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HQ
1 warboss w/ mega armor, tl shoota and PK-100pts
Old Zogwort-145pts
elites
15xLootas (with 1 mek to repair the wagon) -225pts
troops
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK, 2 rokkits-175pt
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK, 2 rokkits-175pt
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK, 2 rokkits-175pt
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK, 2 rokkits-175pt
heavy support
battlewagon w/ killkannon, hard case (more for fire support than transport)-165pts
Deff Dread w/ 2 dread CCs and a KMB and skorcha-95pts
total-1430 pts. any ideas for last 70 points? anything it needs or shouldnt have? c&c please

Warboss w/ Mega Armor and no transport is a very bad idea.

Zogwort is fun but needs to be in a 30 strong shoota mob for him to work.

Never "upgrade" a Loota to a Mek, never.

Shoota Boyz go on foot and you want max squad size, big shootas instead of rokkits, and the nob needs a bosspole

Killkannons aren't that great and work best in pairs.

Deff Dread isn't that effective, stick with either Skorchas or DCCW's for upgrades. BS2 ruins the KMB.

Drop the dread and get another killkannon wagon

First of all, Claypool, he can't fit 15 lootas into a KillKannon-wagon.

Second,Why sluggas boyz with Rokkits?! No transport and no shootaz makes them quite breakable as they really need the 30 size to survive on foot long enough to actually assault let alone earn the cost back.

Third, Old Zogwort. Not the best character, not really too bad, but without an invulnerable save or a decent armour save, pray you can get off 2, 3, 6, or Zogwort's curse every turn as you'll see that he'll rarely survive CC unless he gets a 1,2 or 3 while melee... even then thats not too good as ICs can be targeted separately.

Hmmm... i put the rokkits on because i'd have serious troubles with land raiders and things like that otherwise.... and i could maybe drop the dread and do some point-cutting to put together a squad of 10 nobz and mebbe a painboy to go with my warboss in the battlewagon... having the equivalent of a slightly worse 4+invulnerable save on him as well as the 2+ isnt terrible... i can knock off the mek for pure lootas...

In a little while i'll post an updated army list to see what you guys think.


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thanks.... How about if I made a squad of some nobbies to go with the warboss in the Battlewagon, so then maybe i could give them feel no pain? I would have to drop a squad of boyz and the dread to do that... i can keep the lootas lootas and i had the rokkits so that i had some more tank stop power... land raiders and things like that would give me big problems otherwise...


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HQ
1 warboss w/ mega armor, tl shoota and PK-100pts
Old Zogwort-145pts
elites
15xLootas -225pts
troops
10xNobz w/Painboy, 2xPK, 6x Big Choppa, WAAAGH banna- 325pts
Troops
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK and bosspole, 2 rokkits-180pt
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK and bosspole, 2 rokkits-180pt
20xsluggachoppa boyz, nob w/ PK and bosspole, 2 rokkits-180pt
heavy support
battlewagon w/ killkannon, hard case-165pts
wagon takes the nobbies and warboss
lootas stay back and lay down cover fire
boyz mobz steadily advance while the killkannon and lootas keep busy enemies
when close, the nobz and warboss get out and start tearin through stuff.

Hmmm... i put the rokkits on because i'd have serious troubles with land raiders and things like that otherwise....

Deffrolla for AV14!
Lootas, khans, buggies and koptas for the rest

haha deff rollas are good but thats not really the kind of battlewagon im looking for... basically im just gonna ferry forward the nobz while shooting the killkannnon every turn.... zogworts s10 36" melta blast rocks all tanks tho... i mean 10+2d6 within 18".... automatically hitting...

1) you don't auto-hit on that psychic ability ( 90% sure)
2) thats completly random you have a similiar chance of detonating and killing your own guys! he is not reliable enought to take down AV14


3) you need deffrollas on your bw's only thing that will TOUCH AV14 right now is the sloggin Mega armour boss who god only knows when he'll get halfway across the board and a 1/3 chance on zogwort (if you're using the reroll and risking him detonating)

4) youre completely foot slogging you need a KFF mek and with the way you're list looks you're much better suited to going full battlewagon rush

Another point is I myself prefer Kans to dreads, Kans can form a wall and give cover to your boyz.

I would change the warboss to have eavy armour powerklaw twin liked shoota and cybork body and put him with five nobs

and

on the battle wagon remove the killkanon as you need fives to hit and add a kannon witch can be a blast weapon so it is easyer to hit coz of the scatter dice and add 4 big shootas or two big shootas and 2 rokkits

and

in the troops give the nob waaagh banner so plus one weapon skill it is hand

its fine but i have a waagh with my nobz... and the killkannon is large blast, not a shot. you dont need a five to hit.
yes, his psychic power autohits.
the only problem with having five nobs is theyll run too easily... and theyre too expensive to had 2 of them running away or having a sweeping advance or whatever its called...



