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Broken out of another thread.

Not to take anything away from the original poster but I was thinking of starting a Wood Elf army with the new edition and was looking at something like this:

Wood Elf Highborn
--Wild Rider, Great Stag, Twilight Spear, Oaken Armor
Spellsinger
--Dispel Scroll
Wood Elf Nobel
--ABSB, Great Eagle, Bow of Loren

Wild Riders x8 w/ FC
6 x Treekin w/ Champ
6 x Treekin w/ Champ

20x Glade Guard w/ Musc
20 x Glade Guard w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc

About 58 points over, not sure at this point where to shave the points from. Not sure how this'll work with 8th edition but the Kin should be boss and provide the core the army revolves around since Woodies don't have the rank and file that the edition concentrates on. Thoughts?

Up untill I have some more experience with the current edition I was trying to steer clear of the skirmishers, the new formation seems a bit funky to me and I'm not sure how effective it would be.

I think I am missing something, what is ABSB? If it is simply a BSB then it is an interesting idea giving him a Bow of Loren. I had to re-read the rules to see if it was allowed but it only says you drop your longbow when you take the BSB upgrade. However there might well be something in the main rulebook saying a BSB can't use any weapon that requires 2 hands.
It is an allright list but the hardest hitting thing you have is the treekin which are only S5. Personally I would drop 1 of treekin units and take a Treeman + beef out the rest of the army a little. I believe it has been mentioned before but the champion in the treekin unit isn't really worth the points. It just makes you have 19 instead of 18 attacks and means you have to waste 4 of them in challenges often. All for 20 points. If you changed the one treekin unit to a treeman + got rid of the other champion you would have 135 points difference. (so 77 under) Would allow you to take the divination orb on the spellsinger.

I think the divination orb is an arcane choice, and as dispel scrolls can no longer be taken in addition to another arcane choice (I think!) you would only be able to have one or the other. Divination orb is a good choice, though!

I'm not sure about including the spellsinger as-is... what I'd really like to see is a level 4!! But obviously you'll need a heap of points for that

Going with the list as you've posted it, you could save 40 points from the treekin elders so that gets you closer. But you need some standards! If you roll the "breaking point" mission, you will instantly lose as it is.

Also, where is the highborn going? Right now he looks like a big, juicy target . Although I love the idea of putting your BSB on an eagle!! Maybe the highborn could get one, too . It'd be awesome, although I don't know how effective it would be... probably moreso than the great stag! I have one, and have used him, and the stag is underwhelming. It also isn't a good fit since it makes him a forest spirit, and he can only join units of forest spirits- meaning the treekin. That's not a terrible idea, as they have the same base size so I think he would get a "look out sir!" save, but it just doesn't seem like a great fit.

Overall, though, I love the idea of this list!

ABSB = Army Battle Standard Bearer, the one that gives everyone within 12" a re-roll on psychology. Now what I don't know is if because he's on the eagle that it's 18" for the way I built him.

Uuhh completely new to woodies but can't the lord go in the wild riders? I kinda built him with the intention of puting him in that unit. (wanted to find the points for the -1d6 flee on them too but that's 50 more points and I'm already over)

I couldn't find anything that would disallow the Noble from having the magic bow as I didn't take a magic banner but you could be right, I don't know. I'm a VC player and there's nothing that stops my ABSB Vamp from taking a GW or anything of the sort.

The issue I had with the treeman is that he is next to impossible to hide now, forests don't block line of sight. So he becomes a great big almost 300 pt target.

I'd like to see how eternal guard do in this edition. I can picture a monster 40 man unit with a lord fighting in 4 ranks. The whole problem though is it needs to take the charge and non of the elvish armies are good at the long term fight.

Oh and whats the mission state? I haven't seen that one I've only played 1 game of 8th and that was a straight slug fest with the new rules.

damnit RiTides you just make me want to read the main rules right now. I agree that the BSB on an eagle is a good idea, I am honestly thinking of using it now.

I allways laugh when people bring up breaking point. In tournaments I just allways write down the opponent gets a massacre and then play a normal game for fun. Banners just don't fit into the wood elves army very well, why fight it!

Baneon wrote:Uuhh completely new to woodies but can't the lord go in the wild riders? I kinda built him with the intention of puting him in that unit. (wanted to find the points for the -1d6 flee on them too but that's 50 more points and I'm already over)

I couldn't find anything that would disallow the Noble from having the magic bow as I didn't take a magic banner but you could be right, I don't know. I'm a VC player and there's nothing that stops my ABSB Vamp from taking a GW or anything of the sort.

