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So heres my current list.


Ghazghull Thraka
Mad Dok Grotsnik

15 Lootas
15 Lootas
14 Kommandos-2 Burnas, Snikrot

30 Sluggas-PK/bp Nob, cybork bodies
30 Shootas-PK/bp Nob, 3 big shootas
30 Shootas-PK/bp Nob, 3 big shootas

Warbuggy-TL Rokkit
Warbuggy-TL Rokkit

So pretty simple, the Lootas are anti vehicle, Grotsnik goes with the sluggs to give them 5+/FnP, and they screen the other squads to give them cover while they advance. Ghaz goes with the Kommandos and comes in from the back with them. The Buggies stay in reserve and when they come in they mostly just use their speed to get to where I need them, not the most destructive units, but useful for contesting and blocking off LRs.

But then I had a different idea. Instead of putting Grotsnik with the sluggas, why not put him with the Kommandos? The sluggas would go back to noraml, but now the Kommandos would have 5+/FnP(I'd also have 75 spare points from that) and they would be fearless, plus have 2 T5 characters in there to take some wounds. Between Ghaz and Grotsnik, thats 12 PK atacks on the charge, plus Snikrot and the rest of the unit. Would it be worth sacrificing the toughness on my screening unit for super Kommandos?

Edit: If I did the second option I may try this.


Ghazghull
Grotsnik

15 Lootas
14 Kommandos-Snikrot,2 Burnas, Cybork bodies

30 Sluggas-PK/bp Nob
30 Shootas-PK/bp Nob, 3 big shootas
30 Shootas-PK/bp Nob, 3 big shootas

20 Stormboys-PK/bp Nob

3 Lobbas-2 ammo runts,runtherd


Which list is better?

You need more boys, period. A strong horde army works on the principal that there are just tooo damn many orks for the opponent to kill by the end of the game. Any pie plate army (IG especially but demons with soul grinders, Tau) will annihilate this army quickly. I love orks, and I love horde. In fact my next list will be a horde army. At 2,000 points I'll have at least 150 orks, if not 180 orks.

Bit by bit I LOVE Ghaz, an amazing model but he will slow down a foot slogging unit. While he work1s in the field he is best used (IMHO) in a mech army so he can get into h2h asap which is where he shines.

That said I have never fielded Ghaz... That's just my impression of him. It's hard for me to accept Ghaz when for his point value I can buy an entire mob of 30 ork boys including a nob with PK.

Adding GrotSnik to this list takes that many more points away from boys. I'm not saying the model is` particuarly bad, just having some-odd 400 points in 2 hq choices seems excessive.

I love a unit of Kommandos with Snikrot and I love Lootas. However, in this list you are trading boys for toys and when you do that with orks you lose. period. unfortunatly I would drop at least one of the two elite units for more boys.

Three boy mobs - good but needs at least 1 more

Stormboys are trading boys for toys. If I was to take anything out among the kommandos, lootas and stormboys, I would take out the stormboys for more foot sloggers.

3 lobbas - garbage. If you really want artillery take Kannon spam. Grots hit on 4+ and with how cheap Kannon are they make a mildly decent AT option.

What this list lacks horribly is anti-tank. This list will be demolished by anything with an AV value which includes IG - who will wipe this army off the table without a glance - and Mech Marines/Chaos in landraiders.

That said - the heavy support points would be better spent on Deffkoptas with RL rokkits and buzzsaws (you'll need to liquidate something else to make up the balance) but 3 DK's in their own squad will help greatly on that end.

The list I've been throwing around is:

HQ: 210

KFF Mek, PK

KFF Mek, PK

Elite: 265

15 Kommandos w/ 2 burnas and Snikrot

Troops: 1150

30 Shoota boys w/ 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 Shoota Boys w/ 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 Shoota Boys w/ 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 Slugga Bous w/ 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 Slugga Boys w/ 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

FAST: 210

Defflopta w/ Buzzsaw

Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw

Deffkopta w/ Buzzsaw

Total: 1845

Please note the only reason there are Power Klaws on the Meks is becuase I had 55 points left over. However, if I were to instead run the list at 2,000 I would do one of a few things:

a unit of 6 Lootas and a unit of 7 Lootas (My favorite option, I like smaller units of Lootas)

Fill up that HS:

3 Kannons w/ 2 ammo runts

3 Kannons w/ 2 ammo runts

3 kannons w/ 2 ammo runts

Or another unit of Boys... say..

