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So I'm trying to find a fun but still marginally competitive list that I can take to local and national tournaments for the next year since I've already pulled down my golden ticket and can mostly retire my Space Wolves. I've always wanted to do a all bike list but just couldn't get into the idea of a marine bike army and then I saw the thread about Shining Spears and decided I wanted an pure eldar jetbike army. So here is my initial draft. It's gonna take a while to build and convert due to the extreme cost of a 47 Bike list.

Farseer-185
Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Jetbike

6 Warlocks-315
Jetbikes, 2xDestructor, 2xEmbolden, 1xEnhance

Autarch-130
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblaster

7 Jetbikes-185
Warlock, Embolden, Shining Spear

4 Jetbikes-119
Warlock, Embolden, Shining Spear

4 Jetbikes-119
Warlock, Embolden, Shining Spear

4 Jetbikes-119
Warlock, Embolden, Shining Spear

4 Jetbikes-119
Warlock, Embolden

5 Shining Spears-237
Exarch, Withdraw, Skilled Rider, Starlance

5 Shining Spears-237
Exarch, Withdraw, Skilled Rider, Starlance

5 Shining Spears-237
Exarch, Withdraw, Skilled Rider, Starlance

Total:1999
Total Models: 47

So thoughts?

Screw it, no quotes!

Well, first thing first, I count 46 bikes, I am probably doing something wrong though, wouldn't surprise me.

Alright, i've played a list quite like this a few times. (Alright, twice, you caught me )

The problem is the elite choices.

At 2,000 points, plenty of armies will have enough to completely wipe out multiple units of shining spears in one round of shooting.

720 points into fifteen T4 3+ save models, that if they don't kill what they assault, they'll be neutered in effectiveness... severely... especially against marine equivalents.

The troops aren't too hot either.

Think of it this way, you have three squads of four marines for troop choices. (As far as durability goes, outside of being able to turbo-boost and outrange the enemy, and so forth...)

One squad of seven tacked on to there. Yippee, they won't fail a leadership save! (I kid, I kid)

This list will really only perform well against armies with multiple vehicles, with multiple small units meant purely to control objectives... which quite frankly aren't that common. You really need to either go first, or, or come in reserves reliably. (Should be able to with the autarch)

Council is a effective unit, I usually go big or go home with five or more warlocks with destructor, just out of personal preference though. (I used a six man squad once... I fell asleep during that match...[vassal])

Outside of the council, you have 38 T4 3+ 1W models, split into 7, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 4, and 4.

Strengths:

Wreck tanks.
Mobility.

Weaknesses:

Numbers.
Anti-MEQ's (Aside from the spears)...

EDIT-I put think of it this way quite alot... it is pretty late in all fairness... and with that note, they're gone!

@IS

Your making no sense! I want you to use your words!

Hulksmash wrote:@IS

Your making no sense! I want you to use your words!

Tottaly agree btw look through his list, they are weak

back to Your list

1. Would give 2 spears to the warlocks in seer council, that way they could also pop vehicles and then assault what is inside

2. I have been using JGU with warlocks as well ,they work excellent, try adding destructor for the warlock (but without spear) in that way You have got very mobile heavy flamer unit, which can toast some stuff (i know that LD8 without embolden is weak but it is worth the risk)

3. Actually this is the first time I think Shining spears unit may work, nice configuration

4. Your weakness is totally lack of long range fire support, and that my friend, may cost You dearly

5. Would love to hear battle report after the match, Could You send me PM ??

10pts for a shuriken cannon is a baring (and needed in a list like this)

I would go for dual Councils instead of the Shining Spears

@Tedurur

I don't wanna run dual councils. And I do want to run Shining Spears (mostly to show they can be used). Not that 2 councils might not be more competitive but the only way to do spears is to run a lot of them.

@Zachar

I agree about the spears. I may add them to the council but the thing is I do have 5 other spears that can be used to support and destroy the vehicle for them. I think with a smaller council (7 models total) it's more important to get the attacks in cc.

As for the lack of long ranged support I'd say 30" range is pretty good for taking out vehicles (Spears) and the nothing will be out of range by turn 2 so I'm not as worried about it.

Do Vypers count as jetbikes in this case (they are pretty close)? I'm assuming no Prisms etc though? I would probably rather run 3 x 3 Vypers than the Spears if I was running a Jetbike themed list. The Vypers are very helpful at keeping things away from your Jetbikes (block/providing cover) and gets you a whole bunch of S6 shooting which is always helpful. A jetbike list is well suited to a S6 shoot spam list (much like most Eldar lists really) if you want to go that way, Vypers + Jetbike Cannons everywhere deal with most things, just back away and shoot everything to death, you can use a JetCouncil to chase anything heavier that they can't handle.