The issue I had with the treeman is that he is next to impossible to hide now, forests don't block line of sight. So he becomes a great big almost 300 pt target.

I'd like to see how eternal guard do in this edition. I can picture a monster 40 man unit with a lord fighting in 4 ranks. The whole problem though is it needs to take the charge and non of the elvish armies are good at the long term fight.

Oh and whats the mission state? I haven't seen that one I've only played 1 game of 8th and that was a straight slug fest with the new rules.

Totally didn't notice the wild riders in your list!
Also like I said it as far as the army book is concerned you can take the Bow of Loren on you BSB, unless the main rulebook prohibits it (which I don't get for a couple more days).
I have been toying with adding a unit of eternal guard. They don't really need to get charged it just adds a few attacks. It is just hard to justify them when they are the same points a S4 T4 A2 I6 model.

I have found the big target thing of a treeman not an issue. Your treekin are a great big T5 390 point target, much easier to do wounds to. With the treemans armour save ward save and T6 it takes a lot of luck to get rid of him early. Infact it is the T6 that saves him most of the time. And S6 thunderstomp is just awesome.

Yeah I honestly don't know where I'd add banners in. I guess I could put 2 in the Glade Guard units if I needed to but it's potentially giving points away and doesn't seem...right? I mean I have one in the Wild Riders and the Eagle.

Funny how that was just a random hey lets just put him on an eagle thought and everyone seems to like it

What about putting the highborn on a regular ol' horse? It would slice out some points and give him the look out sir from the wild riders. Maybe the treekin too? (Not sure on the rules for that)


Late post. I assume great stag (monstrous mount?) doesn't lose look out sir from regular sized steeds as per new rules?

I think the great stag does lose "look out sir!" (unless they say otherwise in the errata) since it's on a different size base from the wildriders.

I didn't see them in the list, either! In that case, you don't auto-lose breakpoint- you have 4 (2 for general, 1 for BSB, 1 for wildrider standard) and your breaking point is 3 (1 for each 1000 points, rounding up). So if you lose one, you would lose.

The noble can join the wildriders, I didn't see them. That actually looks like a cool unit, imho, although if they lose one model they're no longer breaking ranks! (the stag takes up the space of 2 models in the front)

The eagle is awesome for the cool factor and makes him mobile, a good thing for a BSB in a wood elf list! He only gets 12" range, though- you only get the 18" bonus if you're a large target.

The option to include the Treeman could look something like this:

Wood Elf Highborn
--Wild Rider, Great Stag, Twilight Spear, Oaken Armor
Spellsinger
--Dispel Scroll, Glamorweave, Unicorn
Wood Elf Nobel
--ABSB, Great Eagle, Bow of Loren

Wild Riders x8 w/ FC

6 x Treekin

20x Glade Guard w/ Musc
20 x Glade Guard w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc
5 x Glade Riders w/ Musc

Treeman

The wild riders can go 6 wide with this configuration and keep the 2nd rank of attacks or stay at 5 wide and have 2 "ablative" wounds to take off and still break ranks. The only downfall I see here is I really have only one rock unit with the Kin for those big units. If something goes wrong I could be in a world of hurt.

I see you put the mage on a unicorn. Is that also in the wild rider unit? I'm curious because your 6 wide comment has me confused. 8 wild riders + great stag guy is basically a 10 model unit, but if you added the mage you have to be 7 wide. the 3 command and the stag + unicorn being essentially 4 wide. I'm not sure I like the mage on the unicorn in this list it just doesn't seem to fit in with everything else.

You could drop the mage from the unicorn and drop the glamourweave points and maybe 1 unit of glade riders and get a unit of dryads instead. would help at a bit more punch to not having the second treekin unit. Either that or go with a couple more wild riders. Or possibly even 2 10man glade rider units instead of the 5man ones you have now (that is my new preffered style).

And trust me the Treeman is a great rock unit for "those big units". He hits most things on 3s and wounds on 2s, + d6 s6 impact hits. Averaging ... 6 or 7 (can't think of the full math write now) kills a turn. Not to mention you are stubborn and hard to wound. My last couple of games I have actually used him to clog the center of the table against a fat horde unit just sitting there for 3 turns until they no longer have enough rank bonus to win combat. (I know its not technically allways a good idea it just happened to be perfect for those few games).

