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Ok, this is an attempt at a non swarm list. I am not a huge fan of throwing little bugs at my enemies in numbers rivaling most small countries. I was trying to come up with a competative list using no gants or gaunts. Also I am trying to avoid tervigons at the moment. Let me know what you think!

== HQ ==
Tyranid Prime - Devourer, Pair Of Boneswords, AG, Toxin Sacs = 110 pts.
Hive Tyrant - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence = 260 pts.

== Elites ==
The Doom Of Malan'tai Brood (130 pts.)
Mycetic Spore
Deathleaper = 140 pts.

== Troops ==
Tyranid Warrior Brood (190 pts.)
Tyranid Warrior (5) - Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Mycetic Spore
Tyranid Warrior Brood (205 pts.)
Tyranid Warrior (4) - Devourer, Scything Talons
Tyranid Warrior (1) - Venom Cannon, Scything Talons
Mycetic Spore

== Heavy Support ==
Trygon Prime (1) - Containment Spines, Toxin Sacs, Synapse Creature, Shadow In The Warp = 250 pts.
Trygon (1) - Toxin Sacs, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed = 210 pts.

== Total ==
1495 pts.

- Drop the double bonesowrds on the Tyranid Prime for a more interesting config sword+whip.

- Drop the Deathleaper and consider instead Zoans or Hive Guards you really need both of them in serious broods with this list.

- Warriors with Rending Claws need Toxin Sacs.
- Drop the Venomcannon on Warriors, Barbed Strangler is better.

- Both Trygons needs Adrenal Glands instead of Toxin sacs.
Toxin sacs are great vs other MCs or similar but as an optional from the standard config that should alwais include adrenal glands.
You don't need one of them to be a Prime, 2 regular Trygons will works good enought.


PS: take a look at the latest Tyranids official FAQs.
The Tyranid Prime can't take a Spod so it can't be fielded in DS with a Warriors unit (thing I'm supposing you were wanting to do).

Yeah no place for the Prime to fit so what is the point?

Though I do like the double bonesword config for IDing ICs which the single is very unlikiley to do.

Otherwise follow toban's advice it is all good. THe only reason I can see for taking the prime is for Synapse and the extra range on the shots.

This list is reserve heavy so not taking Hive Commander seems a waste.

Detahleaper does absolutely nothing for you in this list, replace him with spore Zooes and find points elsewhere for more (perhaps the Warrior Prime too).

You need the ranged AT of the Zoes and Hive GUard won't really fit with the rest of the army.

I'd also advise looking at Stealers for troops. You are low on bodies and outflank can mean they get to assault the turn they arrive meaning they can be less of sitting ducks than the Warriors.

Also the Venom Cannon is simply an awful weapon. Take the barbed strangler everytime.

Good points all around. Hows this for a revised list?

== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence = 260 pts.

== Elites ==
Zoanthrope Brood (220 pts.)
Zoanthrope (3)
Mycetic Spore
Hive Guard Brood (3) = 150 pts.

== Troops ==
Genestealer Brood (230 pts.)
Genestealer (10) - Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
Mycetic Spore
Genestealer Brood (10) - Toxin Sacs = 170 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Trygon Prime (1) - Containment Spines, AG, Synapse Creature, Shadow In The Warp = 250 pts.
Trygon (1) - AG, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed = 210 pts.

== Total ==
1490 pts.

Don't spore the Genestealers, just keep them as outflankers, they are more effective that way. If you are deepstriking you should be good as short ranged fire or if you are assault based you need to be quick and survivable. Stealers deepstriking in will just get blown away by anything.

Keep the stealers as just toxin sacs to get more bodies (you'll still be far from a horde).

And I can't stress this enough on an army where all but 1 unit is in reserve Hive Commander is the best 25 points you'll ever spend. Get it on your Tyrant right away.

Otherwise your army will be turning up on 4+ on turn 2 3+ on turn 3 and then the rest on turn 4 (perhaps the odd strangler on turn 5). In other words it will come on in nice bit sized chunks that the enemy can concentrate on and annihilate. With Hive Commander that becomes 3+ followed by 2+ straight off eth bat. Meaning that either on turn 2 or 3 2 of those MCs will turn up together giving yuour opponent one hell of a head headache (most of the time it will be turn 2).