26 Shoota boys w/ 2 BS, Nob w/ PK.

Well, Ghazghull being slow won't really be a big problem since he comes in from behind, and the idea of this list is that if you take too many boys, you have less room to spread out, plus your slower with more Orks.

So basically, my army trade numbers for a bit more survivability, and is easier to play, and can minimize template damage easily.

Here's my general plan right now.


Ghaz
Grotsnik

15 Lootas
14 Komandos-Snikrot, 2 Burnas

30 Sluggas-Nob
30 Shootas-Nob, 3 big shootas
30 Shootas-Nob, 3 big shootas
(all the Nobs have a PK, bosspole, andeavy armor)

20 Stormboys-Nob,PK,bosspole

Yeah, the ranged anti tank is low, but by bogging them down with Boys, I think this list can kill plenty of vehicles in assault.

Ghaz isn't really the best for this list, mainly because without a BW to get him up close, you're only getting the Waaagh!!! buff.

Also I'm not sure you can stick an IC without scouts in an outflanking unit.

Mad Dok is only to be used for the cyborking of scoring units. Also Nobs in 30 strong mobs won't need eavy armour or Bosspoles.
If you've lost 20 out of 30 boyz than the unit's probably better off not killing another member just to reroll Ld, which may actually be at 9.

I don't remember if they ever errata'd the fact that losing another boy means their squad shrinks and Mob Rule means that they have an Ld equal to numbers, which has just decreased for a reroll of an Ld test. Probably not an issue but regardless of that, BPs have no use when you lose that many of a unit.

Stormboys aren't the best for fast mover assaults, try bikes with the better save, better guns, 2 wounds and T4(5).

Snikkyd wrote:
So basically, my army trade numbers for a bit more survivability, and is easier to play, and can minimize template damage easily.

I'm not sure how reducing numbers increases survivability. Not sure how many games you've played with Orks but in general numbers = survivability. Sure, a larger number of Orks will have to be compacted /some/, especially if the deployment is table corners but there are other deployments which allow you to use half a table! But in the end, with only 90 boys and none of them with cover saves it means less shots to kill off your scoring units. I encourage you to give this 2000 point list a shot and see how quickly your 3 mobs die to everything. you don't only have to worry about pie plates but also lead in the air such as heavy bolters, autocannons. With more boys to die in the front lines your survivability is that much more. Also, with a screen of shootas in front and your sluggas in back the sluggas will get cover saves from firing through units.

You stll have no AT in this list and for that alone you will lose at 2000 points.

Alright, try this.

Ghaz
Grotsnik

15 Lootas
15 Lootas
14 Kommandos-Snikrot, 2 Burnas

30 Sluggas-Nob,PK,bosspole,cybork bodies
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,bosspole,3 big shootas
30 Shootas-Nob,PK,bosspole,3 big shootas

Warbuggy-TL rokkit
Warbuggy-TL rokkit

So, Ghazghull's slowness won't be a huge issue because he's coming in with the kommandos. I posted a whole thread asking if this was legal, and the overwhelming concensus was that it is. INAT also says it is IIRC.

Mad Dok gives the sluggas 5+/FnP, so they're very tough, and I still have 90 Boys. If I took any more I'd start to run out of room and my Orks would be closer together to fit, and more suceptible to templates.

The Buggies are in reserve as well btw.


You do realize that its the sluggas screening the shootas, and not the other way around? So I have 30 boys with 5++/FnP (effectively 3+), and 60 with 4+ cover. I doubt those will be that easy to kill very quickly.

Looks better! My only critique is instead of warbuggy's take deffkoptas. They're more maneuverable and can more easily swing around to crack AV10 back armor with TL rokkits.

