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as the subject says, i am wondering how good a thunderfire cannon is in the game. it is a really nice model and i wouldlike to see how it works effectively.


i also was wondering what would be the best inquisitor layout for an allied inquisitor in a space marine mostly long range fire army.

thanks!

Don't know about the inquisitor, but I am an advocate for the TFC. On paper it is a glass cannon (destroyed by a glancing hit). This can be mitigated by putting it in a bolstered ruin and having juicier targets, like LR's, Vindicators, Predators, etc to shoot at. Many people will say that the TFC sucks due to its inability to deal with vehicles. Use other things pop the transports then drop 4 blast templates on the guys inside! It works well against hordes with some cover ignoring rounds and against MEQ's with S6 rounds. I once put 30 wounds on a Tactical squad because they were bunched up from having their transport blown.

I played in a 1500pt tournament this weekend, and one of the players had a TFC. In every single game, it was destroyed first turn. It didn't exactly take much fire power to make it disappear either. Sure they can put a hurting on hordes, but they die very easily.

I'm not convinced they have a place in a tourny list that you expect to be able to stand up to a variety of opponents, but against some opponents they should perform very well. They are too hit or miss for me. YMMV.

There was a good thread on this question a little while ago:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/296853.page

Also other threads besides that one. Just use the search and type in "thunderfire."

the fact of the matter is, there is almost no situation where i'd rather have a TFC over a predator destructor, with its autocannon + 2 heavy bolter loadout.

against hordes, assume each blast can hit at most 3 guys.... 2 dead on hits for 6, and say 2 partials for another 3. you hit 9 guys, probably kill 6 of those.

now, the predator may only hit 6, and only kill 3-4 of them.... but it is FAR more survivable, can fire its autocannon while moving, is 15 points cheaper, can move 12" to contest if needed, can tank shock if needed, and can deal with vehicles with its autocannon more effectively.

not hard to see why the predator is better. the TFC may kill 3-4 more guys per turn, but it will be dead by turn 2, while the predator will keep plugging away, drawing fire off the rest of your army.

I have never used one, but I have witnessed both arguments. I am personally on the fence, having weighed all of the info. I think that they can be useful if you are careful with them. They can definately provide a TON of firepower with some interesting shots along the way. I personally favor the predator, but that is in part because I have two predators, and 0 TFC. I think they are worth a shot at least.

I've seen a couple played to varying effects.
They're great against horde forces with little in the way of long-range fire, like Orks and Nids. The variety of available rounds that the TFC can throw out is really nice if you can keep it firing.
Against MEQ armies, IG, Eldar, or any other army with a slection of long-ranged fire that can reliably glance AV10, pray for the first turn so you at least get one volley off. A single krak missile ends the TFC most days. Not every table has a ruin you can bolster, so that option isn't reliable.

Now, if you have a variety of vehicles in your list that are more threatening, or can be used as a mobile screen for the TFC, it'll live longer. Park something solid in front of the TFC on turn one, move it out of the way in your Movement phase, then fire away. Of course, this is assuming whatever you parked in front isn't stunned, immobilized, or wrecked before it can out of the way

When I had one firing at me, the owner was lobbing the S6 shells at me the whole game. Wounding MEQ n a 2 is nice, but the fact that it's four separate small Blast templates that each roll for scatter is tough. If you can get a bunched up target, you get a ton of hits if you don't scatter. Otherwise, you only get a couple (or none!).

Remember the TFC is a vehicle and needs 50% of it being covered to claim cover. That is often overlooked.

Heh, "worth a shot."

My own experience is playing against players using Thunderfire cannons three times.

The first time, I plinked the cannon with typhoon-mounted krak missiles in turn one before it got to fire. It was in 3+ cover ruins, but when one hit kills the gun and you get 2 or 3, that pretty much guarantees a kill on the cannon. The tech marine stood in the ruins for the rest of the game.

In a later game, my opponent had 2 TFCs. I killed one in turn one with a rifleman dread (same principle--score 2 or 3 hits on the gun and it dies, the tech marine lives but is useless). Then I ignored the second one for the rest of the game while it repeatedly scratched the paint off my rhinos and razors.

