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Hey everyone,
Well i finallly just finished a Thousand Sons, and it reallly got me thinking about how far into chaos the thousands are. Are they unintentional servants of Tzeentch or are they actually warriors of the ruinous powers? Would ever be possible that the 1ksons are still loyal to the emperor?

Maybe. They were betrayed by the emperor, so I doubt they would become loyalists ever again...Not to mention they're all rubric marines, which makes them a little more than robots...

It would not be possible because unless I'm missing a reboot of their fluff their armor is filled with ashes and only serves as a conduit for the SM's soul.

Post Heresy? Not very likely they're loyal to The Emperor anymore... The whole destruction of Prospero thing probably cured them of that.

And, of course, that's really only relevant to those Thousand Sons who were not turned to dust by the Rubric of Ahriman. The rest of 'em probably don't spend a lot of time thinking about who they're fighting for...

Valete,

JohnS

They were backed into a corner and chose the last option they had for survival; after the destruction of their homeworld and being betrayed by the emperor (from their perspective) i doubt they harbor any feelings of loyalty to anything other than Tzeentch

That all depends on if Blood Ravens really are descended from 1k sons (which seems to be the case from my view).

The monstrous betrayal of the Emperor (and the Emperor's plans to use Magnus in the Golden Throne) mean the Thousand Sons are by this point wholly committed to the pursuit of knowledge and power as represented by Tzeentch.

The peculiar nature of Tzeentch means that they aren't really loyal to the Lord of Change (as the Lord of Change is loyal to no one), but everything in their nature drives them to exemplify his core obsessions. Ahriman refuses to accept Chaos as his master but empowers Tzeentch all the same as he lusts after infinite knowledge and power and his ambition and hope know no bounds. So he is extremely favoured by Tzeentch despite basically giving Tzeentch the finger. They both intend to use eachother for their own ends.

Melissia wrote:That all depends on if Blood Ravens really are descended from 1k sons (which seems to be the case from my view).

You beat me to it Melissia. I completely agree with your view on the Blood Ravens.

@OP, play Blood Ravens and say that they are former 1ksons (as it seems is the case anyway).

Similarities:

-Colours:
--Current Blood Ravens: Red and white
--Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons: Red with white markings.

-Psyker Abundunce.
--Blood Ravens: Lot's of Librarians (many more than most chapters)
--Thousand Sons: Lot's of Sorcerers

-Obsession with knowledge
--Blood Ravens: Deem knowledge sacred. Gaurd and retrive texts.
--Thousand Sons: Magnus hoarded texts, had libraries dedicated to keep texts about arcane lore and history. Ahirman's obsession with obtaining old books.

Now this could just be seen as heresy and speculation but the similiraties are enough that the Blood Raven's Geneseed could be from the Thousand Sons. There is more about the similarities between both chapters but I have only listed the major ones. I'm not saying it's definate but the similarities are great.

Yours

Gathering Storm

Well the Thousands according to some people are the good guys. But at my store. They are consider bad guys. See at my store there are no shades of gray. There is the imperium and the forces of disorder. In my mind that is bs. Because Alpha Legion could be considered a good guy but whatever. Off topic i'm ranting there. Sorry. Anyway.

The Thousands are split in half they are corrupted in some ways. But some of them are still not corrupted at all. Like the ones not affected by the rubric except Magnus as he has gone completely insane. Ahriman is still a good guy. He is just stuck between losing almost everyone he cared about. But the other Libarians of the sects maybe good guys. Like Amon and Uthlizzar (did he die?)

Its funny how the blood ravens are decendants of the sons , could this mean they would be corruptteded more easily ?

blood reaper wrote:Its funny how the blood ravens are decendants of the sons , could this mean they would be corruptteded more easily ?

possible

The Thousand Sons are pretty explicitly defined as Tzeentch-worshippers, so they're pretty damn corrupt. Magnus is a Dæmon Prince of Tzeentch and obeys Tzeentch's commands. While some people have claimed there is a prospect for their redemption, I don't see it myself.

=I= White-Wolf wrote:Hey everyone,
Well i finallly just finished a Thousand Sons, and it reallly got me thinking about how far into chaos the thousands are. Are they unintentional servants of Tzeentch or are they actually warriors of the ruinous powers? Would ever be possible that the 1ksons are still loyal to the emperor?