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do you guys think i have enough boyz? i mean ive got 57 and 3 PK nobz...


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thanks all for posting. i think the advice is really halpful


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what do you guys think are the 2 worst parts of my army? i can do points-shuffling to ditch them probably like i did with my deff dread.

Eyclonus wrote:First of all, Claypool, he can't fit 15 lootas into a KillKannon-wagon.

I figured he knew that, and that the lootas were standing next to the wagon...

@stompydakka

You really need at least two Battlewagons for them to be effective and you need to choose whether you want to transport, or to be a gun-tank. It's nearly impossible to do both.

Zogwort NEEDS to be in a 30x Shoota mob and all your mobs on foot NEED to be shootas.

Your nobz should be diversified too.

ok thanks.


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that means less PK nobs, do you think its worth it?



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HQ
1 warboss w/ mega armor, tl shoota and PK-100pts
Old Zogwort-145pts
elites
15xLootas-225pts
10x nobz, 4x PK 6x Big Choppa, Waaaagh banna-345
troops
30xshoota boyz w/ nob, PK and BP, 3x rokkits-250
30xshoota boyz w/ nob, PK and BP 3x rokkits-250
heavy support
battlewagon w/ killkannon, hard case-165pts
thats only 1480 pts, what should i add from there?
If im facing a non-marine/necron army or something with a save of 4+ or worse, I'll give the wagon a deff rolla and lose the killkannon because lootas take out eldar and tau and things like that fantastically.

Trade the rokkits in for big shootas, diversify your nobs, 3PK's max.

See if you can fit some Deffkoptas in for more anti tank.

You really only need 3 PK nobs in a nob list and don't forget the painboy, that 4+ WBB is critical to Nob survival!

What Claypool means by diversify your nobs is to make each nob unique so you can take advantage of the wound allocation rule (Where you can chose where to take wounds as opposed to removing whole models first.)

So that said, your nob squad should look something like this:

Nob 1 - Painboy
Nob 2 - PK
Nob 3 - PK, BP
Nob 4 - PK, Waagh Banner
Nob 5 - UC
Nob 6 - UC, Shoota/Skorcha
Nob 7 - UC, Shoota/Rokkit or TL Shoota
Nob 8 - Vanilla

That said - One thing not yet said which is common advice with orks is it seems that your trying to be overly taktikal - That is, Orks tend to do best with one simple tactic executed, be it ride everyone in on trukks or march everyone up the middle of the field under a mek's forcefield /and/ behind a screen of killa kans.

In your list you have... um... orks marching up the field with no cover? Imperial Guard wil tear this army apart, as will tau, eldar and any other shooty army!

I have to second the notion of the 30 shoota boy mobs but at 1500 points and with a foot slogging army I can't see running any less than 3 full strong mobs of 30 boys.

I know Claypool suggested the boss poles on the 30 boy mobs - and he speaks wisdom - but I don't think they're worth it. Your mob is fearless until the enemy whittles you down to 9 boys and by then its likely too late for those boys, which is okay. At 6 points a piece I can stand to lose 6-9 orks even with a mob if it means I have a fullly untouched mob of 30 charging in the assault phase.

As for Old Zogwort - I've run him a few times for the fun of it. There were two points of interest with old zoggy:

1. He is a god in hand-to-hand. I charged zoggy in against MEQ squads and they fell like wheat, it was very nice!

2. His cruse is useless depending on how you interprit the rules. It says target independent character model. I read it as the model - if it is an IC in the codex. However, according to the rulebook when an IC is joined by a retinue he no longer becomes an IC - He's a... um... I forget what but not an IC. The local club rules judge determined at that point the model can not be targeted by the curse. I've written to GW on this instance but never got a response. That was a while ago and if anyone knows of errata to this end let me know.

I'd still be uncomfortable with giving the warboss mega armor, it gives that whole unit SNP and when that wagon gets popped (because it most likely will) if that unit isn't close to the enemy, you're boned.

If you're worried about the WB being beat on, or that whole unit, give them all cybork and/or 'eavy armor. Orks with a 4+ armor 5+ invuln and FNP are tough customers, even if you're being shot by AP4 guns.

If you insist on marching orks, you may want to get a Big Mek with a KFF and place it somewhere so that it gives both units the cover save, at least at the beginning. This means dropping Zoggy, as your WB is essential to the army as it is. That's entirely up to you and it's a tough choice to make, because Zoggy is that fun and rewarding when he works.