In my most recent game, I decided to just ignore the TFC so I could shoot at other stuff, kept anything that might be vulnerable to it outside its LoS (like disembarking behind a transport), and thus it didn't do anything effective against my army.

Granted, in all three of these games I was playing mech marines, who can shrug off a lot of str6 scattering templates and have a lot of long-range, high-volume, str 7-8 firepower of the type that kills the TFC cannon easily at range in cover. But even so.

I love anecdotel evidence so I'll play along to.

My first game with a TFC I targeted a 12-man Slaanesh squad and put 24 wound son them. 8 died and my opponent redirected everything in his army to avoid the TFC. This meant he walked into the path of 2 dreads who munched up his scoring units

2nd game with a TFC was against Mech BT's. I took and shot at a couple of closely parked LR's and immobilied one. Out came the 15-man squad inside who had to walk up the board. Gone was the co-ordinated assault of the two tanks. I sat around a few turns until the big unit needed to make a dash to my lines to assault and I wounded about 14 of them in one salvo.

3rd game was 1st round of Ard Boyz last year. I was up against a walking Eldar list who had 2 squads of pathfinders hiding in a trench. 3 Wraithlords, an Avatar and a walking Seer Council were between me and the Pathfinders. The TFC took out both squads over 3 turns of fire.

4th game was Ard Boyz. I was up against a Deathwing army. I tried to immobilse a LR again, but it didn't work. A squad of termies got caught in the open when their ride was popped and I tranied the TFC on them. First shots didn't do anything, next turn he lost 3 Termies and retreated them behind some LOS blocking terrain in his deployment zone.

5th game was Ard Boyz. I was up against an all mounted Eldar Army in a corner deployment. I sent a tremor round into 4 serpents on turn 1 and none were immobilised. The seer council serpent went down from another unit and stood in the wreckage. The TFC shot at them and put 9 wounds on them, 4 died with the help of Null Zone and they failed their morale check and ran off the board.

6th game was Ard Boyz against Tau. I sniped some kroot in the woods, but didn't do much of anything else.

7th game was Ard Boyz against all mech BT in a nightfight. I didn't shoot anything and the TFC got assaulted and destroyed.

8th game was Ard Boyz semi-final championship game against Daemons. It was a corner deployment and I put the TFC on a hill deep in my corner with marines surrounding it. As daemon units dropped down (Skarbrand and lots of Fiends/Daemonettes), the TFC and Null Zone killed huge numbers of them (no cover from the TFC and reroll invulnerables). I won easily because of those two factors and took home my second 2500pt army from GW.

9th game was Ard Boyz finals against all mech Eldar. I pumped several tremor shots into Serpents and my opponent wouldn't move any serpent that was hit. It kept him at bay for a while, but the TFC eventually died to an assault.

10 game was Ard Boyz finals against mixed mech Orks. The TFC opened up on a large Loota squad and took them out over 2 turns. Next it targeted mobs as they disembarked from destroyed transports and killed a bunch of them.

11th game was against Dark Eldar raider spam in a corner deployment. The TFC took out a few raiders with STR 6 shots and then helped remove the crew when they hide in the wreckage. My attack bikes were having trouble crossing the field to get into assault with those units and the TFC bailed them out.

I love the TFC. Mainly because of how much my opponents hate it. They are particularly fun against these IG blob squads that are so fashionable anymore.

DarthDiggler wrote:I love anecdotel evidence so I'll play along to.

My first game with a TFC I targeted a 12-man Slaanesh squad and put 24 wound son them. 8 died and my opponent redirected everything in his army to avoid the TFC. This meant he walked into the path of 2 dreads who munched up his scoring units

2nd game with a TFC was against Mech BT's. I took and shot at a couple of closely parked LR's and immobilied one. Out came the 15-man squad inside who had to walk up the board. Gone was the co-ordinated assault of the two tanks. I sat around a few turns until the big unit needed to make a dash to my lines to assault and I wounded about 14 of them in one salvo.