Good Question. But let me remined you that Magnus didnt want to join Tzeentch But he wanted to save his legion. As you also should remmember is that Ahriman said that not all of them excepted the mutation gifts which proves a sighn that they did not ]go too far. I think that perhaps not all have fallen deeply to chaos such as Ahriman and Magnus but most did. But I beleive that they are fighting more for survival and to have their revange on the treacherous Space Wolves and the flase Emperor.

I don't believe that there were enough Thousand sons left to create a chapter. When they were transported to the planet of the mages, there was a little more than a thousand of them left.

After the months on that planet, several hundred of them died from the flesh change, until ahriman used the rubric spell. All that was left was exactly a thousand marines (sorcerer's included). There's no way anyone could have left the planet, which implies that no one could create their own chapter!

I could be wrong though. Maybe there were other sons on a different planet that eventually just made their own chapter. I doubt they wouldn't have been destroyed by the inquisition though.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I don't believe that there were enough Thousand sons left to create a chapter. When they were transported to the planet of the mages, there was a little more than a thousand of them left.

After the months on that planet, several hundred of them died from the flesh change, until ahriman used the rubric spell. All that was left was exactly a thousand marines (sorcerer's included). There's no way anyone could have left the planet, which implies that no one could create their own chapter!

I could be wrong though. Maybe there were other sons on a different planet that eventually just made their own chapter. I doubt they wouldn't have been destroyed by the inquisition though.

Thousand sons still went on their own campaighns and crusades against Eldars and Imperium. Perhaps they met recruits on the way?

bob the heretic wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I don't believe that there were enough Thousand sons left to create a chapter. When they were transported to the planet of the mages, there was a little more than a thousand of them left.

After the months on that planet, several hundred of them died from the flesh change, until ahriman used the rubric spell. All that was left was exactly a thousand marines (sorcerer's included). There's no way anyone could have left the planet, which implies that no one could create their own chapter!

I could be wrong though. Maybe there were other sons on a different planet that eventually just made their own chapter. I doubt they wouldn't have been destroyed by the inquisition though.

Thousand sons still went on their own campaighns and crusades against Eldars and Imperium. Perhaps they met recruits on the way?

Well, they could, possibly, but their gene seed doesn't really exist any more, except in the sorcerers, but you wouldn't want those anyway.

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of rouge marines joining the sons, but the sons would have little use for them. They have hundreds of loyal "robots" at their disposal, why would they need recruits?

It's not totally impossible that the blood ravens are indeed a branch of the sons, but I sincerely doubt it, unless significant fluff is brought to the table. There's simply no way the imperium would allow traitors to rejoin their ranks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woah! Actually after reading the 'lex page about them, it sounds like they totally are related to the the sons in some way...Especially that bit about "the unknown primarch", which piqued my interest.

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of rouge marines joining the sons, but the sons would have little use for them. They have hundreds of loyal "robots" at their disposal, why would they need recruits?

It's not totally impossible that the blood ravens are indeed a branch of the sons, but I sincerely doubt it, unless significant fluff is brought to the table. There's simply no way the imperium would allow traitors to rejoin their ranks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woah! Actually after reading the 'lex page about them, it sounds like they totally are related to the the sons in some way...Especially that bit about "the unknown primarch", which piqued my interest.

Indeed you are rite in many ways but perhaps Ahriman or Magnus have created ways how to make more geneseeds or give them to new recruits. Maybe evenTzentch him self helped them. Also I think real Astrateses are better then machines. Besides how do the Thouasnad Sons launch there crusades if their is only sbout 1000 of them? They must have recruits I bet their are. I mean if I would be a Space Marine and I was strong with knowledge and I wanted more but the Imprium prohebitted for me to learn I would propobly join them.

Actually, as far as chaos marines go, the sons are rather inactive. They have nothing to do except follow ahriman around while he plunders the eldar for knowledge

Also, no. Rubric marines are far superior for all of the son's needs. The sorcerers essentially control the marines' every move. Actual astartes are too big of a risk. They might not obey the sorcerers, and they lack the ability to cast spells, which is useless.

And to your Gene-Seed comment. Never thought of it that way! It's certainly possible that they'd have ways of creating new gene seeds. Beyond that, it's possible they would no longer need gene seeds, and that sorcerers could possibly just transform people into marines.

Actually that would be dumb to just turn anyone into a marine, but yes, they could recruit regular humans with psychic potential, train them, and transform them into astartes.

Actually that would be dumb to just turn anyone into a marine, but yes, they could recruit regular humans with psychic potential, train them, and transform them into astartes

.....So we call it a draw?

