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Here is a small picture of what happened in my last game:



Basically during his turn, my opponent shot with both guardians and dire avengers into the Sister squad. Afterwards he elected to assault them with his dire avengers, but failed to finish off the squad.

On my turn I unloaded a Rhino that contained my canoness and celestian retinue as well as a priest. I also moved into position my seraphim squad that was behind terrain (bottom right black box).

I subsequently assaulted my canoness/retinue mostly to his guardians, but multi-assaulted some dire avengers as well. I then assaulted the avatar with 2 seraphims and sent the rest on the guardians.

I ended up winning this assault by 8 wounds.

Combat resolution finished off the guardians and dire avengers since they were fearless.

Now the Avatar also ended up taking 8 armor saves since he was part of the assault. My opponent had issues believing that was possible, since he was no longer in base contact with anything by then and was almost 10 inches away from the other two squads to begin with.

We ruled it in my favor since the pile-in move only happens after you've checked for morale (fearless wounds).

Was that played properly?

Yes actually. All units that are involved in the same combat are affected by the outcome. Where they are in the combat has little to do with the result of the combat.

In order to multi-assault, you have to maintain unit cohesion with each subsequent move. The assault of the Avatar and Guardians is suspect. However, it is hard to say given the drawing. Assuming you were able to get your models in B2B and maintain unit cohesion then there would be no issues. I personally would have called you on that issue since the units were almost 10" apart.

I agree that your assault move was probably not legal, but if the combat was somhow linked and the given info we hav. We have to assume that his assault move is legal.

with the cannoness/retinue assault, you needed to have answered yes to all of the following:

a) Did you end the assault move with the entire unit in coherency?
b) Did you move every model you could into base contact with the enemy (making base contact with enemy models not in b2b first, then models already in b2b)?
c) Did you move every model that could not make base contact to within 2" of a model in it's squad that's b2b?

I doubt the legality of your move, since to satisfy A you would have to leave models floating between the two fights. But this would violate C, because those floating models could have been behind the guardian fight, or the avatar fight. This would however violate A, and round and round we go.

Again, I can't tell you if it was legal based on the picture, but the above is required of you. See page 34 of the BRB for reference.

It's total bull*** and screws over a lot of army lists, but if we assume your move was legal then yes, Games Workshop has left a wide ope goatse-esque glaring hole in the retardation that is their combat resolution with regards to No Retreat lunacy. High value targets will get murdered by cleverly exploiting the rules and obliterating a bunch of tiny units at their feet with you never having to take a swing at them.

It's bull, it sucks, it makes no sense, it unfairly punishes people and gibbering idiots will undoubtedly come out of the woodwork to fling poo like down syndrome chimpanzees in an effort to defend it but it is also the rules.

SumYungGui wrote:It's total bull*** and screws over a lot of army lists, but if we assume your move was legal then yes, Games Workshop has left a wide ope goatse-esque glaring hole in the retardation that is their combat resolution with regards to No Retreat lunacy. High value targets will get murdered by cleverly exploiting the rules and obliterating a bunch of tiny units at their feet with you never having to take a swing at them.

It's bull, it sucks, it makes no sense, it unfairly punishes people and gibbering idiots will undoubtedly come out of the woodwork to fling poo like down syndrome chimpanzees in an effort to defend it but it is also the rules.

Someone is still bitter from losing their MC methinks.


It does make sense, and it is the rules. It doesn't "Unfairly" punish everyone, because you KNOW that is what's gonna happen if (say) Gants and a Fex get into CC together, so Don't do it!

Modquisition on. Mellow out people. Its just a game.

After reading the bullets on page 34, my move was illegal.

The guardians were actually far removed from the seraphims. Closest one was ~5.5 inches away when I charged so I couldnt actually get them all into close combat. I did move two to the avatar and the rest as close to the guardians as possible so I was out of coherency. Until re-reading I was under the belief that I only had to get back into coherency if I won the assault and enough seraphims survived.

However, hypothetically, could I have played this differently?

For example, one Seraphim makes it into close combat. The next seraphim is able to get within the 2 inch bubble of that seraphim, but another seraphim cannot without declaring an assault on the dire avengers (which I do not want to do at this point). As a result I move the seraphims in coherency with the second one in order to create a conga line giving me access to the avatar.

Would that have been a legal move or would I have to move them all as close to the first one, piling in a small bunch behind the second seraphim? It seems legal, albeit hard to pull based on the 5th bullet point.

When you look at the Assaulting Multiple Enemy units rule it says that you have to follow all the rules for moving your models into close combat. So, you have to move all models possible of getting into B2B into B2B contact. It also specifically says 'No holding back'. So if the models can get into B2B then they have to. Basically, what you have to do is move all the models in range to the Avatar into B2B with him. After that you could do a conga line if had enough models in your unit to bridge the gap to the guardians.

Given your drawing (assuming you did not shoot with your seraphim) the best chance at doing a multi-unit assault with the seraphim would be the dire avengers and guardians.

Synnister wrote:When you look at the Assaulting Multiple Enemy units rule it says that you have to follow all the rules for moving your models into close combat. So, you have to move all models possible of getting into B2B into B2B contact. It also specifically says 'No holding back'. So if the models can get into B2B then they have to. Basically, what you have to do is move all the models in range to the Avatar into B2B with him. After that you could do a conga line if had enough models in your unit to bridge the gap to the guardians.

Given your drawing (assuming you did not shoot with your seraphim) the best chance at doing a multi-unit assault with the seraphim would be the dire avengers and guardians.

This would be correct if you assaulted the Avatar first. But seeing as how he had just enough range to hit the guardians with only the closest model, he could then conga line back to the Avatar. VERY hard to do with such a large gap between the two units, probably won't happen again in his next 100 games.

This is more a tactics issue, BUT:
Move the closest model into the dire avengers 5.5 inches away.

Move a model that is far away enough not to be in base with the dire avengers. This model must simply be in coherency, so put him exactly 2 inches away from the first model closest to the avatar.

Move the third model by picking a model that can not get into coherency with the first. The easy way to do this is pick a model from the back rank who has to move around friendly models in front of him. This will reduce his total move, meaning he will not be able to fight in the combat. THUS, he must simply be in coherency with the 2nd model. Place the third model as close as possible to the avatar.

The 4th model can now assault the avatar, as there are 2 models bridging the 6 inch gap between the avatar and the dire avengers, and the 3rd model will provide coherency.

As a side note, if you get it just right, 1 model can bridge a gap of 6 inches between 2 enemy squads. First model assaults squad 1, and has a .9 inch base. Second model put 2 inches away, with a .9 inch base. Coherency goes out 2 inches in the other direction. Third model assaults and with his .9 inch base you have 2.7 inches of bases and 4 inches of coherency in a straight line. Thus a 6 inch gap, if JUST right, is done with 1 bridging model.

Using this tactic, with preplanned movement phase moves and fleet moves when applicable, I have bridged models from 2 squads 10+ inches away from each other.