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Ok, tournament list for this saturday (the tenth)
2000 points, legal rogue trader armies, no paint requirement, but fully painted armies will get extra points (used for tiebreakers)
Things to be known for this list:
* I don't have any additional raiders, or i would have tweaked this list just slightly for one more raider squad instead of the footsloggers.
* Frequently (like, one scenario a tournament) our organiser makes an objective mission where elites can score as well.


~~~HQ~~~
Archon
*Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Animus Vitae, Trophy Racks
4 Incubi
Drazhar
Raider
*Night Shields, Horrorfex

Dracite
*Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Combat Drugs, Trophy Racks

~~~Elites~~~
7 Wyches
*Wych Weapons, Plasma Grenades
Upgrade to Succubus
*Goblet of Spite, Agoniser
Raider
*Night Shields, Horrorfex

10 Mandrakes

~~~Troops~~~
10 Warriors
*2 Dark Lances

10 Warriors
*2 Dark Lances

10 Warriors
*2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blades, Terrorfex

10 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Xenospasm
Raider
*Night Shields

9 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Terrorfex
Raider
*Night Shields

~~~Heavy Support~~~
Ravager
*Night Shields, 3 Disintegrators

Ravager
*Night Shields, 3 Disintegrators

Ravager
*Night Shields, 3 Dark Lances


Now i understand that (from what i've seen, at least) this site has like, no dark eldar players, so feel free to ask if you don't know what any of the wargear is >.> but this is a list i'm comfoortable with, familiar with, and prepared to win with. Minor changes and critiques can and probably will be made, so feel free to make any suggestions you want!

I don't feel like this list has enough Dark Lances to win games, generally if Dark Eldar gives up Dark Lances it is to add Wyches, and this list only has a few of those.

Archon
*Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Animus Vitae, Trophy Racks
4 Incubi
Drazhar
Raider
*Night Shields, Horrorfex

Drazhar is a ton of points, points that you could buy a few more incubi or more troops with. The lords equipment sounds good on paper, but the punisher and vitae really shine much better on a jetbike than on foot, i suggest saving some points and just giving him an agonizer, combat drugs and shadow field. Playtesting (and Thor) showed me that unless he is swooping down on a bike to hit people with his club the agonizer kills just as much, and more if you fight monsterous creatures.

Upgrade to Succubus
*Goblet of Spite, Agoniser

goblet of spite kills wyches more than it helps them, that goblet basically negates the wyche weapon rule and allows marines to hit on you a 3+, wyche means (see what I did there? ) that more wyches are going to die in a combat with the most common troop out there.

10 Warriors
*2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blades, Terrorfex

10 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Xenospasm
Raider
*Night Shields

9 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Terrorfex
Raider
*Night Shields

I don't understand why you have sybarites, or why those sybarites are wielding anything that is not an agonizer, if warriors are in combat with anything but ratlings they are dying, trust me. Terrorfex is way to expensive to have thrown in with troops that are seen as expendable in a Dark Eldar army.

Just my thoughts.

List looks ok, but if elites can capture objectives in this tourny, why not load up on wyches in raiders? I could see if you don't have the models, but that would be awesome.

Also those Mandrakes would be great at taking the objective, or at least clearing it out before other units can claim it.

On as side note, I like the idea of the Archon on Raider, I know it's not as good as when on bike, but a nice change from the norm, or can I say that with the rare nature of dark eldar these days?

I find that the I almost never get to use the Animus vitae. So many armies are space marine with ATSKNF or fearless - you are unable to run them down and capture prisoners.

I like using the archon out of a raider but I keep him by himself. This allows me to put him with a raider squad and assault 27-33 inches. This is perfect when your going after Long Fang squads (split fire is death to DE.)
If you have time, playtest running the retinue with a dracon and keeping the archon solo.

I love 3 ravagers but since you have so many foot troops a Talos might do you well if you have the model. It gives you some beef to put in the middle of all your warriors.

the reaver lord is actually a horrid choice, i've tried it in tournaments, it always dies extraordinarily quickly, and is super expensive to get the squad he can be with anywhere near as effective as a 5 man incubi squad. Reavers in general are horrible.

Goblet of Spite also benefits from the rule that came out a while ago stating that unless wargear specifically states that it benefits enemy models, it doesnt. So no, it doesn't give enemies a 3+ to hit as well, so it's perfectly valid to use.

