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I was thinking of taking five scouts with ccw and bolt pistol, power fist on sarge and putting them in a Landspeeder Storm with multi melta or assault cannon. If I go with the melta, I can just go for tank hunting of all kinds. With the assault cannon, I would just be hunting transports. In either case, I could drop off the scoouts , and make the shots with the Storm, hopefully popping the transport, and then assault in with the scouts. Pretty much like a glass cannon probably, cause the scouts would most likely just cause some wounds and lose the assault, and I want the fist in there to assure that it happens. If they would win, Hooray, but I expect them to lose. Afterward, hopefully the storm would be able to go on and pop something else. Just a thought. Pllease, gimme some opinions!

it is a very good tactic.

it allows the coveted "First Turn Assault", something many people don't expect from marines. Eldar and DE maybe, but never marines.

3 LSS and 3 scout squads in that setup will be 450 pts(with no weapon upgrade on the speeder) so it is a very affordable choice in any game.

MM is a good upgrade for a tank hunting group.

the Speeders can go after tanks, but don't be disappointed if they fail(BS3 and all)

the scouts are good at tieing up/killing nasty enemy big guns to make way for your assault(Broadsides, Devestators.....)

DON'T go after anything with a 3+ save or better or your scouts will be in danger of dying on the turn they charge.

They get to move flat out for their scout move, don't they?

...Eldar...

Unless you're using 1A WS3 T3 5+ Sv rangers for that, we don't have turn one assaults.

I fear turn one assaults, which means I fear scouts in a storm!

Good good. Thanks for the reinforcement.

Scouts in a storm are scary, agreed. Also, a major perk of the storm is the Deep-Strikey-Jammy-thingy.
If there's a unit nearby with, say, a teleport homer, send it after that. If there's a bit of important or vulnerable ground, where a squad of termies or daemons might pop up next turn, try sending an empty storm over there. Not only will it jam incoming troops, it's also quite handy at shooting things. Might want to put it with a tank, though, otherwise it could get taken apart by bolters!

I personally never understood why people say Landspeeders are a waste. Those things are a great weapons platform. Not to mention how fast they are, AND scout moves. I also like scouts, so Id agree that your idea would cause some real damage

I like the tactic, but I can never find an extra FA slot for the storm. Between two AB squadrons and a Typhoon squadron, I usually can't justify the drop in firepower to take a Storm instead. Now if they were only a dedicated transport, that would be money.

I personally like scout bikers better for this role

1) similar cost, but more firepower. for 155 points, you get 5 scout bikers, 2x with grenade launchers, and a powerfist on sarge. that gets you 5x scouts, base speeder, and a fist.

2) better for killpoints, because you only have one unit, not two, and bikers are harder to kill because of toughness 5.

3) you can take 10 man biker squads, and combat squad, to conserve fast attack slots. Sure, it means one squad won't have a fist... but that squad can go after light infantry or vehicles with krak grenades / grenade launchers. still viable.

I'd use storms... if only they were available to scouts as dedicated transports.

Ahh see I didnt know they werent dedicated. Ok that dampens things a bit. I think Id rather have better landspeeder load outs then taking a storm.

I think I'm going to have to disagree with Grey Templar on just about every point.

First turn assault is ridiculously easy to counter, using the same techniques that are used to prevent turn 1 valk vet demolition charges. Because the scout move can't take you any closer than 12" to an enemy model, all your opponent has to do is put a bubblewrap unit on the table in a spot that will push back your scout move outside assault range of the thing you want to assault. Because you have to deploy first if you're doing this (since you can only get a turn 1 assault if you go first) he'll know exactly how to do it.

450 points will buy you 5 typhoons, which will do infinitely more damage and have way more survivability than open-topped AR10 vehicles with BS3 that have to close with the enemy.

Scouts don't need a LSstorm to tie up backfield units. They have infiltrate and a scout move that will get them there by turn 2.

But to be fair, I do agree with what GT says about how 3+ save units will tend to bounce scouts.

if you are running higher point games(1850+) then you will want Typhoons instead as they are a better use of your FA slots.

