods, maybe we can play the castling game as well as other armies.
...until someone has Ranged D on a Lynx, Wraithknight, or Titan and then you just cry anyway. Experimentation continues.
Personally, I'm glad we don't have a beat-everything-it-comes-up-against deathstar. People complain enough about Necrons being oh so impossible to kill, if we had something that could steamroller their entire army (like the Royal Court Disco Inferno of old) we'd never hear the end of it.
As it is, solid infantry seems to be our thing, now. No need for shenanigans, no tricky combos, just straight up tough guys who don't completely suck at any one thing.
skoffs wrote: Personally, I'm glad we don't have a beat-everything-it-comes-up-against deathstar. People complain enough about Necrons being oh so impossible to kill, if we had something that could steamroller their entire army (like the Royal Court Disco Inferno of old) we'd never hear the end of it.
As it is, solid infantry seems to be our thing, now. No need for shenanigans, no tricky combos, just straight up tough guys who don't completely suck at any one thing.
This.^
I've started using vehicles a lot more simply because straight infantry is too much for my opponents to handle on a daily basis.
Tyran wrote: Everyone except the Eldar is already on a sticky situation.
Chaos if fine. Summoning en mass is still broken as ever. The Wargames Con winner featured an Invisible, Grimoired D-Bloodthirster alongside Summoning, which can and will run roughshod through anything in the game.
That's because they nerfed the 6 on D to remove models. That same Thirster run by the same guy, Alan, died in the tourney this weekend to a str D 6 while grimoired and invisible and re rolling his invulnerable saves. Meanwhile stuff like the Revenant Titan (played in the same tourney) died all 3 games. I think that if Reece would let the power of D shine through, you would find these unkillable death stars and terrifying LOW fewer and farther between. Then Necrons wouldn't have to worry about how they deal with X and Y because the meta will sort it out. Right now with the rules of the West Coast and the South, you end up having the same unkillable Bloodthirstier win the last two major tourneys in those communities.
Tyran wrote: Everyone except the Eldar is already on a sticky situation.
Chaos if fine. Summoning en mass is still broken as ever. The Wargames Con winner featured an Invisible, Grimoired D-Bloodthirster alongside Summoning, which can and will run roughshod through anything in the game.
That's because they nerfed the 6 on D to remove models. That same Thirster run by the same guy, Alan, died in the tourney this weekend to a str D 6 while grimoired and invisible and re rolling his invulnerable saves. Meanwhile stuff like the Revenant Titan (played in the same tourney) died all 3 games. I think that if Reece would let the power of D shine through, you would find these unkillable death stars and terrifying LOW fewer and farther between. Then Necrons wouldn't have to worry about how they deal with X and Y because the meta will sort it out. Right now with the rules of the West Coast and the South, you end up having the same unkillable Bloodthirstier win the last two major tourneys in those communities.
Tyran wrote: Everyone except the Eldar is already on a sticky situation.
Chaos if fine. Summoning en mass is still broken as ever. The Wargames Con winner featured an Invisible, Grimoired D-Bloodthirster alongside Summoning, which can and will run roughshod through anything in the game.
That's because they nerfed the 6 on D to remove models. That same Thirster run by the same guy, Alan, died in the tourney this weekend to a str D 6 while grimoired and invisible and re rolling his invulnerable saves. Meanwhile stuff like the Revenant Titan (played in the same tourney) died all 3 games. I think that if Reece would let the power of D shine through, you would find these unkillable death stars and terrifying LOW fewer and farther between. Then Necrons wouldn't have to worry about how they deal with X and Y because the meta will sort it out. Right now with the rules of the West Coast and the South, you end up having the same unkillable Bloodthirstier win the last two major tourneys in those communities.
I was at that tourney, I pulled Alan round 1. I tied up the D-Thirster with with Wraiths and Lychguard from turn 1, even with full power D. The top tables still featured D weapons and superheavies. The tourney winner was using an (possibly illegal) Daemon Lord and was crushing everything out of existence. The D-thirster that he runs is still an aboslutely disgusting thing, really only suffers against things that are also Invisible (like the Knight that Stomped it out of existence round 2).