Drazhar always makes back his points and more- he's better than an incubi master with combat drugs which is almost as many points, and is always worth it in the assaults

I would never give the lord with retinue an agoniser, as they aren't assaulting MCs. They're the ones that take on command squads, large blocks, and terminators. why use an agoniser for that when a punisher wounds terminatorso n the same 4+ but also wounds GeQ's on 3+? The MC takers are the ones WITH an invuln save and THAT squad has the agonisers. Namely, wyches and dracite. I typically fight at least one (out of three) games against a GeQ army, sometimes two or all three, and that's when the punisher makes up the 4 point difference for the agoniser (Agoniser/pistol = 21, punisher/tormentorhelm=25. not too much to complain about) And this makes the animus vitae really worth it, because typically, this squad either wipes out the enemy or causes them to flee by the end of the second round of combat, which makes me S5 on the lord (now beating the agoniser sufficiently) and much more effective against anything else i care to charge

Terrorfexes are completely worth it, as are the 11 point sybarite/poisoned blade option. When you're assaulted by anything other than other eldar, slaanesh, or some tyranids, you're hitting first, and a chance to get extra wounds to kill off one or two more can mean the difference in cimbat resolution, and has for me many times. in regard to the terrorfexes, have you ever pinned a terminator squad for 3 turns in a row? it's completely worth it just for the value of seeing your enemies face. that combined with low squad ammount elite armies (MeQ's) You can have with this list up to 5 squads pinned at a time. that could potentially be an entire infantry portion of an army, and keeps the rest of me alive longer (not to mention they lose the beneift if i have to assault into cover, so i dont have to buy plasma grenades.

The sybarites don't have agonisers because the PB is just insurance, the squads shouldn't actually be getting into melee. The 9 man squad is the only one which could possibly be getting there, because it gets out for the 10 man footslogger to make a super gunboat..

This is all stuff i've learned in past tournaments, whether through good or bad experiences

Edit: The problem i have with talos is that they die so fast without either cover from other footsloggers (best choice for this is grotesques) or having other talos with them. And 3 talos is not nearly as good, imo, as 3 ravagers geared out this way

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:the reaver lord is actually a horrid choice, i've tried it in tournaments, it always dies extraordinarily quickly, and is super expensive to get the squad he can be with anywhere near as effective as a 5 man incubi squad. Reavers in general are horrible.

Slap a reaver lord with 3 bikes w/ 2 blasters. Turbo boost them up turn 1, break off the lord turn 2, and he wrecks face. Then the blaster reavers go pop tanks. It's not such a terrible squad.

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Goblet of Spite also benefits from the rule that came out a while ago stating that unless wargear specifically states that it benefits enemy models, it doesnt. So no, it doesn't give enemies a 3+ to hit as well, so it's perfectly valid to use.

This isn't exactly set in stone. The goblet of spite rule specifically says "any unit in base to base," perhaps overriding the rulebook FAQ. For argument on this matter, look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/235584.page#651737

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Drazhar always makes back his points and more- he's better than an incubi master with combat drugs which is almost as many points, and is always worth it in the assaults

The squad with Drazhar + Archon + Incubi is massively expensive, and, frankly, overkill. And you've also put most of your assault threat into one nice little package for your opponent to shoot at.

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote:Terrorfexes are completely worth it, as are the 11 point sybarite/poisoned blade option. When you're assaulted by anything other than other eldar, slaanesh, or some tyranids, you're hitting first, and a chance to get extra wounds to kill off one or two more can mean the difference in cimbat resolution, and has for me many times. in regard to the terrorfexes, have you ever pinned a terminator squad for 3 turns in a row? it's completely worth it just for the value of seeing your enemies face. that combined with low squad ammount elite armies (MeQ's) You can have with this list up to 5 squads pinned at a time. that could potentially be an entire infantry portion of an army, and keeps the rest of me alive longer (not to mention they lose the beneift if i have to assault into cover, so i dont have to buy plasma grenades.

For any of the squads in a Raider, the Horrorfex is cheaper and has a longer range. For the foot squads, anything that has made it far enough to assault them is probably a dedicated CC squad. Which means that the warriors are doomed either way.

Good luck in the tournament!

afireinside13t wrote:Slap a reaver lord with 3 bikes w/ 2 blasters. Turbo boost them up turn 1, break off the lord turn 2, and he wrecks face. Then the blaster reavers go pop tanks. It's not such a terrible squad.

Personally, whenever i've tried this, bad rolls for me / good rolls for my opponent squishes most / all the squad, even if hiding them behind cover, and my rolls are bad enough that even with the 5 man retinue (which is minimum size, athough yes, does take drazhar) i don't always kill everyone. and i try not to, i don't want to annihilate the entire squad in the first round of combat

afireinside13t wrote:This isn't exactly set in stone. The goblet of spite rule specifically says "any unit in base to base," perhaps overriding the rulebook FAQ. For argument on this matter, look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/235584.page#651737

Sorry, I should have clarified. My LGS ruled it as only affecting friendly models for games held there- so i take it always

afireinside13t wrote:The squad with Drazhar + Archon + Incubi is massively expensive, and, frankly, overkill. And you've also put most of your assault threat into one nice little package for your opponent to shoot at.