Also with the Zoes arriving to distrupt his vehciles you've got some real punch. I'd suggest dropping the Hive guard and getting 2 units of 2 Zoes in spods. Otherwise eth Hiveguard will be the only thing on the table for potentially your opponents first 2 turns which would spell disaster for them. I love Hive guard but in an all Reserve list they are far more difficult to us due to lack of mobility and range.

Otherwise this list is looking very good a big step forward from the previous. Without Hive Commander though it will fail more often than not, put Hive Commander in and it will work far better straight away.

FlingitNow wrote:Don't spore the Genestealers, just keep them as outflankers, they are more effective that way. If you are deepstriking you should be good as short ranged fire or if you are assault based you need to be quick and survivable. Stealers deepstriking in will just get blown away by anything.

Keep the stealers as just toxin sacs to get more bodies (you'll still be far from a horde).

And I can't stress this enough on an army where all but 1 unit is in reserve Hive Commander is the best 25 points you'll ever spend. Get it on your Tyrant right away.

Otherwise your army will be turning up on 4+ on turn 2 3+ on turn 3 and then the rest on turn 4 (perhaps the odd strangler on turn 5). In other words it will come on in nice bit sized chunks that the enemy can concentrate on and annihilate. With Hive Commander that becomes 3+ followed by 2+ straight off eth bat. Meaning that either on turn 2 or 3 2 of those MCs will turn up together giving yuour opponent one hell of a head headache (most of the time it will be turn 2).

Also with the Zoes arriving to distrupt his vehciles you've got some real punch. I'd suggest dropping the Hive guard and getting 2 units of 2 Zoes in spods. Otherwise eth Hiveguard will be the only thing on the table for potentially your opponents first 2 turns which would spell disaster for them. I love Hive guard but in an all Reserve list they are far more difficult to us due to lack of mobility and range.

Otherwise this list is looking very good a big step forward from the previous. Without Hive Commander though it will fail more often than not, put Hive Commander in and it will work far better straight away.

Ok, hows this looking?

== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Hive Commander = 285 pts.

== Elites ==
Zoanthrope Brood (160 pts.)
Zoanthrope
Mycetic Spore
Zoanthrope Brood (160 pts.)
Zoanthrope
Mycetic Spore

== Troops ==
Genestealer Brood (12) - Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs = 228 pts.
Genestealer Brood (12) - Toxin Sacs = 204 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Trygon Prime (1) - Containment Spines, AG, Synapse Creature, Shadow In The Warp = 250 pts.
Trygon (1) - AG, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed = 210 pts.

== Total ==
1497 pts.

Yeah I wouldn't like to face that list. Given you've got not gaunts or Gants that is about as good a reserve list as I've seen from 1,500. Having 3 serious MCs in the list will give many armies a real problem at 1,500 points.

I'll drop the Scytin' Talons on Stealers.. honestly useless.
I'll replace sameway the Trygon Prime with a simple one.
Still with AG.

You'll gain 64 points that can mean one more Zoant. or a different config for the Stealers.

In anycase I think you're in the good path.

Pay attention to flamers and large blast.

Toban wrote:I'll drop the Scytin' Talons on Stealers.. honestly useless.
I'll replace sameway the Trygon Prime with a simple one.
Still with AG.

You'll gain 64 points that can mean one more Zoant. or a different config for the Stealers.

I'd definitely agree with this. With the remaining 64 points I'd probably get three more Toxin Genestealers and split them into three groups of 9.

Toban wrote:Pay attention to flamers and large blast.

This is very true. With a non-swarm list and only two (maybe three) fragile troop units you will need to play very defensively with those Genestealers in objective games. One or two flamer templates will erase an entire squad and deep-striking or fast-moving flamers aren't exactly rare.

Again, thanks so much for the insight! I am def going to break the stealers into 3 squads of 9 with no scytals. As for the prime, I am either going to have to keep him as is or drop him all together. If I drop him out what can I put in instead? Without the horde on my side I need something to scare them a bit.

I'm no expert, but IMO mechdar will destroy this list if played well, and dice gods willing.

Also, only two troops? And genestealers aren't meant to sit on objectives.. I highly advise, while sticking with the theme you have for the army, to have some warriors or something cheap sitting in cover on your objectives in obj. games.