Yes, it is easy to counter, but if he isn't expecting it.... Fair enough point though.


i would say the ideal pt level for Storms and scouts is under 1500 pts, 1000 pts and less is even better. i wouldn't play them over 1000 personally as i love Typhoons so much better.



another thing to consider is to Outflank with the Scouts IN the Storm. you have the same threat range, but from the Table edge.

they are also effective Objective Grabbers.

typhoons are amazing. no matter what marine list i'm playing, I never take less than 2... they are pretty much my signature unit at my store, and i've only seen one other person ever field them around me. Don't know why, they always rock out hard for their points value.

won me a game yesterday by shooting down 2 eldar wave serpents (2 typhoons) and then firing frag missiles / heavy bolter shots into all exposed infantry for the rest of the game. They always punch WAY above their points value, something the marine codex generally has problems doing.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

...Eldar...

Unless you're using 1A WS3 T3 5+ Sv rangers for that, we don't have turn one assaults.

I fear turn one assaults, which means I fear scouts in a storm!

Look a little closer at the Striking Scorpion Exarch powers.

MekanobSamael wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

...Eldar...

Unless you're using 1A WS3 T3 5+ Sv rangers for that, we don't have turn one assaults.

I fear turn one assaults, which means I fear scouts in a storm!

Look a little closer at the Striking Scorpion Exarch powers.

Maybe I'm missing something. Infiltrate requires you to deploy more than 12" away (at best). Scorpions don't have fleet. How are they going to get a turn 1 charge?

I'm thinking a first turn charge on a bubblewrap squad could still be quite useful. For one, it might tie up enemy units stationed behind the bubblewrap or prevent shooting.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

...Eldar...

Unless you're using 1A WS3 T3 5+ Sv rangers for that, we don't have turn one assaults.

I fear turn one assaults, which means I fear scouts in a storm!

Look a little closer at the Striking Scorpion Exarch powers.

Maybe I'm missing something. Infiltrate requires you to deploy more than 12" away (at best). Scorpions don't have fleet. How are they going to get a turn 1 charge?

Kahandras , no but seriosuly. Eldar does not have a viable turn 1 assault unit.

I use a Storm with the five scouts and equip the sergeant with a combi-melta and a powerfist. It works rather nicely. If you don't think you'll be able to get an effective first turn charge the option to Outflank is really handy. Also, forcing your opponent to already be reacting to you even in their deployment is a good thing in my opinion!

Monster Rain wrote:I use a Storm with the five scouts and equip the sergeant with a combi-melta and a powerfist. It works rather nicely. If you don't think you'll be able to get an effective first turn charge the option to Outflank is really handy. Also, forcing your opponent to already be reacting to you even in their deployment is a good thing in my opinion!

Hmmm, because you make the decision to outflank during your own deployment, that means you have to decide whether you're outlanking before you know what your opponent is doing if you're going first. If you're going second, then your opponent can avoid the first turn charge by moving away or shooting down the LS.

155-165 points still seems like a lot to me for a unit that kind of depends on a gimmick. If the unit also had some good fundamentals or fulfilled some vital role that other SM units can't accomplish, maybe--but it's the kind of unit that is only useful for a few specific parts of the game and is easily killed. Personally, for those points, I'd rather have another 5 tacs in a las/plas razor, or 2 MM speeders, or 3 MM attack bikes.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I use a Storm with the five scouts and equip the sergeant with a combi-melta and a powerfist. It works rather nicely. If you don't think you'll be able to get an effective first turn charge the option to Outflank is really handy. Also, forcing your opponent to already be reacting to you even in their deployment is a good thing in my opinion!

Hmmm, because you make the decision to outflank during your own deployment, that means you have to decide whether you're outlanking before you know what your opponent is doing if you're going first. If you're going second, then your opponent can avoid the first turn charge by moving away or shooting down the LS.

155-165 points still seems like a lot to me for a unit that kind of depends on a gimmick. If the unit also had some good
fundamentals or fulfilled some vital role that other SM units can't accomplish, maybe--but it's the kind of unit that is only useful for a few specific parts of the game and is easily killed. Personally, for those points, I'd rather have another 5 tacs in a las/plas razor, or 2 MM speeders, or 3 MM attack bikes.

I'm sorry, wouldn't going second be a good indicator that you're not getting a first turn charge and you should therefore Outflank?

The Scout/Storm does have other good uses. Is there another Space Marine scoring unit that can Outflank and move Flat Out?

Monster Rain wrote:
I'm sorry, wouldn't going second be a good indicator that you're not getting a first turn charge and you should therefore Outflank?

Right, so

(1) If you're going second, then you're not going to get a first turn charge.

(2) When you're going first and decide to outflank, you're not going to get a first turn charge and

(3) when you're going first and decide to deploy, your opponent can throw out a sacrificial bubble-wrap unit in a spot that will prevent you from getting a first turn charge on anything important, or can deploy all in reserve, thus preventing you from getting a first turn charge.