What's the idea behind the unicorn spellsinger? Seems like it would make an easy target by itself, unless you plan to put it in the wild riders or treekin i'd say ditch the mount and just stick it in a glade guard unit.

If you were looking for another steady unit some eternal guard might answer. Maybe take out a unit of glade riders and cut 10 glade guard out of one unit and you could get a decent block of eternal guard. Although i don't know if they'd be less useful without a hero.

Even though you're trying to avoid skirmishers, some dryads would probably be pretty steady too. Striking first most of the time with s4 and t4 is nothing to sniff at. Even without ranks and a banner. I think someone mentioned them earlier.

He'd still get a 4+ look out sir for joining the unit, which is obviously a lot riskier than the 2+.

Put banners in the 20 man glade guard. Look at it this way, you start 2x10, but if a lone ogre bull slips by or if 3 empire knights slip by. You can use the musician to do a swift-reform. Reform to 5x4 in the remaining moves phase, pass a leadership test, fire 16 bow shots with no penalty for moving and at strength 4. You can still stand and shoot with 10 shots with this formation and you'll have +4 CR. Even better its pretty likely that if it was just a little thing, you'll be stubborn even if you lose.

Of course you should still flee if something nasty gets to them, but just think of those 20 man units as really bad block infantry in a pinch, it gives you a justification to put a standard in the unit and now you have a game in 'blood and glory' missions.

They only cough up 25 VP now anyway.

So what the concensus is saying is that this is the better build out:

Highborn
--Wild Rider Kindred, Spear of Twilight, Oaken Armor, Great stag
Spellsinger
--Divination Orb
Noble
--ABSB, Great Eagle, Bow of Loren

8 x Wild Riders w/ FC
6 x Treekin

15 x Dryads w/ Branch Nymph
20 x Glade Guard w/ Standard, Musc
20 x Glade Guard w/ Standard, Musc
5 x Glade Riders
5 x Glade Riders

Treeman

Now I wanted to do a winter theme as we don't see too many of those at the GB Battle Bunker but by fluff the dryads, treekin and treeman should be hibernating. Still might do it but I'm not sure. I switched out the scroll for the orb because the orb gets to be used multiple times vs. the scrolls only one use. I'm still torn about making the Glade Riders into 1 10 man unit or keeping them seperate. Mounted archers still fire in 2 ranks? What would be the benefits to losing a drop vs. having another 10 model cavalry unit?

I think this current list has a lot of potential. On paper 8th edition looks like its all going to be regiment based, and that cavalry was out of luck. But I'm now approaching 10 games in 8th edition, and as I was just tortured by a shadow warrior/elyrion reaver high elf list against my empire, I know differently.

I would keep them split. Its tempting to want to make the bigger unit and possibly charge with them, but you can still charge with both, and there are PLENTY of spells that can cause more than 5 strength 4-6 wounds. You don't want people being able to overkill your fast cav like that. There is just more feigned retreat possibilities with two over one.

A couple questions... No musician for the glade riders? Those guys are going to be fleeing more than they are moving normally. The +1 leadership might actually come in to play. Going from 8 to 9 isn't that big of a boost mathematically, but I like having that confidence.

15 dryads might not be the right size. You just want to make sure you don't lose any attacks. 8x2 would lose attacks against 100mm wide frontages. If you ran 12 you'd be guaranteed to maximize your attacks against 100mm and 125mm frontages.

I can't wait to hear how the mobile BSB goes. I have high hopes

I think for your list keeping the 2 glade rider units seperate is probably better. The wild riders will be your agressive fast cav, this way you can force your opponent to make leadership tests to march for most of his army straight away, as well as taking out more warmachines earlier.
I agree that you only really need 12 dryads but if you can't find anything else to drop 36 points into then there isn't a downside to have 3 more.

I completely missed that I had already included Muscians in the Glade Riders thanks for pointing that out! I would have forgotten the +1 Ld on rallies after the flee reaction and I had the same thoughts as you did.

Hmmm not sure where I'd stick 36 points; I could always give the Highborn a Str potion and the wild riders the +1 movement banner or MR(1) banner.

mr(1) banner would give them a 4+ ward vs spells (talismanic tatoos = 5+ ward vs spells). The +1 movement banner isn't really that good since you will be charging almost straight away and you allready charge 9 + 2d6" (yes I know its the best 2 of 3) adding 1" to that isn't worth the points. But with all that said 3 spare dryads is still a fine choice.