Yes

Samus_aran115 wrote:Actually, as far as chaos marines go, the sons are rather inactive. They have nothing to do except follow ahriman around while he plunders the eldar for knowledge

Also, no. Rubric marines are far superior for all of the son's needs. The sorcerers essentially control the marines' every move. Actual astartes are too big of a risk. They might not obey the sorcerers, and they lack the ability to cast spells, which is useless.

And to your Gene-Seed comment. Never thought of it that way! It's certainly possible that they'd have ways of creating new gene seeds. Beyond that, it's possible they would no longer need gene seeds, and that sorcerers could possibly just transform people into marines.

Actually that would be dumb to just turn anyone into a marine, but yes, they could recruit regular humans with psychic potential, train them, and transform them into astartes.

All of which reminds more of some pretty good fan fic posted to the YahooGroups 40k-Chaos-list by Brad Hann several years ago... Apologies for the length, but I always thought it was a great bit o' writing for what it was... And, of course, if Brad wants it taken down, I'll do so immediately...

++++

Immortality.

Annicus stood naked in front of the Sorcerers, along with the eight
other remaining aspirants who had been selected from the massed ranks
of cultists on the Planet of the Sorcerers. This was the final test.
If he passed, he would become one with the Sorcerers of the Thousand
Sons, learning the ways of power. If he failed... well, nine thralls
remained of the scores who had been chosen. The rest were dead, and
Annicus knew that to be the standard price of failure.

Those who failed would never achieve Immortality.

He had withstood the agonising rituals which implanted the unholy
geneseed of the Thousand Sons within his body, and survived the years
of training which had claimed so many lesser men. Annicus felt
nothing but contempt for those who had failed. They obviously did not
believe in the power of Lord Tzeentch, and He had punished them
suitably. Their souls now writhed in eternal torment under His baleful stare.

Nine remained. Lord Tzeentch's sacred number. A good omen, Annicus
thought. They stood in a line in a great domed chamber. The Serpent
rune adorned the walls, and pink and blue fire blazed in great brass
braziers, casting flickering illumination through the hall. Inanimate
suits of baroque powered armour - the warrior class of the Thousand
Sons - stood at immobile attention, mindlessly awaiting the commands
of their masters. Those same masters, high ranking Sorcerers, stood
at strategic places around the chamber; their low chanting filling
Annicus' soul with delight and a little trepidation. Soon Annicus
would stand among them, destroying the servants of the False Emperor
with the power of his mind, uncovering the secrets of the universe.

Immortality was within his grasp.

The nine were called forth. Ornate suits of blue and yellow armour
lay before them. Unaided, the nine began to strap the armour over
their enhanced bodies. As each piece slid into place the locks which
held the suit together snapped shut, fusing the suit into a single
sheath; a second, toughened skin. Finally they were ready - clad neck
to toe in the armour, only their heads bare.

A sorcerer approached each one, and took the helmets within their
grasp. Slowly, reverently, the helmets were raised on high. Sorcerous
lightning flickered, and the chanting reached a crescendo. Then, to
the sound of a thunderclap, each helmet was lowered, slammed down
over the head of the aspirant.

Annicus gasped as the world changed. Through the helmet's eyes his
perception altered. The mundanity of the mortal world fell into dull
grey shadow, over-shadowed by the shifting swirls of astral energy
that permeated the atmosphere. Here and there was a flickering,
pulsing glow, and with a shocking insight Annicus realised that these
were the souls of those within this very room.

Immortality!

His mind floated freely, leaving the heaviness of his mortal shell
behind. Joyous, he tried to float through the hall, but was stopped
short by an invisible barrier. No, this was not the way it should
be... he tried again, moving in a different direction. Again he
struck the barrier. This was not right. Panic began to build, and he
tried to flee; but no matter which way he turned, he could not escape
the walls of his invisible cage. Lethargy seeped into his body; it
would no longer respond to his commands. It was almost as if there
was no physical shell remaining...

The suit that had once contained the body of Annicus - and now
carried but a handful of dust - stood at immobile attention, awaiting
the commands of its master. And within, the trapped soul of Annicus
gibbered and thrashed and pleaded for release from captivity.

Lord Tzeentch had granted him his wish.

++++

Again, NOT my writing. Just passing it on.

Valete,


JohnS

They're made of sand and dark magic. I don't think they're coming back.