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Ok so i wanted to create a small force of IG but didnt want to be just another platoon based infantry army so i based this list on Veterans and Penal Legion
with a Lord commissar to keep the legionaries in check
So here it is

Command Squad
Power weapon, Medi-pack, Vox-caster, Plasma gun, Kark, Carapace Armour.
=135

Lord Commissar
Power Fist, Carapace Armour, Melta-bombs.
=100

Veterans Squad 1
Power Weapon, Vox-caster, Grenade Launcher, Demolitions.
=120

Veterans Squad 2
Power Weapon, Vox-caster, Grenadiers, 3 sniper rifles, Lascannon.
=150

Penal Legion Squad 1
=80

Penal Legion Squad 2
=80

Basilisk
Enclosed Crew Compartment, Extra Armour.
=155

Total=820

Let me know what you think

Any army that has more than 48" range, (Eldar, another Guard army, etc.) will utterly destroy you. They'll pop your Medusa in the first turn and turn around and destroy either your vet squad or your CCS with a blast and you will be left with absolutely no anti-tank.

Also, your vet squads are all over the place. It's best to keep your weapon types the same from squad to squad so they can fill a role. The 2 sniper rifles and a rapid fire weapon don't make sense to me.

If you want a foot based army you're going to need some counter assault units. Ogryns, hell GK allies, (yes it's still legal,) would be something to consider. I know you're not trying to go for a platoon army, but you're literally 5 blasts from being blown off the board. Many d00ds, I say.

You spend a LOT of points on upgrades at the expense of bringing basically any weapons. For 1k points, you're bringing a medusa cannon, 1 good special weapon and a couple of powerfists.

You could out-power this list with 500 points of guardsmen, properly armed.

Cut the fat, and take more guns is my suggestion.

bforber wrote:Any army that has more than 48" range, (Eldar, another Guard army, etc.) will utterly destroy you. They'll pop your Medusa in the first turn and turn around and destroy either your vet squad or your CCS with a blast and you will be left with absolutely no anti-tank.

well i see you point so a basilisk in the medusa`s sted for the range, i was planning on using the Vet squad with sniper rifles as a supporting unit an a penal for a meat shield

bforber wrote:Also, your vet squads are all over the place. It's best to keep your weapon types the same from squad to squad so they can fill a role. The 2 sniper rifles and a rapid fire weapon don't make sense to me.

was keeping it as a support squad for the Medusa/Basilisk the plasma was for the purpose of eliminating units that pose a threat to the Ordinance as they would most likely be of the armoured variety that why there is a Plasma weapon in that squad

Ailaros wrote:You spend a LOT of points on upgrades at the expense of bringing basically any weapons. For 1k points, you're bringing a medusa cannon, 1 good special weapon and a couple of powerfists.

the main source of weapons teams are the infantry platoons which i have deliberately didnt take any

Ailaros wrote:You could out-power this list with 500 points of guardsmen, properly armed.

i would quite like to see such a list

Way Master Walt wrote:

Ailaros wrote:You spend a LOT of points on upgrades at the expense of bringing basically any weapons. For 1k points, you're bringing a medusa cannon, 1 good special weapon and a couple of powerfists.

the main source of weapons teams are the infantry platoons which i have deliberately didnt take any

So you're deliberately underpowering your list?

Way Master Walt wrote:

Ailaros wrote:You could out-power this list with 500 points of guardsmen, properly armed.

i would quite like to see such a list

CCS 4x melta, power weapon: 100

3x plasma vets, meltabombs:120
3x plasma vets, meltabombs:120

Manticore:160

500 points, and it vastly outpowers your list.

Ailaros wrote:

Way Master Walt wrote:

Ailaros wrote:You spend a LOT of points on upgrades at the expense of bringing basically any weapons. For 1k points, you're bringing a medusa cannon, 1 good special weapon and a couple of powerfists.

the main source of weapons teams are the infantry platoons which i have deliberately didnt take any

So you're deliberately underpowering your list?

no i just dont feel the need to use a platoon as a basis for my force i prefer the un common route personally


i dont think this force would be as effective as you say if i was to use a basilisk it would depend alot on who gets first turn but thats the case with many IG armies

Yes, but if this list went first, it would win. It would beat a list twice its size.

And you don't need to bring platoons, but you still need to bring guns. A vet squad with two sniper rifles and a plasma gun isn't killing much. A chimera with a vet squad with 3 plasma guns in it is.