Invisibility, Stomp, and D are the strongest things in the game. One makes you damn near impossible to kill, the others let you remove things with no way to counter (except in the ITC FAQ). We have a toned down version of Invis (better because it's guaranteed to go off, worse because it's one turn only and doesn't work in combat), and no weaponry that can even pretend to be at the same level of removal as D or Stomp, save maybe the Doom Scythe or Doomsday Ark, and even those aren't as good. Maybe you could say the relic Warscythe since it's Fleshbane/Armorbane/AP2, but that's still not D, and allows FNP/RP/Invulns and isn't ID.
Not having access to them wouldn't be an issue if we had a hard counter to them. Look at SM (+ allies). They have massed mobility and ObSec to go MSU and make big scary things a bit worse. They have Grav to deal with GCs and Meltapods to deal with Superheavies. They have the Librarian Conclave, one of the best formations in the game. They're doing just fine even if they don't ally in Knights (though it's probably mostly in thanks to the free vehicles).
What do we have to deal with Superheavies and GCs that can Stomp us out of existence? What do we have that can help us deny Invis (or heck, anything like Prescience, Endurance, or Iron Arm) on things that we need to focus fire? Wraiths are our power unit (durable enough to survive fighting many things, fast enough to be where they need to be, and large enough that Stomps don't get more than 2 or 3 at a time), and even then I only consider them a soft counter at best.
I'm not trying to be a downer. If someone comes up with a solid counter or build that works, I'll be all happy ears and the first person out there to buy and build said counter. I just don't think we have it at this point in time. Here's the things I think may (may, mind you) work:
1) Allying in Tau Fire Support Cadre. Pretty obvious, if we don't have the massed big guns to drop a SHV or GC before they hit us, we should get it from someone else.
2) CAD Scythe Spam (for dropping ObSec everywhere) with max Wraiths on the ground. Sadly lacks any heavy firepower to kill anything substantially from a range, though we'd have to see how points come out.
3) Mass Footcron, hoping to just drown in bodies. Depending on how you build it, possibly very effective. Although, again, no real counter to WKs other than target overload. A 20 man blob can try to tarpit, but between Stomp and no Fearless, that's not that likely.
I'm open to other suggestions. As I said, if someone finds a reliable way to deal with a double WK list, I'll be a happy little robot.
I'm not trying to be a downer. If someone comes up with a solid counter or build that works, I'll be all happy ears and the first person out there to buy and build said counter. I just don't think we have it at this point in time. Here's the things I think may (may, mind you) work:
1) Allying in Tau Fire Support Cadre. Pretty obvious, if we don't have the massed big guns to drop a SHV or GC before they hit us, we should get it from someone else.
2) CAD Scythe Spam (for dropping ObSec everywhere) with max Wraiths on the ground. Sadly lacks any heavy firepower to kill anything substantially from a range, though we'd have to see how points come out.
3) Mass Footcron, hoping to just drown in bodies. Depending on how you build it, possibly very effective. Although, again, no real counter to WKs other than target overload. A 20 man blob can try to tarpit, but between Stomp and no Fearless, that's not that likely.
I'm open to other suggestions. As I said, if someone finds a reliable way to deal with a double WK list, I'll be a happy little robot.
Not sure if scarab farm is the solution, but it's definitely something to consider. Throw enough scarab bases at something and it will go down. It's also a decent TAC tactic.
For example . . .
Scarab Farm (1850pts)
Necrons: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ Cryptek (Chronometron, The Solar Staff)
Cryptek (Chronometron, Staff of Light)
Troops
5x Immortals in Night Scythe
5x Immortals in Night Scythe
Fast Attack
Canoptek Scarabs
3x Canoptek Scarab
Heavy Support
3 x Canoptek Spyders
3 x Canoptek Spyders
3 x Canoptek Spyders
Canoptek Harvest # 2
9x Canoptek Scarab
1 x Canoptek Spyders (Gloom Prism)
3 x Canoptek Wraiths (1 with Particle Caster)
Canoptek Harvest # 2
9x Canoptek Scarab
1 x Canoptek Spyders
3 x Canoptek Wraiths
Crypteks join the scarabs and boost their early turn defenses (against Wyverns, etc.) until they are gigantic murdering blobs.