Just my two cents. Will you be test playing this army?

I'm no expert, but IMO mechdar will destroy this list if played well, and dice gods willing.

Mechdar will destroy pretty much any Nid build. Even with 9 Hive Guard you'd struggle, there isn't a Nid build I've seen that will cope well with mechdar.

Looks good. I love that you can take the DOM in a spore.

I hope to playtest these suggested builds as soon as I can.

If you can get it look into Old Adversary for the Hive Tyrant. It's like putting double scything talons on every single unit in 6" of him, including himself. Very nice upgrade. I usually run a lash whip/bone sword and gun tyrant. One more monstrous creature for armored can-opening and general killiness in assault.

tony_nids_10 wrote:Again, thanks so much for the insight! I am def going to break the stealers into 3 squads of 9 with no scytals. As for the prime, I am either going to have to keep him as is or drop him all together. If I drop him out what can I put in instead? Without the horde on my side I need something to scare them a bit.

Why do you need to use him as a prime or drop him altogether? Sure you may have modeled him as a prime, but a bigger mandible doesn't mean "THIS MUST BE A PRIME" to most friendly players, even in many tournament settings. Worst-case scenario just remodel his jaws if the people you play with are that unfriendly about it. A pair of trygons is very deadly, I would try to keep that in the list.

Kirbinator wrote:

tony_nids_10 wrote:Again, thanks so much for the insight! I am def going to break the stealers into 3 squads of 9 with no scytals. As for the prime, I am either going to have to keep him as is or drop him all together. If I drop him out what can I put in instead? Without the horde on my side I need something to scare them a bit.

Why do you need to use him as a prime or drop him altogether? Sure you may have modeled him as a prime, but a bigger mandible doesn't mean "THIS MUST BE A PRIME" to most friendly players, even in many tournament settings. Worst-case scenario just remodel his jaws if the people you play with are that unfriendly about it. A pair of trygons is very deadly, I would try to keep that in the list.

But three primes is better

I play with a self proclaimed "Rules Lawyer" He makes it way more difficult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, I've updated the list again and I'm still a little worried about obj based games. What do you think now?

== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Hive Commander = 285 pts.

== Elites ==
Zoanthrope Brood (160 pts.)
Zoanthrope (2)
Mycetic Spore
Zoanthrope Brood (160 pts.)
Zoanthrope (2)
Mycetic Spore

== Troops ==
Genestealer Brood (9) - Toxin Sacs = 153 pts.
Genestealer Brood (9) - Toxin Sacs = 153 pts.
Genestealer Brood (9) - Toxin Sacs = 153 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Trygon (1) - AG, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed = 210 pts.
Trygon (1) - AG, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed = 210 pts.

== Total ==
1484 pts.

Still noone to hold objectives at your end of the table.. which is exactly why people have Tervigons.. but I can appreciate you're trying to not have them.. it's just that in 5th, they're key to Nid tactics.. spam everything down the enemies' throat!

well, I like your list very much now.

It's completely optimized, OR you'll win OR you'll lose but it's exactely how I love to play Nids right now.

Just one things I do lately at those points levels, is to concentrate the Stealers in 2 Broods with multi-wounds Broodlord(10x+1x) and take a little brood of Termagants.

Of course you risk to tie a lot of games.
You'll have to steal the more attention you'll can with yours MCs. popping right in the face as soon as possible.

At the end of the game you'll can contest some obj. but you'll have to already had chewed most of things on the field.

This will push your concetration on the good target, not the easy one but the one you'll want not to face again the turn after.
Every game will sound like a kill-points game or better in a hunting session, Nids job.

I play with a self proclaimed "Rules Lawyer" He makes it way more difficult.

Have a read through the fun list of RaW thread and if he tries enforcing "rules" on you, beat him at his own game. Particularly if he's started with models on the board (which by RaW is not allowed).

Good point! I talked to him today and I think I'll get away with running them both as standard trygons.

tony_nids_10 wrote:Good point! I talked to him today and I think I'll get away with running them both as standard trygons.

Anyone who takes this game seriously enough to not let you run something slightly weaker than what it is assembled to be because its got a longer tail and more mandibles needs to get a life.

Anyway, let us know how the game goes!