Drop the rokkits in the big 30 mob of boyz. If you're that concerned with a unit taking out AV13 or 14, grab some tankbustas in a trukk. If you lose 4 maybe 5 boyz in each unit and give them big shootas instead of rokkits, drop a nob without a PK, and ditch the mega armor, you'll have more than enough to cover the cost of a trukk with some tankbustas inside.

Doing this would allow you yet another target your enemies could be shooting at instead of your boyz, and may draw their attention away from the wagon, which at this point you'd want a deff rolla on. If you want to be super tricky, drop zoggy and put the Big Mek with the KFF in the trukk, and place the trukk so it covers whatever isn't in cover, but still has a clear shot at driving right into the gut of your opponents gunline.

This way, either your wagon or your tankbustas are going to rip apart whatever enemy vehicles you want off the board.

All food for thought. You have plenty of options with the list you've got, but I really would recommend ditching the rokkits for shootas and picking up a unit that could go after tanks. (The first time I played I tried the rokkit trick, and you'll regret wasting 25+ shoota shots at a tank that doesn't even get glanced by them.)

how many tankbustas do i need?



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so i'm +20 at first.... changing the rokkits to big shootas makes me +50.... making a nob a painboy... +20.... losing a PK nob..... +65.... losing a choppa nob.... +90....losing 2 more choppas.... +100... add a BP... +95.... add 2 combi-weps.... +75.... cyborks.... +35... thats the nobbys done... lose the mega armor but keep the stuff... +45.... heavy armor on the WB... +40... lose the killkanon.. +100... add a big shoota and a deff rolla.... +75... -3 boys and 2 big shootas... +111... a trukk w/ 5 tankbustas in it... +2. there we go. i think thats most of the suggestions....
updated list-
HQ
warrboss, cybork body, eavy armor, tl shoota, PK
Old Zogwort (my buds will prob let it go about his rule...)
Elites
15x Lootas
5x tankbustas w/ 2x tankhammer
Troops
8x Nobs w/ 3x PK 3x BC, WAAAGh banna, painboy, shoota/skorcha, shoota/rokkit
Trukk w/ big shoota
29xshoota boys w/ 2 big shoota, nob w/ PK and BP
28xshoota boys w/ 2 big shoota, nob w/ PK and BP
eavy support
battlewagon w/ 1x big shoota, ard case, deff rolla
total-1499
that look any better to you guys? any more suggestions?

Better, but tankbustas are garbage imo. Get Deffkoptas instead

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this is sorta different...
HQ
warrboss, cybork body, eavy armor, tl shoota, PK- 105 pts
Elites
15x Lootas-225pts
5x tankbustas w/ 2x tankhammer-75 pts
Troops
8x Nobs w/ 3x PK 3x BC, WAAAGh banna, painboy, cybork bodies-335 pts
Trukk w/ big shoota-35 pts
27xshoota boys w/ 2 big shoota, nob w/ PK-207 pts
28xshoota boys w/ 2 big shoota, nob w/ PK-213 pts
eavy support
battlewagon w/ 1x big shoota, 'ard case, deff rolla, armour plates-130 pts
Killa Kansx3 w/ 3x Kustom Mega Blasta-165 pts
tankbustas go in trukk, nobs w/ warboss in wagon
boys advance while kans make wall and shoot stuff (BS 3 reeeealy healps the KMBs, and they give boys good cover)

Claypool wrote:Better, but tankbustas are garbage imo. Get Deffkoptas instead

One of the two would work for the job, but I like tankbusters better. It either draws fire away from the wagon or if they get ignored, they get up close and take out a vehicle or two before the trukk is lost. In my own personal experience, TBs have killed far more per game than koptas have for me, and they typically don't have to suicide themselves to accomplish the task. I know they aren't well liked but they do get the job done, if used right. That said:

If you are going to use the tankbustas, make absolutely certain you understand gloryhogs and how to block LoS if necessary.

the tankbustas dont have to do that if theyre in the truckk tho right?

Nope, they have to.

maybe try to make one of those squads of boyz a 'Ard boyz squad and fill out the numbers a bit

waitt so even if theyre in the trukk? theyll still have to shoot, but they dont have to move like that, do they?

Yes even in a trukk the tank bustas have to obey the glory hound rule which is why most people don't field them. TB's would be an amazing option without that stupid rule. Immagine, marines would fall like wheat without the little ol glory hound rule.

ohhhh.... still though thats ok because thats basically what they're doing anyway.... does the rest of my list look OK?