As mentioned above, yea my horrid rolling frequently makes even this squad not enough, but also i don't mind an incubi or two falling. The reason why i use extra incubi and no warriors in this retinue is because If they DON'T die i can attack bigger targets, if they DO die i can attack smaller or different targets and not destroy them in one turn, yet the incubi are resilient enough that even if i attack an assault squad, i'm much less likely to lose members. Just know that i used to run full 9 man retinues, and learned quickly that THAT was a nono

afireinside13t wrote:For any of the squads in a Raider, the Horrorfex is cheaper and has a longer range. For the foot squads, anything that has made it far enough to assault them is probably a dedicated CC squad. Which means that the warriors are doomed either way.

As someone else pointed out, this list is kinda short on Dark lances, and i agree. that's why the raider warriors (who have to be within 12" to shoot at a target with anything other than a SC) have the upgrade on the sybarite, they'll still be in range to shoot, and the DL on the raider can shoot at a tank. Being able to rapid fire, shoot SC and Blaster, THEN pin a target is a beautiful thing, plus getting the extra DL shot. and even if a squad IS doomed, wouldn't it be better for 11 points to take out an additional model or two (which is most likely going to be more than 11 points)? That's how i see it, anyway. The agoniser is only just about as effective against anyone with a 4+ save, and against anyone with an invuln (Daemons, tsons, MoT, etc) it's not even better. yes, against MeQ or terminators it's superior, but then, this is only some protection to take out one of that assault squad that just charged me. id rather have that cheap insurance than not. (just the other day 3 assault marines charged the remaining model of a DL squad, his one attack hit and killed, i wish it had been a sybarite /w PB )

Good luck in the tournament!

Thanks! I hope i don't come across as not accepting advice, it's just that with these particular suggestions, I have reasons why I don't do so, and so try to explain them

It looks like a good list, it sucks you dont have another raider as that would be nice. I might personally replace the master of blades for 3 more incubi and an extra upgrade somewhere..

It would be nice to see a battle report from your tournie! =)

Kabal of Night's Wish wrote: ~~~HQ~~~
Archon
*Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field, Animus Vitae, Trophy Racks
4 Incubi
Drazhar
Raider
*Night Shields, Horrorfex

No grenades? Other then that I like the build here, it's a little dangerously compact at 2000, but ought to have the impact to deal with the sort of units you'll be facing. Always good to see Horrorfexes on Raiders, not enough people use them.

Dracite
*Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Combat Drugs, Trophy Racks

I'm guessing this is going in the 9 man Raider squad? If so, I like it, if not then I have to question the wisdom of confining all of your assault options to 2 Raiders. Personally I think the trophy rack is meaningless since you should be seperating from the Warriors to go assault things they shouldn't so I don't really feel the investment is worth it, and could probably be better spent even just getting another H.Fex or something. Meh, at 2000 there's usually a lot of excess points to spread around that aren't really that useful to us, so who am I to mutter at that - just a thought.

~~~Elites~~~
7 Wyches
*Wych Weapons, Plasma Grenades
Upgrade to Succubus
*Goblet of Spite, Agoniser
Raider
*Night Shields, Horrorfex

Good number of Wyches at 2000. I *think* there was actually just a FAQ released specifically about the Goblet and how it doesn't help enemy models, but I'd need to go searching for it - in any case with your store policy it's all win for you. I think it's rough to have only 2 assault boats at 2000 as that seems *very* easy for an opponent with two braincells to rub together to manage to halt your assault dead. If you have the Wych models I'd recommend dumping the Mandrakes and turning another Warrior squad to footsloggers in order to have more Wyches.

10 Mandrakes

Meh. At least on the 'elites can claim objectives' game they'll be okay, as long as objectives are around the mid board. Frankly I think you're tossing away points here unless your play environment has a lot of easily spooked players. I'd advocate dumping them in order to have more points for Warriors or to help pay for Wyches, or even to take some minimized 3 ma, 2 Blaster RJB squads which could help your anti-tank options. A bunch of close combat Eldar Pathfinders are not very dangerous in any analysis.

~~~Troops~~~
10 Warriors
*2 Dark Lances

As noted earlier, you are probably a little hurting for lances, another squad of these might be nice and could be bought for the cost of the Mandrakes easily or perhaps modifying that small assault squad I'll get to below.

