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Hello,

I'd like to receive comments on the viability of my Ork army list, mainly for friendly games. I haven't chosen the Red paintjob always because I don't want an all-red army, my army having paint colours for all the six clans (and Freeboters) in order to be useable for Gorkamorka foremost. Some units will also be modelled after orky Genestealer hybrids.

I'd also like to receive feedback on suggestions about what should be eliminated to get the list to 2000 points. I was thinking about taking two less Boys units and no Kommandos for 2000 pts games.

Thanks!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HQ (1-2) Points Options
1 Big Mek 100 Kustom Force Field, Grot oilers (3x)
1 Warphead 85 Warphead

Elite (0-3) Points Options
6 Nobz + 1 Painboy 210 Painboy, Big Choppa, 'Eavy Armour, Bosspole
14 Lootas + 1 Mek 230 Deffguns (14x), Rokkit launcha (1x), Mek's tools
15 Kommandos + Snikrot 215 Sluggas & Choppas (13x), Burnas (2x)

Fast (0-3) Points Options
19 Stormboyz + 1 Nob 285 Nob ('Eavy Armour, Bosspole, Power Klaw)
3 Deffkoptas 135 Twin-linked Rokkit launchas (x3)
3 Warbuggies 120 Twin-linked Rokkit launchas (x3), Red Paint Job

Heavy Support (0-3) Points Options
1 Battlewagon (Offensif) 180 Killkannon, 'Ardcase, Grot Riggers, Armour Plates
1 Battlewagon (Transport) 160 Kannon, Rokkit launchas (4x), Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Armour Plates
3 Killer Kans 165 Dreadnough melee weapon (3x), Kustom Mega Blasta (3x)

Troops (2-6) Points Options
20 Gretchin + 2 Runtherds 80 Runtherd (Grabba Stick x2, Squig Hounds x2)
11 Boyz + 1 Nob 147 Sluggas & Choppas (10x), Big Shoota (1x), Nob ('Eavy Armour, Bosspole, Big Choppa), Trukk (Red Paint Job)
11 Boyz + 1 Nob 147 Sluggas & Choppas (10x), Big Shoota (1x), Nob ('Eavy Armour, Bosspole, Big Choppa), Trukk (Ram)
18 Boys + 1 Nob 149 Sluggas & Choppas (16x), Big Shootas (2x), Nob ('Eavy Armour, Bosspole, Big Choppa)
11 Boyz + 1 Nob 92 Sluggas & Choppas (10x), Big Shoota (1x), Nob (Bosspole)

TOTAL 2500

The biggest problem this list encounters is your splitting between a mech and a slogging force. I would mech up all the troops with the following changes-

The non Killkannon BW is a free transport for Nobs, so remove that thing from the Heavy Support option!

Nobs need some PKs. Also find another HQ than a Warphead, as the Nobs could become a troop option with another Warboss or the Prophet.

If you do free up that extra elite slot, throw in some burnas into a BW (they take up separate slots).

Put the 18 boyz without a ride into a BW.

Remove the Killkannon from the BW and Stormboyz and 1 Deffkopta. Split the two remaining deffkoptas into two units, and give each a buzzsaw.

Nob led boyz don't need 'eavy Armor (the ones in da trukk at least don't). Make sure all boyz not in a BW have a trukk.

Turn the weapons on the kans into something else. I like grotzookas, but rokkit launchas are also nice.

Now your list has some synergy and maxed almost all slots. There are probably a few other nit-picking things I could do, such as changing the BW boyz to shoota guys, but now it is a tighter list.

Thanks for the input WarOne.

That's a lot of changes at first glance. I need to consider the implications.

Your suggestion to add Powerklaws to my Nobs will rise their price cost by 120 pts, and the addition of Burnas would add also 150 pts. Plus the Warboss. I get it that the economy in points would be done by removing the Killkannon, the Warphead and especially the Stormboyz. I can also economise by removing the Nob's 'Eavy Armorz and the Kan's weapons.

I was thinking about making the BigMek my general, inside the transport Battlewagon, and keep the Lootas with their Mek near the Killkannon Battlewagon as distant support. My (many) Fast units were to be used for flanking and the Boyz as the big force, screened by the Gretchin.