This list produces 220 points of free scarabs a turn.
You can optionally shave a couple spyders and the gloom prism and add a culexus (for invisi-stars).
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/07/22 20:11:51
Unless unbound, pretty sure daemon lords MUST be under 25% of your forces points. So there is a very good chance that the daemon lord army was an illegal army.
I've ran the doomsday ark twice now. Once the low positioning of it's gun bit me in the ass. The second time I was prepared, and it helped me lay down some pressure and pick off opponents. It's useful on it's own, but I don't think the formation is super useful, unless you love annihilation barges still. (they are not bad, just not as good)
How do you get 220 points per turn with 5 Spyders? A Scarab base is 20 points and each Spyder can create only 1 per turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yeah, the Daemon Lord was illegal, we found out halfway through the tourney. But, it's still indicative of GCs as a whole.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I actually think I will try out Scarab Farm, just need a few more Spyders.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/22 17:53:52
Daemon Lords from IA13 (An'ggrath the Unbound, Scabiethrax, Zaraknyei, or Aetaos'rau'keres) cannot cost more than 25% of the army to be legally fielded in a game of 40k, probably because they're completely insane. The cheapest (Zarakynel, the one at the event) costs 666, which means it needs to be run in a 2664 point game at the minimum (unless playing Apocalypse).
Requizen wrote: How do you get 220 points per turn with 5 Spyders? A Scarab base is 20 points and each Spyder can create only 1 per turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yeah, the Daemon Lord was illegal, we found out halfway through the tourney. But, it's still indicative of GCs as a whole.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I actually think I will try out Scarab Farm, just need a few more Spyders.
Requizen wrote: How do you get 220 points per turn with 5 Spyders? A Scarab base is 20 points and each Spyder can create only 1 per turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yeah, the Daemon Lord was illegal, we found out halfway through the tourney. But, it's still indicative of GCs as a whole.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I actually think I will try out Scarab Farm, just need a few more Spyders.
There is a total of 11 spyders in the list.
Ah, you only had one unit of 3 in HS before. Makes sense.
Yeah, you can spit out an absolutely dumb number of Scarabs by that method. One giant blob with 5++, RP, and Solar is actually pretty great all things considered.
Gwarsh: One thing that really bugs me about the annihilation nexus is that it is one of the very few things in our book that doesn't get Move Through Cover. Immobilizing my own anni barges on cover in my deployment zone is just flat-out demoralizing. In addition to all the other factors, not having MTC is the last little nudge that pushes that entire formation just outside of desirability for me.
Kind of miffed that my Flayed Ones won't have it either. Didn't realize that until after I'd started building them. They'll still be good, but those extra 2" on the charge would have been really nice.
I'd take the Nexus if it was 2 Doomsday Arks and 1 Barge. ABarges just feel really weak to me in this version. Expensive, and lost their ability to reliably Jink or shoot at flyers thanks to the Tesla change. Taking 2 just feels painful.
Requizen wrote: I'd take the Nexus if it was 2 Doomsday Arks and 1 Barge. ABarges just feel really weak to me in this version. Expensive, and lost their ability to reliably Jink or shoot at flyers thanks to the Tesla change. Taking 2 just feels painful.
2 DDarks and a AAbarge instead of the 1 and 2? I'd love to see that and with a different special rule like "Tesla Overcharge: As long as the AAbarge and at least one DDark is alive and no further then 6" from one another, each DDark within 6" of the AABarge gain twin-link" Now that would almost be worth running and I know I'd run it myself for giggles." Fluff of it would be the AAbarge is feeding more power to the DDarks.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Yeah, A-barges are very lackluster in this codex. And, the Annihilation Nexus just seems pitiful with what it actually gives you. I'd think that a Heavy Support formation would actually do something to bolster their offensive power of some sort, but naaaaah.
3k+
