Brand new player, brand new ork army 1500 c&c please!

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**rutig3r**

Well the title pretty much says it, I just got into the hobby about 2 weeks ago I guess, have yet to play a game actually

Here is the list I am thinking of building, pretty standard Kan Wall list at 1500

HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF 85

Big Mek w/ KFF 85

Elites

Loota x 15 225

Troops
19 Shoota Boyz
2 Big Shootas
Nob w/ BP and PK
170

19 Shoota Boyz
2 Big Shootas
Nob w/ BP and PK
170

19 Shoota Boyz
2 Big Shootas
Nob w/ BP and PK
170

Fast Attack
Deffkopta w/ T-L Rokkit Launca
45

Deffkopta w/ T-L Rokkit Launca
45

Deffkopta w/ T-L Rokkit Launca
45

Heavy Support
3x Killa Kans w/ Rokkit Launcha
150

3x Killa Kans w/ Rokkit Launcha
150

3x Killa Kans w/ Grotzooka
135

Which leaves me at I believe 1475

My questions are, to many rokkits?
I like the idea of possibly adding a Grot unit, for objectives, but how do I squeeze those 40 points in?
Two 30 boyz mobs, or keep it at three with 20 in each, or do I need even more boyz?
Should I split the Lootas into 2 units?

I understand that it is a pretty basic Kan Wall list, and there are a number already floating around, so I am sorry for this, howver any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

**sn0zcumb3r**

Welcome to 40k! it's good fun.
I run a similar list and it does pretty good. Here are the tweaks I suggest:
Rockits are fine since you dont have that many Lootas to wreck vehicles.
Take off the BS from the squads. They dont offer very much, use the points (30 in total) plus the 25 spare to buy more shootas. The squads need to be bigger and once they are you can make conga lines from objective to objective. Grots just get in the way.
You can even take a gamble and drop the BP since you probably wont need them till it's to late (The squads are pretty large) and use the 15 points to get another Loota. Then split them into two squads of 8. If your Lootas get assaulted by an outflanking unit they are dead whether they are 8 or 15 so split them to get 2 targets instead of one. I personaly prefer 2 squads of 9 as a minimum..
Finaly check your deffkoptaz. They are easy to kill and you have 3 killpoints waiting to be collected. I prefer to run them 2 and 1. See what suits you best

**Samus_aran115**

Looks good! I don't know enough about orks to say for sure, but you can never have too many rockets!

**Nightbringer's Chosen**

I feel like you should split the Lootas into two mobs. Otherwise there will be situations where you really wish you could shoot at two units rather than doing 30 wounds too many to one unit.

Not that I think you shouldn't, but is there a reason you're using the Koptaz over the Buggies with similar loadout? I'd think about why you're going one of the other, and then figure out if the difference in points is worth what you get.

**Stubby**

So this is what i run, I suggest you move the lootas into smaller units of 5, and you might even want to cut out a whole boys mob, and fill the remainder to capacity, and then make sure you have all your deffkoptas running alone, and you want them to all have buzzsaws, for turn one assault.(Can you say 3 strength 7 automatic hits against rear armor? I can.)

Your list is pretty solid however, prepare to do quite a bit of winning.

1 Big Mek (HQ) @ 85 Pts

1 Big Mek (HQ) @ 85 Pts

10 Kommandos (Elites) @ 215 Pts
Burna (x2)

1 Boss Snikrot @ [85] Pts
Stikkbombz
#Mork's Teeth [0]

5 Lootas (Elites) @ 75 Pts
Deffguns (x5)

5 Lootas (Elites) @ 75 Pts
Deffguns (x5)

29 Ork Boyz (Troops) @ 230 Pts
Big Shoota (x2); Shoota (x27)

1 Nob @ [46] Pts
Power Klaw (x1); Slugga (x1)
Bosspole [5]

29 Ork Boyz (Troops) @ 230 Pts
Big Shoota (x2); Shoota (x27)

1 Nob @ [46] Pts
Power Klaw (x1); Slugga (x1)
Bosspole [5]

1 Deffkoptas (Fast Attack) @ 70 Pts
Buzzsaw (x1); Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha (x1); Choppa (x1)

3 Killa Kan (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC Weapon;
Rokkit Launcha

3 Killa Kan (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC Weapon;
Rokkit Launcha

3 Killa Kan (Heavy Support) @ 135 Pts
Front Armour: 11; Side Armour: 11; Rear Armour: 10; Dreadnought CC Weapon;
Grotzooka

**Nightbringer's Chosen**

Tpyo, Stubby? Or did you mean only one Deffkopta?