I mean, you're spending 150 points in upgrades that won't kill anything (and are of dubious use at best besides). That's not including a lot of points spent on things that will do damage, but are still highly questionable (why straken, for example?) The end result is a very low-power list that will struggle in a lot of games.

Ailaros wrote:Yes, but if this list went first, it would win. It would beat a list twice its size.

And you don't need to bring platoons, but you still need to bring guns. A vet squad with two sniper rifles and a plasma gun isn't killing much. A chimera with a vet squad with 3 plasma guns in it is.

that unit was for support thats why it has three heavy weapons to stand and shoot

Ailaros wrote:
I mean, you're spending 150 points in upgrades that won't kill anything (and are of dubious use at best besides). That's not including a lot of points spent on things that will do damage, but are still highly questionable (why straken, for example?) The end result is a very low-power list that will struggle in a lot of games.

the command will characterfully lead from the front while the commissar and a penal legion to protect the flanks

You don't need Infantry Platoons to answer Armor and provide range. You do, however, need something to answer Armor and provide range.

Right now, this army doesn't have it. The Veteran Squads as kitted are week and the army is both immobile and lacks range. Without any means of transport your Assault-centric units like the Commissar, Penal Legion units, and Straken's squad are all slow-moving targets.

At least buy yourself some Stormtroopers with decent special weapons and try to use them to Deep Strike to disrupt enemy lines and gain enough time for your other units to close.

- Marty Lund

Ok so I'm not trying to start anything but I agree with bforber & Ailaros in that your list is EVERYWHERE and underpowered. You really don't have anything coherient with each other which means you'll loses more of your games then you're going to win.

Now I've played with a 1k and 1.5k pure veteran footslogging list up till two weeks ago. From my experience with pure veteran lists espically if you're going to be footslogging always take russes or artillery as russes will stay in the game long and are a reliable mobile LOS blocker for your veterans when you need it. Yes russes cost more but you now have a vehicle that doesn't need to seek cover from large builds/other vehicles nor does it have a miniumal range which then creates a blind spot for you, plus most russes will put out as much or even more power then their counter-part (except for the Manticore as nothing beats this beauty).

This is something that I would field for a 1k list.

HQ:
CCS w/ standard, vox, 2 plasma gun, carapace - 120pts

Troop:
X3 Veteran squad w/ grenadier, vox, 2 plasma guns, & lascannon - 450pts (150pts each)

Heavy:
X2 LRBT w/ hull lascannon - 330pts (165pts each)

Total - 765pts

This is a nice solid list to start expanding off of as all your units will have a 4+ armor save which will greatly increase your survivability(sp?) from both overheats and enemy fire (take that SM's ) plus you still have 235pts left to spend!

With veteran armies in low point games you need to make sure that EVERY shot counts thats why I also recommend voxes in games under so that you know your "bring it down" or "fire on my target" orders will get through. Also the standard in your CCS will make sure your mean are fighting to the very end and if you really want to you can add in a Lord Commissar so that way everyone is benefitting from Ld. 10 rerolls for both morale and orders.

If you don't want to field any heavy weapons for your veterans then what I would do is drop all the voxes and downgrade your lascannons to plasma gun which will give you additional 35pts so 270pts to spend which you then can take 2 vendetta guns ships for 260pts for your anti-tank hunting.

i think it shall not work,
why do you have:
Veterans Squad 2
Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Vox-caster, Grenadiers, 2 sniper rifles, Plasma Gun, Lascannon.

veterans are good but you have to choose between combat or shooting, so remove the fist, bolt pistol and snipers, it is useless, and in case of the grenadiers take the camo cloaks, then you will let them stay in cover en you can shoot on heavy infantery and tanks

maybe you can remove youre extra armour from the medusa and th points you have left form the veterans and the medusa, you can maybe buy a chimera for youre command squad because it is 25% of youre army and that is very expensive for 1000 points...

good luck with it

Ok so i made some changes to the list
and still have 180 points left over any suggestions

My personal opinion is that power fists are better that power swords for IG because anything that would assault you is usually gouin to be tough to kill with a streangth of 3

Okay, we're getting better.

Firslty, I've got to ask, why the voxes? Voxes only let you re-roll orders when they can take orders. You have one vet squad hanging back shooting sniper rifles, and the other charging forward to use demolitions, which means that you're really only ever having the chance to reroll on a single squad. Not particularly worth the points.