I like your list volts but imo you should only take 2 or 3 squads of 30 and a few squads of 20 and even though i know im going to get stabbed in the face by everyone on dakka for saying this, imo never take shootas on foot. sure they can kill some off before assault, but a hoard of orks get thier power from waaaghing on the first or second turn, wich in most cases requires you to run. its better to, in my experience anyway, to take some squads of 20 without nobs and put them in front to take some hits, run, waaagh, tie up your opponent's units in melee and then next turn your squads of twenty should be just about wiped out (if your playing meqs) but beacuse your groups of 30 ran last turn you should be able to get them into assault and finish the job. with shoota boyz you couldn't do that beacuse you wouldnt be in range beacuse in stead of running you would be shooting. its not necessarely a bad thing, i just think that orks belong in melee and by taking shootas you are wasting a waaagh!

For anti tank in a hoard, i personally like to take deffkoptas, two big meks with kffs, and stick 2 or 3 dreads with 2 dccws in there. this actually works really well.

Also, for some advice that no one has given, take some nobz!!! boyz are not as durable as people think they are and nobz a more vulnerable than what most people like, so take some nobz, stick them behind some fodder (group of 20 boyz) and use them to their full potential.

zane2131 wrote:I like your list volts but imo you should only take 2 or 3 squads of 30 and a few squads of 20 and even though i know im going to get stabbed in the face by everyone on dakka for saying this, imo never take shootas on foot. sure they can kill some off before assault, but a hoard of orks get thier power from waaaghing on the first or second turn, wich in most cases requires you to run. its better to, in my experience anyway, to take some squads of 20 without nobs and put them in front to take some hits, run, waaagh, tie up your opponent's units in melee and then next turn your squads of twenty should be just about wiped out (if your playing meqs) but beacuse your groups of 30 ran last turn you should be able to get them into assault and finish the job. with shoota boyz you couldn't do that beacuse you wouldnt be in range beacuse in stead of running you would be shooting. its not necessarely a bad thing, i just think that orks belong in melee and by taking shootas you are wasting a waaagh!

For anti tank in a hoard, i personally like to take deffkoptas, two big meks with kffs, and stick 2 or 3 dreads with 2 dccws in there. this actually works really well.

Also, for some advice that no one has given, take some nobz!!! boyz are not as durable as people think they are and nobz a more vulnerable than what most people like, so take some nobz, stick them behind some fodder (group of 20 boyz) and use them to their full potential.

He's right about deffkoptas, they are better than buggies if you put buzzsaws on the koptas. Everything else is wrong.

2000 Volts wrote:Looks better! My only critique is instead of warbuggy's take deffkoptas. They're more maneuverable and can more easily swing around to crack AV10 back armor with TL rokkits.

Yeah, I thought about doing that and now I'm sure I will.

I could have one suicide Koptas instead of the Warbuggies, not much but it ay take out something. Or it could outflank.

Claypool wrote:

zane2131 wrote:I like your list volts but imo you should only take 2 or 3 squads of 30 and a few squads of 20 and even though i know im going to get stabbed in the face by everyone on dakka for saying this, imo never take shootas on foot. sure they can kill some off before assault, but a hoard of orks get thier power from waaaghing on the first or second turn, wich in most cases requires you to run. its better to, in my experience anyway, to take some squads of 20 without nobs and put them in front to take some hits, run, waaagh, tie up your opponent's units in melee and then next turn your squads of twenty should be just about wiped out (if your playing meqs) but beacuse your groups of 30 ran last turn you should be able to get them into assault and finish the job. with shoota boyz you couldn't do that beacuse you wouldnt be in range beacuse in stead of running you would be shooting. its not necessarely a bad thing, i just think that orks belong in melee and by taking shootas you are wasting a waaagh!

For anti tank in a hoard, i personally like to take deffkoptas, two big meks with kffs, and stick 2 or 3 dreads with 2 dccws in there. this actually works really well.

Also, for some advice that no one has given, take some nobz!!! boyz are not as durable as people think they are and nobz a more vulnerable than what most people like, so take some nobz, stick them behind some fodder (group of 20 boyz) and use them to their full potential.

He's right about deffkoptas, they are better than buggies if you put buzzsaws on the koptas. Everything else is wrong.

See, told you everyone would disagree lol, but whatever, in my experience it has all worked better for me, but its up to you.

And in the end that's what all good lists come down to - personal preference and the way the dice roll. In the end it's all preference, and what is fun for you. The reason we play orks is becuase Orks are fun. you need to do what you find more fun. I personally find the idea of an intimidating wave of orks very very fun!