10 Warriors
*2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blades, Terrorfex

10 man eldar footsloggers with assault intentions? I just don't see this squad earning its paycheck except versus drop pod armies. I'd either want some more bodies to help you push forward, or to turn them into a sniper squad to help pop tanks so your death star HQ can do the assaults it will need.

10 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Xenospasm
Raider
*Night Shields

9 Warriors
*1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
Upgrade to Sybarite
*Poisoned Blade, Terrorfex
Raider
*Night Shields

I'm a big fan of gunboats and a big fan of assaulting gunboats. I'd probably drop a few Warriors for the upgrade to an Agoniser, as that does make a nice difference in the ability of the squad to inflict damage on MEQ and doesn't weaken them much from GEQ. Poisoned blades are great, but are more of a point saving option, and you shouldn't need to save points at 2000 since you're not even maxing out your troop slots (which, for the record, I would encourage, yeah, the Mandrakes *might* be nice on the one game they can snag an objective...the Troop slot will be useful in all the games and can always grab objectives)

~~~Heavy Support~~~

I can say nothing against your Ravager choices, I approve. If you have the option and which to maintain your footslogging squad and assault Gunboats as they are then I would advocate switching one additional Ravager to a 3 lance. You have a lot of anti-horde tech in your army list and not a lot of anti-armor. If your opponents are meched up it will be hard for this list to get them to 'come out and play' as it were.

Now i understand that (from what i've seen, at least) this site has like, no dark eldar players

Actually we were in a golden time for a little while with myself, Kwi, clthomps, Ketara, Dashofpepper, afireinside, and some others plus a nice horde of new players. clthomps and Dash are sort of on hiatus/hiding right now and Kwi seems to, at best, lurk. We're still here though, and I suspect with the reboot coming there will be a nice surge again. Feel free to check out my DE Tactica (link is in my sig) and you can also look in the Batreps section for batreps from myself and Dashofpepper using DE in tournaments. Also, if your army is painted up I'd *love* it if you could do up an army gallery for your DE, the list is sort of lonely with only mine there.

thanks for the nice indepth responce (and to the others, most of them were pretty nice)

I am using every single solitary warrior model i own, or else i would have dropped the mandrakes and maybe even the dracite for more. no joke.

the thing is, there's a lot of people at my LGS, and i'm the only dark eldar player. even better, a lot of them only show up for tournaments so dont play me in friendly games. So almost none of them know the rules for mandrakes, and even with their weak S and lack of melee rules, they still do really well. ever killed a termi sorc of tzeentch on turn one? mandrakes have.

The 10 man warrior squad with 2 sc and 2 blasters is for kicking out one of the raider squads so that THEY can hoof it across the table. then i get a SUPER gunboat.

I WOULD post on the army profile, but all mof my vehicles are different schemes atm (fluffwise i say they're all stolen from different kabals >.&gt and the majority of my warriors arent painted, neither are the mandrakes, and like 4 of the 10 wyches i own. Lol

Thor665 wrote:and Kwi seems to, at best, lurk.

Haha, I do lurk and just about everywhere too - Kabal of Night's Wish is in just about every forum I lurk in but you will notice I will usually choose one forum to reply to you from instead of all of them (which gets confusing after a while).

Once you have found a home I will interact with you there more.

As for tournaments, my lists are usually unorthodox and thus stay away from posting my lists - a good example was a GT I played in April, I played a Coven list that deep strikes, has 6 Haemonculi with drugs, Grotesques and 3 Talos at 2000 points (definitely not for the inexperienced or faint of heart).

Good luck and happy hunting!

well my batreps are up on 40k online.. it was a bad day opponents wise, two kids (like 13 and 14) and one of my best friends, who i play all the time..
I drew the first game (should have been a win because 1.) i told him in his last turn what he should do to try to get more victory points and 2.) we overlooked the fact that i killed the last sanguinary guard with dante so he really DIDN'T have a troops choice in that quarter.)

I won the second game, and i won the third. came out 4th overall with i think 18 people there. if we had tallied the extra 7 points for the win outcome of the first game, i would have come in second...

I demand linkage to the batreps!

Kwi wrote: a GT I played in April, I played a Coven list that deep strikes, has 6 Haemonculi with drugs, Grotesques and 3 Talos at 2000 points (definitely not for the inexperienced or faint of heart).

How'd that one ever turn out?

Game 1

Game 2

Game 3

There ya go, please read em in order

Discusion can continue here if you like, but ugh, playing against kids and a guy iv played against more times than i care to recount.. not the best day for opponents, aye?