As well, the carapace armor on the CCS and the vets costs half the price of just taking more vets. Carapace only helps against bolters in the open, and against chainswords, but it only helps, not stops, and not that much for the points you spend.

As for the power weapons, yeah, single power weapons don't do much. Save them for power blobs.

As well, I'm still not exactly sure how the vets and HQ are playing out on the field. Is it just going to be 15 guardsmen charging out forward while only 10 dudes sit on the objectives?

In any case, this is still looking nicer then before. 180 points? I would drop the carapace and some other stuff for 250 points and throw two more basilisks in it, but that's if you want an artillery list.

I mostly play aganist IG and space marines thats why i took the Carapace

was thinking the voxs would help with the vets as move move move and bring it down

as for more Ordinance i would consider another basilisk but would prefer a LR of some kind

As for the advancing troops would be vets with demo and penal legion with the second unit of penal legion holding middle ground with the lord commissar for morale support


the second vets would hold the rear with the command squad protecting the ordinance

Sure, but you're spending 180 points just to deliver a single demo charge. Plus, with only 30 dudes charging around in the open, that's not a lot of durability in delivery, that's not a lot of power when you show up, and not a lot of staying power once you arrive.

If you're going to charge across the field with just infantry, you sort of need more like 80+ guys charging across the field in a human wave.

well was hoping to get a compact force probably use support like vendetta`s or LR should help with the staying power and should help with the showing up part to or at least to soften any resistance thats there

compact can work if you have few dudes with high survivability. As it is, you have very few dudes, and no way to make them more survivable. Perhaps if you took some chimeras or vendettas, for example, you might be able to get along with it. Otherwise, you need survivability in numbers.

ok the best thing for a 1000 point list is 40 guardsmen as fodder and then just pack in as many tanks as you can coz they're tough to bring down and most other armies won't be able to bring that much fire-Power. it's simple.

for that 180 points you can spend it to a ministorum priest from 45 points, because if you put him in the unit of penal legion and you're penal legion have rending, than you have 3 attacks each and than you will have a re-roll to hit... before you're deployment you have to roll for you're desperadoes and then you can choose in witch unit you want to join him

than 135 points left...
maybe a valkyrie with missle pods and then you have 5 points left or you can take a vendetta... they are realy good!!

1st rewrite any comments i would be glad to hear

Command Squad
Power fist, melta bombs, Vox-caster, Plasma gun, Kark, Carapace Armour.
=115

Lord Commissar
Power Fist, Carapace Armour, Melta-bombs.
=100

Veterans Squad 1
Power fist, plasma pistol, Vox-caster, x3 meltaguns, Demolitions.
=160

Veterans Squad 2
Power weapon, Vox-caster, Grenadiers, x3 plasma guns
=160

Penal Legion Squad 1
=80

Penal Legion Squad 2
=80

Vendetta
Heavy bolters
=140

Manticore
=160

every list gets just that much better.

My biggest problem is still that you're spending 160 points per 10 T3 dude squad. That means that your opponent is going to be able to mute a lot of your firepower with just a few well placed bolter barrages or flamer shots. Furthermore, it means that you're spending a lot of points for a pretty meagre amount of firepower.

As well, I'm still not seeing the vision of this army. It still looks like you're just throwing a handful of squishy guys across the field and hoping for the best.

How about this:

Command Squad
3x meltaguns, astropath
=110

Lord Commissar
Power fist, Melta-bombs.
=90

Veterans Squad 1
meltabombs, x3 meltaguns,
=105

Veterans Squad 2
x3 plasma guns
=115

Penal Legion Squad 1
=80

Penal Legion Squad 2
=80

Vendetta
=130

Vendetta
=130

Manticore
=160


In this case, you put down the manticore and the CCS on the field, and then 2 vendettas with vets and 2 penal legions stay in reserve to outflank. That way you get 3 (or 4 if you keep them close) stubborn units with lots of guns suddenly showing up and trashing your opponent.

I see you point with the vendettas + vets combo
but the command squad seem vulnerable to enemy ground troops
Would stationing 1 penal legion squad with the command squad would stop or prolong the command squad from being killed off

Allowing the Lord Commissar to arrive via outflank with other penal squad

PS are you sure that the point for the 1st veteran squad are right ?