**sn0zcumb3r**

I personally prefer the original list to Stubbys..
Stubbys list while very strong vs a static army will have trouble taking out fast transports (only 10 lootas in 2 squads and 1 Deffkopta)
Also you need more troops. A couple of flamers or cover negating shots on the boyz squads and you will be forced to table your opponent as you have no more troops.

If you really like Snikrot in this list (I'd rather have more Lootas please) you can use him with a minimal squad of 5. He should still effectively wreck a vehicles or squad when he arrives without being such a points loss in the next roung when he gets targeted.

**2000 Volts**

To the OP: Your list, for a first list, is pretty well on the money! I run Kan Wall and at 1500 points this is pretty well what I run. The only difference is I take a lot less lootas and take more boys. My Kan Army looks like this:

HQ: 170

KFF Mek

KFF Mek

ELITE: 90

Lootas x 6

TROOP: 678

30 x slugga boys, 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 x shoota boys, 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

30 x Shoota boys, 3 BS, Nob w/ PK

FAST: 135

Deffkopta w/ TL RL

Deffkopta w/ TL RL

Deffkopta w/ TL RL

HS: 430

3 x Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas

3 x Killa Kans w/ Kustom Mega Blastas

3 x Killa Kans w/ 2 Grotzooka, Shoota

1500 on the dot

I know there will be people who disagree with my list, and that's okay. Orks are like Pizza toppings - no two people can agree on the proper way to prepare an Ork army, just as no two people can agree on the proper toppings for pizza.

That said, I will address the negative nancies:

For those who say the big shootas in my boys mobs are no good, I disagree. WIth my army plodding behind the Kans I've found, historically, that having a lot of lead in the air to soften the enemy up before the charge is invaluable. Actually I prefer to shoot at units I won't be charging so the counter-charge won't be as painful!

Kustom Mega Blastas are great! I think 90% of the people here will disagree with me but KMB Kans are some serious tank hunters! They fire at BS 3 for starters so you have a 50/50 chance to hit. 3 S8 AP1 hits against transport vehicles always pops them. Against side armor of tanks (AV 12 vehicles) I tend to at least shake the vehicle if not destroy it outright. That one Kan mob are great tank hunters believe it or not.

As these lists come in tho, and as people make recommendations and suggestions, take the "Drop this add that" posters with a grain of salt. Really the reason we play Orks is becuase they're fun and because they are so customizable - to include their tactics. You have the core of a Kan Wall down pat - 2 KFF meks and 9 Kans.

As for what you have, deffinitly split your lootas. I prefer small units of lootas to larger ones. They can split fire for one, and if they are attacked they're done anyway at 15 just as well as 5.

**Pika_power**

2000 Volts wrote:
Kustom Mega Blastas are great! I think 90% of the people here will disagree with me but KMB Kans are some serious tank hunters! They fire at BS 3 for starters so you have a 50/50 chance to hit. 3 S8 AP1 hits against transport vehicles always pops them. Against side armor of tanks (AV 12 vehicles) I tend to at least shake the vehicle if not destroy it outright. That one Kan mob are great tank hunters believe it or not.

I agree with you. s8 AP1 is easily better than the S8 AP3 of Rokkits when it comes to tankhunting, and would be worth the extra points. Sadly, KMB are AP2, and the difference between them and Rokkits when hunting vehicles is nil. This is why people don't take KMB.

Why do people always place Deffkoptas ahead of Buggies? Don't Buggies bring the same, speedy TL Rokkits to the table, for less points?

**2000 Volts**

KMB is AP2? Wow, I'll have to check that - for hte longest I thought htey were AP1. That's what happens when you get to be an old man and have played WH40K in 3 different editions now, your mind gets befuddled

**mercer**

The first list is pretty spot on and shouldn't be messed with. It only needs fine tuning. Switch the big shootas with rokkits; you've got enough anti infantry fire power already. Add buzzsaws onto Kopters if you can, this make require a drop in Lootas and give all Killa Kanz rokkits.

**sn0zcumb3r**

2000volts I would like to disagree on everything except the pizza topings and the lootas

That said, I will address the negative nancies:

Some may take this to be rude... especially if english is not their native languages

For those who say the big shootas in my boys mobs are no good, I disagree. WIth my army plodding behind the Kans I've found, historically, that having a lot of lead in the air to soften the enemy up before the charge is invaluable. Actually I prefer to shoot at units I won't be charging so the counter-charge won't be as painful!