3rd game was 1st round of Ard Boyz last year. I was up against a walking Eldar list who had 2 squads of pathfinders hiding in a trench. 3 Wraithlords, an Avatar and a walking Seer Council were between me and the Pathfinders. The TFC took out both squads over 3 turns of fire.

4th game was Ard Boyz. I was up against a Deathwing army. I tried to immobilse a LR again, but it didn't work. A squad of termies got caught in the open when their ride was popped and I tranied the TFC on them. First shots didn't do anything, next turn he lost 3 Termies and retreated them behind some LOS blocking terrain in his deployment zone.

5th game was Ard Boyz. I was up against an all mounted Eldar Army in a corner deployment. I sent a tremor round into 4 serpents on turn 1 and none were immobilised. The seer council serpent went down from another unit and stood in the wreckage. The TFC shot at them and put 9 wounds on them, 4 died with the help of Null Zone and they failed their morale check and ran off the board.

6th game was Ard Boyz against Tau. I sniped some kroot in the woods, but didn't do much of anything else.

7th game was Ard Boyz against all mech BT in a nightfight. I didn't shoot anything and the TFC got assaulted and destroyed.

8th game was Ard Boyz semi-final championship game against Daemons. It was a corner deployment and I put the TFC on a hill deep in my corner with marines surrounding it. As daemon units dropped down (Skarbrand and lots of Fiends/Daemonettes), the TFC and Null Zone killed huge numbers of them (no cover from the TFC and reroll invulnerables). I won easily because of those two factors and took home my second 2500pt army from GW.

9th game was Ard Boyz finals against all mech Eldar. I pumped several tremor shots into Serpents and my opponent wouldn't move any serpent that was hit. It kept him at bay for a while, but the TFC eventually died to an assault.

10 game was Ard Boyz finals against mixed mech Orks. The TFC opened up on a large Loota squad and took them out over 2 turns. Next it targeted mobs as they disembarked from destroyed transports and killed a bunch of them.

11th game was against Dark Eldar raider spam in a corner deployment. The TFC took out a few raiders with STR 6 shots and then helped remove the crew when they hide in the wreckage. My attack bikes were having trouble crossing the field to get into assault with those units and the TFC bailed them out.

Seems like some strong evidence, that, if properly supported, a TFC seems to be capable of bringing some amount of pain. Just needs to be played correctly.

As I stated. If you give your opponents other targets it will usually live. I probably average about 12 hits when shooting the cannon and even more against mass horde armies.


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Hod, the TFC and techmarine are a unit. So if the cannon is not in cover but the techmarine is, you get a cover save. If the cannon is obscured and the techmarine is not in cover, you get a cover save. Remember that 50% of the unit has to be "in cover" to get a cover save.

So if you put the cannon on top of a fortified ruin, you get a 3+ cover save due to the techmarine being in area terrain.

Good to know about the cover issue. I didn't realize it worked that way.

I'm not saying that is how everyone interprets it, but it is the easiest way to deal with it while following the rules on cover. The TFC is a complex unit consisting of infantry and something with an AV.

I see. Seems like a pretty fair way to deal with it.

thanks a ton! this seems to help a ton!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
it seems to be a good unit that has to have a great amount of time and tactics spent in order to make it not be killed quickly. i may have to game with it and see how it works out.

i like the idea of a landraider in front of it, moving the land raider and then firing the TFC.

Honestly if your TFC is in your backfield and there is a LR then you shouldn't worry too much about that TFC getting popped. The best thing is play a few games with it and see how you like it.

Yeah, seems like they would just shoot at the LR anyway, and then worry about the TFC. That is, unless you are playing Orks, and you can block a deffkopta assault or loota LOS.

From my experience, deffkoptas and lootaz are not the most popular choices at least not in my scene.

Honersstodnt wrote:against hordes, assume each blast can hit at most 3 guys.... 2 dead on hits for 6, and say 2 partials for another 3

Err, what? There's no partial hits in 5th.