If I get your suggestions right the list would become :


HQ (1-2)
1 Big Mek with Force Field, Grot oilers (3x)
*1 Warboss (instead of Warphead)

Elite (0-3)
14 Lootas + 1 Mek
15 Kommandos + Snikrot
Burnas

Fast (0-3)
1 Deffkopta (instead of 3 Deffkoptas) + Powerklaws
1 Deffkopta (instead of Stormboyz) Powerklaws
3 Warbuggies

Heavy Support (0-3)
1 Battlewagon without Killkannon
3 Killer Kans with Rokkit launchers

Troops (2-6) (few changes)
6 Nobz + 1 Painboy + Powerklaws
----> 1 Battlewagon (Transport) 160 Kannon, Rokkit launchas (4x), Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Armour Plates
20 Gretchin + 2 Runtherds
11 Boyz + 1 Nob w/o armour, Trukk
11 Boyz + 1 Nob w/o armour, Trukk
11 Boyz + 1 Nob w/o armour, Trukk
18 Boys + 1 Nob


A few questions :
1- Are the Stormboyz a unit I really should abandon? I like their concept a lot... My Stormboyz are making the core of my army and most expensive unit, and a theme favourite (Khorne stormboyz), hence a conondrum. The tactica on the Dakkadakka site also recommends Stormboyz en masse.

2- Without a Killkannon, am I not left without anti-tank capacity?

3- Aren't burnas very limited to close range, and expensive and anti-infantry (as compared to Lootas)? The tactica on the Dakkadakka site heavily recommend Lootas and considers Burnas poor.

4-Is the Warphead that bad? I had the impression that the Warboss was a very boring unit, its only advantage being to offer up 1 set of Nobs as Troops.

5-Why drop the Deffkoptas (I have 3 models)? Too fragile?

6- Aren't Powerklaws very expensive at 25 pts a piece? Are they really worth the price of 4 Boys per claw?
Example : 4 Boyz = 8 additional attacks in melee and 8 additional Wounds per unit, against Space Marines with a 66% save (giving an average of three S3/S4 (on charge) attacks per round with a 33%/50% chance of wounding vs T4, hence an average of additional 1.5 wounds per turn vs space marines) get in versus transforming the Nobz' actual attacks (+0 attacks) by a single S10 power weapon attack for the price of 4 boys. With the 9 powerklaws you suggest that's the equivalent of losing 36 boys hence 72 additional attacks at S4/S3? Of course the lower the enemy's armour, the more optimal more boyz become, the reverse being true...

Thanks for your help!

Questions answered in order:

1. Stormboyz are on the fence. They are good, but the fast attack slot has much better options. If you drop the buggies, add in the stormboyz. You will find rare times when they should be deep striked, so they will be moving up the board to flank and harass the enemy, ducking in and out of cover. They don't have a transport or BW backing them up, making them very vulnerable, and they could rokkitpack casualties onto themselves by rolling a 1.

Ork "filossefy" is to get ork boyz into kombat and deliver those orks with powerklaws. Anything that protects them and achieves the objective of getting orks into kombat works. Rokkitpacks are a subpar way of doing this versus trukks (which do it faster), Warp'eads (which is random), and BWs (which are the optimal choice).

2. Your anti-tank capacity as followed:

Anything with a powerklaw.
Lootas.
Deffkoptas.
BWs with Deffrollas.
Kans with Rokkit Launchas.
Buggies with Rokkit Launchas.
Anything with a Rokkit Launcha.

3.Burnas have a special place in an ork army- in a BW. As orks can get outhorded by an opponent and people least expect it, the burnawagon trundles up to an opponent. Since it is open topped, you drop that template from any part of the BW hull. Now multiply it by the number of burnas in the wagon and the number of models under the template and you may of just caused anywhere from 30-90 wounds for free. As a last resort, Burnas can use their weapons to rip through tough enenmies.

4. Warphead is a situational, random chance HQ that is great for that one mob of 30 'ard boyz to pop right behind an enemy and start blazing away with shootas. It could generate a Waaagh! as well, but everything is up to chance. You cannot often rely upon him to make things work enough of the time.

5. Deffkoptas operate as a 1-of suicide tank hunter. You scout up 12", then move 12", shoot your twin linked rokkits, and then dive into side or rear armor of a low AV and pop medium sized tanks or transports.

If you field more, take 5 as 1 casualty causes the whole unit to flee a decent chunk of the time, and give it wound allocation by equipping each Deffkopta differently. In a sense, taking just three is morale fragile, but you will find the deffkopta to be a fairly durable unit when you do not suicide it.

