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So, in a few threads I've heard some people say that they hate Ultramarines, but they still think they're better than the Blood Ravens. Why is this?


Is Soulstorm really that bad?

Because they were invented by Relic, who I'm really happy made the 40k videogames (I really enjoy them), but who get fluff stuff wrong a lot.

Twin Las-linked cannons being an example. (Not actually in-game, but was said during an interview - any normal 40k fan probably wouldn't have made that mistake)

Also and more importantly, The Writer That Shall Not Be Named writes about Blood Ravens. This pretty much destroys their credibility as a chapter.

The whole unknown Primarch non-sense. It's a viloation of page 1 of 'how not to write a Mary Sue'. A flaw is not a flaw if it only makes the character (chapter) more awesome! This also applies to their so-called geneseed defect that gives them perfect recal. That's not a flaw either, but Relic seem to want to sell it as one.

Regarding the unknown Primarch thing, it's simply lazy writing and pretty silly even if it weren't part of the Mar Sue feel the chapter have.

It'd take all of half an hour for the ad-mech to take a look at the chapter's geneseed tithe and identify its origin. Also - if it were even suspected that a chapter were descended from Magnus that chapter would be up to its eyeballs in Inquisitors and Battle Sisters before you could say 'more than the normal number of librarians'.

Which brings us on to Magnus... Magnus' geneseed is legendary for its high mutation rate, from which the Blood Ravens do not suffer. They also seemed to have dodged the Rubric somehow.

So yeah... It's one of those 'have your cake and eat it' things.

Blood Ravens do not know their origins (which makes them cooler), but they are descended from Magnus (which makes them cooler) and so have cool psykers (which makes them cooler) but none of the downsides (which would be uncool).


The whole chapter smacks of it and doesn't fit into the established 'verse as well as it should.

Also, the name? Is that really the best they could do?

Also, also: Ever see the intro to the original game?

'I, brother sergeant Baldy McShouting will have my devestator squad leave cover to charge uphill and engage Orks in hand-to-hand, knowing that reinforcements are coming right now.'

How did this yoyo ever make sergeant?

Azezel wrote:'I, brother sergeant Baldy McShouting will have my devestator squad leave cover to charge uphill and engage Orks in hand-to-hand, knowing that reinforcements are coming right now.'

How did this yoyo ever make sergeant?

This is a perfect example of how Relic didn't quite know too much about the 40K universe when they made the original DoW, and why the Blood Ravens seem out of place

I did like the sequel though, the skirmish mode triumphs over the original. They got the emotional aspect right for each army.

I hate the Chaos pre-pubescent cultists in DoW, but their inflection is awesome (and I'd assume more realistic) in DoW II

Xca|iber wrote:Because they were invented by Relic, who I'm really happy made the 40k videogames (I really enjoy them), but who get fluff stuff wrong a lot.

Twin Las-linked cannons being an example. (Not actually in-game, but was said during an interview - any normal 40k fan probably wouldn't have made that mistake)

Also and more importantly, The Writer That Shall Not Be Named writes about Blood Ravens. This pretty much destroys their credibility as a chapter.

agreed 100 %

Dessloch wrote:

This is a perfect example of how Relic didn't quite know too much about the 40K universe when they made the original DoW, and why the Blood Ravens seem out of place

This is true. Relic got the feel of the universe right, the, for want of a better word grimdark. They also got the frenetic, brutal vibe that 40k combat should have. But they got a lot of the things in that universe wrong.

Oh, and OP - Soulstorm IS that bad if you're a Sisters player.

Azezel wrote:

Dessloch wrote:

This is a perfect example of how Relic didn't quite know too much about the 40K universe when they made the original DoW, and why the Blood Ravens seem out of place

This is true. Relic got the feel of the universe right, the, for want of a better word grimdark. They also got the frenetic, brutal vibe that 40k combat should have. But they got a lot of the things in that universe wrong.

Oh, and OP - Soulstorm IS that bad if you're a Sisters player.

QFT

I have a friend who collects a Raven Guard army. Decently painted, and I have no problem with them, they work just like any other army and are much more fun to play against then a legion of blue. However, he does take a Raven Gaurd-painted Lysander in some competitive matches. That kind of irks me.


BTW, was it a Devestator squad or a Tactical Squad with a Heavy Bolter? That and they had a Dreadnought in tow.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have a friend who collects a Raven Guard army. Decently painted, and I have no problem with them, they work just like any other army and are much more fun to play against then a legion of blue. However, he does take a Raven Gaurd-painted Lysander in some competitive matches. That kind of irks me.


BTW, was it a Devestator squad or a Tactical Squad with a Heavy Bolter? That and they had a Dreadnought in tow.

It was in fact a Tactical Squad, if that helps.

In DOW devastators dont exist so it was a tactical squad with multiple heavybolters .

The Sargent was a dimwit his tactical position was sound

Lets review

He was dug in to heavy cover

He had the orks exhausting there infantry throwing themselves onto his heavy weaponry , a dreadnought for support and major reinforcements streaking from the sky and what does he order ... CHARGE !!!!

So he gets all his squad killed and the venerable brother dreadnought blown to bits .. TO PLANT A FLAG ON A HILL !!!!

Not a smart move

Blood Ravens, not Raven Guard.

And I grant that it's been a while since I watched the DoW intro, but I seem to recal more than one heavy bolter and at least one lascannon. In any event that Sergeant was a galactic level tit.