15 points of BS per squad is one more Loota. That's a lot more lead in the air, mixes in well and doesn't prevent the boyz from running etc. The second part I dont understand as in any given turn you can only charge at the unit you have shot at.. so if you shoot at unit A charge unit B and get counter charged next turn by unit A thenwhat you did was illegal

Kustom Mega Blastas are great! I think 90% of the people here will disagree with me but KMB Kans are some serious tank hunters! They fire at BS 3 for starters so you have a 50/50 chance to hit. 3 S8 AP1 hits against transport vehicles always pops them. Against side armor of tanks (AV 12 vehicles) I tend to at least shake the vehicle if not destroy it outright. That one Kan mob are great tank hunters believe it or not.

This was pointed out already... but backing up an argument with examples of how it works for you in a game when you clearly have the fundamentals wrong means a) you dont play all that much or b) you are playing the game with wrong rules.

As these lists come in tho, and as people make recommendations and suggestions, take the "Drop this add that" posters with a grain of salt. Really the reason we play Orks is becuase they're fun and because they are so customizable - to include their tactics. You have the core of a Kan Wall down pat - 2 KFF meks and 9 Kans.

Almost everybody who posts on a army list is a "Drop this add that" poster! What on earth would be the point of posting if not to make suggestions. And nobody put a gun to his head and said take Flash Gitz or else... It goes without saying that each posters gives his ideas, back's them up with some kind of argument and the readers are free to follow or ignore

**mercer**

Plus a KMB is AP2

So not that awesome for cracking tanks. Works against light armour better.

**2000 Volts**

As these lists come in tho, and as people make recommendations and suggestions, take the "Drop this add that" posters with a grain of salt. Really the reason we play Orks is becuase they're fun and because they are so customizable - to include their tactics. You have the core of a Kan Wall down pat - 2 KFF meks and 9 Kans.

Almost everybody who posts on a army list is a "Drop this add that" poster! What on earth would be the point of posting if not to make suggestions. And nobody put a gun to his head and said take Flash Gitz or else... It goes without saying that each posters gives his ideas, back's them up with some kind of argument and the readers are free to follow or ignore

**vanghost**

For what its worth, at the 1500 pt level i tend to favor Stormboyz over Deffkoptas in the fast attack slot, and here is my logic. Assuming you end up taking Rockets on the kans and in the boyz units (I'm not sure id take them with the boyz but i see the argument), you don't really need that many more rockets from the deffkoptas. Well, i take that back, sure they are really helpful, but deffkoptas are pretty fragile. Getting the scout move and taking down a tank turn 1 if you go first is really awesome, but this isn't really reliable. Most people are going to realize what you are doing and if you fail, your koptas will die quickly without really accomplishing much. I do like them, and use them along with stormboyz in 1850. The argument for stormboyz is that, for one, they can deep strike. This is really helpful in just about any type of army list, especially if you are going against someone with a lot of shooty stuff. Getting in closer to get that power fist into the side of a tank, or a monsterous creature is probably more reliable than the rockets, even twin-linked. The deffkoptas either seem to be absolutely amazing or really pointless. On the plus side the models from Black Reach are full of win

You can outflank with the koptas too, so dont forget that you have that option, and it can be a good one. Anyway, stormboyz and deffkoptas are pretty different in their uses, but i think we could make the assumption that the point of most of the slots is simply to protect your troops and allow them to take objectives, hold ground, etc. I find the stormboyz more reliable here, not to mention less kill points than 3 units of 1 kopta. Just my 2 cents. Welcome to 40k and Orks! I'm pretty new myself (8 months maybe?).

Edit: the weapons on the kans is really up you depending on their purpose. KMB is a pretty cool way of dealing with terminator saves, and you get to ignore "gets hot!" On the other hand, as stated earlier, its really not much better for most things than the rockets. Also, grotzookas are pretty nifty AOE when you're dropping quite a few of them on units. I didnt like it til i tried it lol.

**Stubby**

sn0zcumb3r wrote:I personally prefer the original list to Stubbys..
Stubbys list while very strong vs a static army will have trouble taking out fast transports (only 10 lootas in 2 squads and 1 Deffkopta)
Also you need more troops. A couple of flamers or cover negating shots on the boyz squads and you will be forced to table your opponent as you have no more troops.