As it is I expect you can probably de-mech people in a best case scenario (i.e you don't lose more than 2 out of the four powerful units you have to work with before you can strike, the Council + 3 x Shining Spears, not exactly guaranteed) but even if you do there isn't a whole heap of firepower in this list which can drop infantry once you do open up the tanks. The most obvious issue is that the units you are expecting to open up tanks are same units you are expecting to kill the infantry inside, the Council and Shining Spears have to do all the heavy lifting (4 Singing Spears from the Jetbikes isn't really going to do a hell of a lot). Considering that you will most likely need to charge in order to kill tanks those units are going to be wide open to being countered and shot to pieces/assaulted by the units inside, the Council might be able to get away with this kind of thing but the Spears won't take that kind of a beating.

The Shining Spears are going to be everyones first target anyway as they are easy to drop, followed by the Council (who aren't easy to kill but will cry when they run into Hoods or Null Zone) and I don't fancy taking on anything with 23 Jetbikes and 4 Singing Spears.

Obviously Dual Councils is going to be more effective than the Shining Spears, but if you don't want to run them then fair enough. Even making a single larger Council is probably be more effective as well but again up to you. However without JetCouncils, you pretty much have to take the Shining Spears as there aren't really any other ways to get anything resembling decent anti tank firepower into a Jetbike themed list unless you go the S6 spam route (the only army you won't like facing is Guard but you have the speed to get to side armour) or you take Prisms/some other grav tank (which isn't really in theme) or do something really silly like take Vypers with Bright Lances.

I would really recommend finding some points to give the Jetbikes Shuriken Cannons though, you have absolutely no range to work with otherwise and against anything other than standard infantry on foot (JSJ won't help if they can move faster than 6" per turn) you have to choose between shooting and probably getting punched in the face next turn or just running away and hiding. While obviously the plan is to have the Council or Spears deal with threats like this, they can't be everywhere at once so having the Jetbikes able to fend for themselves a bit will be helpful. Having a couple of Destructor Warlocks in the Jetbike units would be helpful as well, you could probably get away with a couple of units without Embolden if you use them carefully.

Consider taking a second Seer even if you don't run another Council, Fortune on big unit of jetbikes with Shuriken Cannons (with Guide as well if possible) is a real pain to take down, and a fraction of the cost of a JetCouncil + is scoring with Ld10. Imo if you don't plan or expect to be using the reserve bonus from the Autarch much (who would really like Fusion Gun if he stays in the list) then the second Seer will be more helpful, the added support abilities are probably going to be more helpful than a few extra kills in assault. Also you probably need Witnessing if you are running a Council, you hinge on getting Fortune up or a huge chunk of your army disappears, against other Eldar or Nids you really need it and it doesn't hurt to be able to pass 99% of the time in any case (its something insanely high with Witnessing + Embolden).

@IS

The only armies that has enough boom to get rid of lots of units on turn #1 is IG and Wolves. Now if i'm going first they'll be boosting which means neither of these lists will be able to take out a unit. And SS are only critical against MEQ's and MC's. Against guard they are overkill anyway so it would actually be piss poor target priority to hit them.

If i'm going second I'm probably not starting on the table with good reason. Not only am I eliminating 2 of their shooting phases but I'm gonna control the game when I come on the table. This is another large reason for me to be fielding the Autarch. Getting everything on turn 3 on a 2+ is huge.

Against MEQ, unless they are fielding large units (which I've found is rarer than 6 mans in RB's) I can torrent them down. If it is a large unit it's not much of a threat since it's only a single heavy weapon. My spears or council are excellent for killing meq units of any size. And if they wiff then I take one extra turn of beating and hit-n-run. I might do that even if I win since it's harder to break a unit out of combat.

The list as a whole should only have to worry about IG and FnP heavy builds. But that could just be my local meta. I'll be seeing how other parts of the country live in August and look forward to strange builds giving my Wolves a run

@Powerguy

Vypers would be cool if it didn't give a target for anti-tank weapons. Think about it this way. If you have a turbo-boosted jetbike or an open-topped AV10 vehicle to shoot with a rocket which do you go for? The one that goes down on a 3+ roll from penetrating. Switching it out makes target priority easier.