The lascannons were on a predator ( it got blowed up )
But yes he was a tit

I thought the intro was awesome until I actually learned a thing or two about WH40K. Now I just feel stupid every time I watch it haha

darkangels_rule wrote:The lascannons were on a predator ( it got blowed up )
But yes he was a tit

Having watched it on yourtube I stand corrected - that does appear to be a tac-squad and it was a predator with the lascannon.

Wow I love Blood Ravens the only good book was the first one. Then it went down to crap city. But Dawn of War 2 was awesome! I love tarkus and the other blood ravens. They were too cool. but only problem I had with it was that the eldar were rigged. And for christ sake they are desecendaded from the blood Angels! But instead share misforutane. See the Blood angels do have more psykers but during the horus hersey they were disbanded which means they did not have as many. But almost all 90% of the Thousand Sons were pyskers. My chapter has tons only because we don't follow the Codex's numbers policy. But no Relic had to decide to make a chapter like this. Libarains are alot stronger than what they say they are. The Thousands Sons book is a good read but still they were tainted which means their geneseed would never be used, but I highly doubt the Adeptus Terra would never allow a geneseed to pass to a run of the mill chapter. hell look at the Lementors and Black Dragons they are cursed with mutations and curses.
Who says they were not founded until the 23rd founding?

I like the Blood Ravens, but they are ridiculous. That is why I like 'em.

If I were to make a Space Marine army it would be Blood Ravens.

I must first concede to Azezel's point regarding their background. Aze got it correct on the first try, saddling them with a bunch of character flaws that aren't really flaws is entirely bogus. I find the (story of the) Blood Ravens to be one dimensional and written in the purest sense of fanboyism. Whoever wrote their background should take a job writing the next Blade movie.

I must defend the DoW intro though. I love that little video. I frequently start up DoW in order to watch it if I have had a bad day. I don't even need to play the game. The impression I got was that the marines were taking that hill in order to call down the reinforcements that you see arriving. I am assuming that the flag that that guy planted was what was carrying whatever kind of signaling device the drop pods were waiting on to lock on through all that cloud cover.

But that's just me.

Asherian Command wrote:Wow I love Blood Ravens the only good book was the first one. Then it went down to crap city. But Dawn of War 2 was awesome! I love tarkus and the other blood ravens. They were too cool. but only problem I had with it was that the eldar were rigged. And for christ sake they are desecendaded from the blood Angels! But instead share misforutane. See the Blood angels do have more psykers but during the horus hersey they were disbanded which means they did not have as many. But almost all 90% of the Thousand Sons were pyskers. My chapter has tons only because we don't follow the Codex's numbers policy. But no Relic had to decide to make a chapter like this. Libarains are alot stronger than what they say they are. The Thousands Sons book is a good read but still they were tainted which means their geneseed would never be used, but I highly doubt the Adeptus Terra would never allow a geneseed to pass to a run of the mill chapter. hell look at the Lementors and Black Dragons they are cursed with mutations and curses.
Who says they were not founded until the 23rd founding?

I can barely understand what you're trying to say here. There is very little evidence that the BRs were a BA successor. They don't have any of the BA flaws. The ONLY chapter to fix those was the Lamenters, who were basically a joke chapter (aka the horrible luck thing - which made me chuckle, I'll admit). Everything after that second sentence makes no sense whatsoever...

Oh, and did you just say that a book written by That Writer That Shall Not Be Named... was good? That is heresy of the HIGHEST ORDER.

Azezel wrote:

darkangels_rule wrote:The lascannons were on a predator ( it got blowed up )
But yes he was a tit

Having watched it on yourtube I stand corrected - that does appear to be a tac-squad and it was a predator with the lascannon.

OK, let's recap. You (the Sergeant) have a predator and a strong defensive position. Predetor is blown up from Ork anti-tank missile. The only reason you aren't immediately overrun is due to the help of your freindly neighborhood dreadnought. For whatever reason, you need to capture that strategic point, and you need to capture it today (if only to ensure that the incoming reinforcements have a secure landing zone). Rather than let your Dreadnought to succumb to missile fire like the Predator you decide to take the initiative and sound a charge. The tactical squad is taking a beating, but it looks good so far. The only reason that you find yourself in deep gak is due to the happy-go-lucky ork that is ballsy enough to try and latch a meltabomb onto the Dreadnought. gak happens. *shrug*

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azezel wrote:

darkangels_rule wrote:The lascannons were on a predator ( it got blowed up )
But yes he was a tit

Having watched it on yourtube I stand corrected - that does appear to be a tac-squad and it was a predator with the lascannon.

OK, let's recap. You (the Sergeant) have a predator and a strong defensive position. Predetor is blown up from Ork anti-tank missile. The only reason you aren't immediately overrun is due to the help of your freindly neighborhood dreadnought. For whatever reason, you need to capture that strategic point, and you need to capture it today (if only to ensure that the incoming reinforcements have a secure landing zone). Rather than let your Dreadnought to succumb to missile fire like the Predator you decide to take the initiative and sound a charge. The tactical squad is taking a beating, but it looks good so far. The only reason that you find yourself in deep gak is due to the happy-go-lucky ork that is ballsy enough to try and latch a meltabomb onto the Dreadnought. gak happens. *shrug*

Let's also recall that the dreadnaught had seemed to have pinned down the Orks, after wiping out a good chunk of them as well with a sweep of the assault cannon. After the charge was begun then we get to see that the Orks have been holding back their own infantry as well, giving them the numbers to begin to cut down the tactical squad. And as Emperors Faithful pointed out, they were doing fine until the dreadnaught exploded, taking out a good chunk of both sides.

The marines were the ones pinned down, not the Orks. If they had stayed there they would have been slaughtered... until the Dreadnaught came you can tell by the Marines' comments that they were getting overrun.