If you really like Snikrot in this list (I'd rather have more Lootas please) you can use him with a minimal squad of 5. He should still effectively wreck a vehicles or squad when he arrives without being such a points loss in the next roung when he gets targeted.

You know, i thought this too, however just last week i had a dark eldar player yelling at me saying my codex is broken. Its much more effective then one might think.

**rutig3r**

Thank you all for the suggestions, I probably will end up splitting the loota squad, making it either two units of 7 or 9.
As for adding a snikrot unit, I was thinking about that as well, it seems as though it would be a fun time, as well as adding a psychological element.

mercer wrote:The first list is pretty spot on and shouldn't be messed with. It only needs fine tuning. Switch the big shootas with rokkits; you've got enough anti infantry fire power already. Add buzzsaws onto Kopters if you can, this make require a drop in Lootas and give all Killa Kanz rokkits.

I like the idea of buzzsaws, and may add them, and if I shift around a few things, I can easily add them to the list, maybe even just dropping one copta.

**mercer**

2000 Volts wrote:Take for example the argument of Big Shootas - I walk my boys the first turn unless I'm going up against a gun line. People vastly underestimate the power of ork Shooting and I've even done well with my list just throwing lead in the air. Others say Big Shootas are a waste of points, such as yourself. Your argument is the lootas put more lead in the air but, let's see how the numbers stack up... 3 Big shootas = 9 shots - 1 loota = 1-3 shots (Average 2) Doing the mathhammer, 9 shots at BS 2, S5 against a marine = .666 kills. With the loota, an average of 2 shots at BS 2 and S7 = .18 kills against the same unit. Even with a full 3 shots you're still only killing .27 units. Since .666 > .27, I have to say three Big Shootas are more firepower and thus are better than one loota. It would take that one loota three rounds, scoring maximum fire each round, to do more damage than the big shoota.

As for the tactical side, I tend to shoot at units I don't intend to charge in the first turn then shoot/charge at units I will be engaging in H2H in the second turn. On that note please have your ducks in a row before making comments like "The second part I dont understand as in any given turn you can only charge at the unit you have shot at.. so if you shoot at unit A charge unit B and get counter charged next turn by unit A thenwhat you did was illegal" You can fire at Unit A in turn 1 and then, when you are within assault range in turn 2, fire at unit B and aassault them. You have softened up unit A some so when they counter-assault you won't take as bad a hit. It's called tactics.

I have been playing this game since the rogue trader days and I've been playing orks since then. I made the err on the KMB because I do get confused with statistics. I'm fairly certain the KMB in previous editions was AP 1 - I'll have to dig out my older codex. But guess what, in my day of WH40K I had a giant foot template I could put on the table to stomp out marines. My original dread was a cardboard cut-out and my orks were all metal space pirates, of which I still have some! You had to make driving tests to make a greater than 45 degree turn in a vehicle and we had overwatch! I had Orks in power armor, Orks with Plasma Cannons and even orks with bolters. There have been many rules mutations over the years and yes occasionally I get confused as anyone who has seen so many editions would.

That said, I still like the KMB - they're still good for killin' termies.

That's a really bad comparsion comparing 3 big shootas with a single Loota. Of course they're going to wound more there's more guns! Do comparision with equal amounts so 3 big shootas and 3 Lootas then you'll see a difference. Sure the big shootas add up to a single Loota but don't forget 3 x 6 points for the Ork cost too

You shoot at a unit and assault it so they don't counter assault full stop! Also who says they're gonna charge as well?

Cool everyone makes mistakes but if you're preaching about this and that you should make sure you get the right info

**rutig3r**

@ 2000 Volts
I see you use a mix of shoota boyz and slugga boys, I am now thinking of doing the same, nothing concrete but just a thought.
What are your experiences with a single unit of sluggas amongst the shootas?

Anyone else?

**sn0zcumb3r**

In my 1800-2000 point list I run
25 sluggas plus nob
24 shootaz plus nob (mek goes here)
24 shootaz plus nob (2nd mek goes here)

This was mainly because I dont have enough shootaz for 3 squads but as it turned out I have never missed them so far. The extra attack has actually helped several times when attempting to glance a vehicle to death.

**mercer**

Shootas are far better than Sluggas. You've got the extra range and double S4 attacks. When charging into combat a Shoota Boy gets 3 attacks and a Slugga 4 so Shoota Boyz get that extra +1 S4 attack, also if you stay locked in combat that extra attack doesn't matter so much as you're now S3. Shootas for the win!