6- Powerklaws give orks the ability to end the lives of multiwound and resilient units as well as one of the most reliable ways to pop the side of a vehicle. You gave the nob squad way too many PKs. Mix in some Waagh banners, combi-rokkits, ammo runts, boss pole, Big Choppas, and make sure each nob has a unique set up in terms of gear they carry.

And keep in mind that any PK hit that is unsaved will kill that marine without having to use toughness as a cheap way out of his deserved death. You want a PK in every unit that you can give one to it as it helps rip though special characters, elites, MCs, tanks, vehicles of all sorts, and in a Nob squad, only 2-3 are really needed. The rest mix in regular choppas and big choppas.

POWER KLAWS ARE WORTH IT!

This is the official information. There is no way in hell that you should ever take a boys squad without the klaw. There's several reasons:

1) Vehicles. Remember those? A rear armor 10 vehicle is glanced on a 6 on the charge, and is unhurtable by standard boys. In contrast, a power klaw glances on a 1, 2 off the charge.

2) Walkers - Boyz cannot hurt a dreadnaught. Period. They can't even hurt a killa kan. The Klaw can.

3) Multiwound models - Against anything with multiple wounds, and armor, the klaw will do a lot more than 4 boyz. Some days, more than 10.

4) Termies. 2+ vs. 5+. Nice.

5) Carnifex. God it's nice to actually be able, to... I dunno. Wound it? Same thing as walkers, only a fex will eat your boyz quicker if you can't even wound it.

There are many units against which you have 1 nob, and 19 or 29 smelly, oversized grots.

Thanks for the replies! I was counting on the rokkits and deffguns as anti-tanks, but I get the idea = taking nobz with klaws and protecting them with boyz. I'll reajust the PK thing according to your suggestions.

In such a perspective, is a Nob mobz worth it? That's many points with few models, though I understand a trukk can move them and others can screen them.

I was considering using the buggies as a shooty screen for the trukks behind, the stormboyz (which I'll take less)on one side and the copters (which I'll take 5) on the other.

I think I'll drop the Weirdboy. I had the idea cross my mind of taking two Big Meks, one with a forcefield, the other with a shok attack gun. I also noticed that Imperial Armour no.8 mentions a dedicated transport option for Big Meks useable with codex armies, that allows a ride to be equipped with a force field or a shok attack gun. That'd allow me two take two force fields, spread them out (one mech in a battlewagon, and the other probably not in the ff transport to avoid concentrating target priorities)

I really don't like the Warboss concept of a single, huge melee monster. I'd rather have several less tempting targets... I get the idea that orks are basically a melee army, but unless playing in a City Fight, running without cover means dying a lot and I'm not too much into "godzilla" style super-character... Snikrot being the only character I find tempting because of its flanking ability. (If not for this, I'd drop maybe the kommandos for two Loota mobs).

NB : I'm planning for friendly games, not tournaments, and lists which are foremost fun to play - hence the idea of the Weirdboy in the first hand...

Thanks again!

Dude!

Nobz are the best. The most successful Ork list prior to the IG codex was centered entirely on Nobs, riding bikes, who don't DIE!

There's many posts on this forum about how to build a complex nob unit so I won't add to the pile.

Also, the Warboss is amazing. He's S10 with a PK, he makes a complex nob unit scoring and only suffers ID from S10 hits. Running him without a battlewagon or a bike is bound to get him killed.

Stick him with the Big Mek and large Boyz mob in the Battlewagon. When they roll up, split him off from the unit and he can take out small units without a scratch while the Boyz, hit something more dicey which could target him as an IC and have the supernob unit crush Terminators in Land Raiders.

You need to have a good alternative to not including a Warboss. He's that good.

Also consider shaving off some of those upgrades on the Wagons, you can buy more stuff and wagons are best run strip down to fit in more PKs. Also Nob leaders shouldn't wear armour as they can't be directly targeted except by weapons/powers that will probably ignore the armour save.

OK I get the idea.

- I'll lighten up the gear for the vehicles and the mobz. Notably armour.
- I'll give all mobs a Nob with a Powerklaw, and 3 for my Nobz mob.
- I'll take a warboss. I'll make a conversion to make him the big mek's "superbot" and not the army general, which makes no difference in wh40k unlike wfb.

Bikes are expensive in $ and I have no models, unlike buggies & waggons I can convert from the dollar store. My main battlewagon will be a converted gijoe snowcat vehicle, and i just converted my tank wagon from my kids' old construction vehicle (removed the crane, added a big gun and plating.)

Thanks everyone!