So in all these possible cases, the best a unit of scouts in a storm can do in a turn 1 assault vs. a competent component is to take out a bubblewrap unit.

Thus my original argument that the idea of a first turn charge for a LS storm full of scouts is so easy to counter that I wouldn't consider it a relevant advantage, and probably also wouldn't tool a scout squad for it either.

It's a 'fun' unit through and through, IMO.
Much like possessed and spawn.

Just because they can do good, doesn't mean they will consistantly perform...or that other people's opinions of them will change.

Lipstick on a pig people .

I just can't fathom that someone can't see the value of a fast, scoring skimmer that can Outflank. It has won me a lot of games... To each his own I guess.

Is it that hard to imagine they can invest in something else and still win?

Winning with a scoring fast outflanking skimmer takes too many conditions to be aligned to be of consistant use as I see it.

I didn't say it was the only way to win. It's not so bad that it should be dismissed out of hand as a gimmick though.

Doesn't seem like a "gimmick" to me, and it also doesn't seem like the greatest tactic ever. What I am seeing is that if my opponent has to react to me on turn one, then that should be a good thing. And, btw, I normally don't have "sacrificial" units in my list. I take units to perform tasks. I thought others did too. And in the event that I don't go first, outflanking them seems awesome. And if my opponent decides to go all reserves, then my scouts are definately not gonna boost across the field at nothing...right. In that event, they seem better because they would be free to bring the melta to bear against units with no support, and that just seem good. Also, I know that typhoons and the such are good. I didn't need advice on that. I was wondering if this tactic would be useful as a smash and grab type of thing. Thanks all for the input so far, though. Much appreciated

"Sacrificial" is a task, And it's a task that a LS Storm full of scouts would most likely be performing pretty often, since they'd usually get wiped out the turn after they take their one shot/assault.

I was thinking particularly of Tau, who can take a Kroot unit to block scout moves, or Guard, who can use any of their many cheap infantry units. I sometimes use space marine scouts this way, but they are a bit pricier.

Starting in reserve is actually often an advantage, rather than a disadvantage, for a mechanized move-and-shoot army. When you enter units from reserve in turn 2, you get an entire free shooting phase at whatever's on the board before the opponent can react, and you get to see where the enemy models are before you enter.

So that means you can either (1) give target priority to the LS Storm that's moving around and kill it before it gets to shoot (stranding the scouts out in the open) or (2) enter the table at a point outside the LS storm's effective range.

Outflanking is actually probably the best way to use a LS storm if you're going to take one IMO. Assuming that you get the table end you want, your ability to move quickly on the table, flame something, hop out and assault with krak and meltabombs is pretty good. Especially if you can catch a stationary tank in the backfield. But the odds on a single BS3 melta aren't very good.

Flavius Infernus wrote:"Sacrificial" is a task, And it's a task that a LS Storm full of scouts would most likely be performing pretty often, since they'd usually get wiped out the turn after they take their one shot/assault.

I was thinking particularly of Tau, who can take a Kroot unit to block scout moves, or Guard, who can use any of their many cheap infantry units. I sometimes use space marine scouts this way, but they are a bit pricier.

Starting in reserve is actually often an advantage, rather than a disadvantage, for a mechanized move-and-shoot army. When you enter units from reserve in turn 2, you get an entire free shooting phase at whatever's on the board before the opponent can react, and you get to see where the enemy models are before you enter.

So that means you can either (1) give target priority to the LS Storm that's moving around and kill it before it gets to shoot (stranding the scouts out in the open) or (2) enter the table at a point outside the LS storm's effective range.

Outflanking is actually probably the best way to use a LS storm if you're going to take one IMO. Assuming that you get the table end you want, your ability to move quickly on the table, flame something, hop out and assault with krak and meltabombs is pretty good. Especially if you can catch a stationary tank in the backfield. But the odds on a single BS3 melta aren't very good.

Ok, I see what you are saying. Would it be feasible, then, to use an Assault Cannon rather than the melta? That way you can mitigate the BS3 a little bit, and coming from outflanking or hopefully with you mobility getting side and rear shots. Or would you just go with the point effecient HF, and drop the scouts off with meltabombs and a fist to do the tank hunting?

The storm can't take an Assault Cannon.
The HF is great if you don't want to deal with the BS3.

If vulkan is around, then the BS 3 is less of an issue with the MM.

My codex says it can take one...35pt upgrade...and I have the updated codex