Hoods work is a roll off. It will stop probably 1-2 attempts all tourney which could suck but if I properly isolate the Librarian (killing his transport to make him walk) I can determine that bubble. Also Nullzone isn't to spiffy since are you going to risk losing your librarian on a less than even chance to make me re-roll?

I am considering Shuriken Cannons. The cost hurts and so does the BS3. Having used Multi-lasers for years I know about how often those extra shots make a difference on vehicles (not very) but I am trying to at least add 2 to the larger squad.

The second Seer is out because I need the bonus to my reserve rolls since there are games where I will start in reserve to limit my opponents opening shooting phases.

I would increase the size of your council to maximum, and then use the council as a screen for everything that doesn't happen to be turbo boosting that turn.

10 strong seer council on bikes is very resilient to all types of shooting.

Vypers also bring cheap heavy weapons and can produce a volume of fire similar to War Walkers, while and still keep the theme. Vypers can also be easily screened by jetbikes.

I might drop a troop unit. That would allow me to bump the council up to 9 instead of 6. That leaves me a little light on scorers (I like to have 20+ MEQ wounds at 2k) but it could be worth it.

Hulksmash wrote:I might drop a troop unit. That would allow me to bump the council up to 9 instead of 6. That leaves me a little light on scorers (I like to have 20+ MEQ wounds at 2k) but it could be worth it.

I would drop your 7 man unit down to 4, and then replace a unit of Shining Spears with a squadron of 3x Dual Shuricannon or Dual Scatter Laser Vypers. That should also net you enough points for 9 warlocks on jetbikes, leave your HTH relatively intact and give you alot more dakka.

Consider 6-elf GJS. Give x2 ShurCans. I haven't used Warlocks in my squads. Yet, they didn't fail LDR too often. The firepower the bikes throw out will be a pleasant surprise for you.

Make the council bigger, as they will be doing most of the HtH work. Great for multi-charging vehicles.

Vypers fit the theme good, but I would consider Warwalkers for the extra shot and the out flanking. Try them both to make decision.

Build it and try it out. I haven't used Shing Spears so I can't say one way or other.

Zachar wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:@IS

Your making no sense! I want you to use your words!

Tottaly agree btw look through his list, they are weak

God you're petty...

My lists are weak? Funny. Coming from you.

Funnier when you barge into my threads with your points, that are completely... baffling.

I find your counter-productive advice ot clog up this forum, which, shouldn't happen quite frankly.

How many tournaments have you attended let alone placed? I plan on attending the NOVA Open this August. (Good luck to all attending)

My advice has gotten many praises, people PM me for advice, and I even get some PM's simply thanking me for the advice I gave them. I'm sure you haven't even recieved a lick of gratitude.

((Truly sorry, though I would hate for some of my frequent advice in this forum to go unheard, due to a poster slighting my abilites. This probably won't accomplish much, though it makes me feel a bit better...))

Hulksmash wrote:@IS

The only armies that has enough boom to get rid of lots of units on turn #1 is IG and Wolves. Now if i'm going first they'll be boosting which means neither of these lists will be able to take out a unit. And SS are only critical against MEQ's and MC's. Against guard they are overkill anyway so it would actually be piss poor target priority to hit them.

When you come over for the NOVA, you'll see what east coast fire power is.

Against MEQ, unless they are fielding large units (which I've found is rarer than 6 mans in RB's) I can torrent them down. If it is a large unit it's not much of a threat since it's only a single heavy weapon. My spears or council are excellent for killing meq units of any size. And if they wiff then I take one extra turn of beating and hit-n-run. I might do that even if I win since it's harder to break a unit out of combat.

Meh, even though I have only faced it in a tournament once, one of the lists I fear above all others is a priests packing, jump pack spamming assault marine blood angels list, probably from my inexperience against them, though they usually end up formatting my lists in one way or another... Irrational fear of BA.

The list as a whole should only have to worry about IG and FnP heavy builds. But that could just be my local meta. I'll be seeing how other parts of the country live in August and look forward to strange builds giving my Wolves a run

Good luck then, hope I don't run into your wolves.

I would honestly consider taking an alternative to one squad of either shining spears or jetbikes. Shuriken cannons could be maxed out on your guardian jetbikes, for sixty points, though six shuriken cannons on those units is a steal. 180 points for six shuriken cannons on three vypers for a comparison, 120 points for six on some warwalkers. If you're going to take jetbikes, shuriken cannons are rarely not a worthy investment. Don't know how you could use that for the planned conversions though.