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I might just be running way behind the times but what is the deal with everyone saying the IG wont be able to take Inquisitors or mistics or whatever? I mean its in the Deamon hunters and Withc hunters codecies, not to mention that it leaves IG without any psychic defenses (short of you know, killing the psykers)

apologies in advance if this is the wrong section for this type of question.

The inquisition is being redone (can't remember when the rumours said though, next year i think) and apparently there will no longer be the allies system if chaos daemons and CSM are anything to go by.

Besides mystics allow you to a have a free shoot at deepstriking bad guys within 4D6.

Lord Commander Phyrus wrote: (short of you know, killing the psykers)

Why not just shoot them then?

IG is about target priority so shoot the units which will hurt you most, in my experience pyskers don't turn up often enough for me to justify have to dedicate points to defend against them

If Inquisitors do return as a tabletop unit (all the rumours I've heard point to "Codex:Grey Knights" - so they may be a reduced choice) it's a fair bet that Mystics will be removed as a retinue option.

Any time that a unit is seen to be "overused" and "out of context" it gets removed or nerfed in the redux. It's not like they have a (dedicated) model for it (many =I= retinue members are 'flexible' that way) so they lose nothing in sales to removing the option.

I think that letting IG take inquisitors makes alot of sense, especialy since they can utilise half the IG anyways. I dont think mystics are overused/ out of context, in fact they are one of the saving graces of the DH retinues IMHO. It lets IG, who are notoriously bad in cc, a chance to nullify deepstrikers in such a way as you dont have to waste an entire turn of shooting or be butchered or deploy in such a way that your infantry is too spread-out to fire an effective volley.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Clarification: I hope the rummors are unfounded (though GK and SOB probably do need a new dex)

In other words you get to remove your down side (weakness in close combat) that you more than make up for by having extremely cheap, effective shooting options?

Nope, sorry. Not happening any longer when the new codexes are released. Allies was a ncie idea but the 5th ed codex has entirely thrown the balance out of whack.

even if they get rid of mystics, i think that Inquisitors should be available to IG armies, purely for fluff if nothing else, I would agree that GK should probably be by itself but inquisitors regularly requesition the guard because the GK arent available.

and on a side note, GW sales of inquisition modles would go down since about half of the people who buy them are guard players needing psychic/ DS defences

Yep, gotta agree with that last comment. If they look at it purely from a sales perspective, it would be idiocy to remove allies. I know very few players that play pure DH/WH armies, but know many that run DH/WH with allied/inducted units or that run imperial armies with allied DH/WH. Both GK and SoB will require a major rewrite to be able to function effeectively (IMO) as stand-alone armies. And there's no way that any sort of pure inquisitional force can do so, again IMO.

And I know more players that play purist Sisters and/or Grey Knights lists than use mystics... most (95%) Guard players I know and know of don't use them AFAIK.

Personally, I'm fine with it, and I'm fine with removing the Inquisition from the game period. It's not the best solution, but I wouldn't shed any tears over them after they were forced into my third edition Sisters codex, copy-pasted from friggin' DH codex to advertise for the Inquisitor roleplaying game. Though it'd be best if the Inquisition got its own codex separate from everything else, which is indeed what the rumors suggest (at least a supplement).

Guess it all depends on the local meta-game.

I'm also talking about online as well. It seems to be limited to a few desperate wannabe powergamers who can't actually use the Guard codex for the powerhouse it is.

Melissia wrote:I'm also talking about online as well. It seems to be limited to a few desperate wannabe powergamers who can't actually use the Guard codex for the powerhouse it is.

First time I have to agree with Melissia 100%
IG just won our local tournament, with 10 Chimeras filled with troops!

Kroothawk, I never said that all IG take allies or that they were necessary for IG to be competitive. So not sure what that had to do with the discussion. What I said was that if the allies rule is removed, they'll lose sales.

Melissia, I disagree, but maybe I don't browse WH/DH threads enough. And using allies does not make one a "desperate wannabe powergamers"...............

No it doesn't, and I never said that now did I?

Sure seemed like it. Maybe I misunderstood this phrase.

"It seems to be limited to a few desperate wannabe powergamers who can't actually use the Guard codex for the powerhouse it is. "

I was assuming "it" was using WH/DH allies in an IG army?

Thread's Subject wrote:IG using inquisitors and mystics

*clears throat*

Ahhh, so it's only the Inq/Mystic combo that you object to, not allies in general?

I don't object to it, it doesn't exactly effect me regardless (I don't use any form of deep striking in any of my armies right now). I was merely commenting on the fact that only a tiny number of IG players actually use Inquisitor+Mystics. And those that do tend to be wannabe powergamers.

Hi everyone, I'm a wannabe powergamer...............

No, but you are logically fallacious.

Also, reference on only 5% of players use inq+mystics... whats that? oh you just pulled that number out of thin air? lol.

Yes and no. I was relating to my personal experiences IRL and when reading IG lists online.

don_mondo wrote:Hi everyone, I'm a wannabe powergamer...............

Enjoy the few months, that the last 3rd edition Codices are still legal and can be used by wannabe powergamers who don't care about the armies within and just want to exploit a not-yet closed loophole.

Well maby they'll be like the Assasins and become indipendent (in a supliment or White Dwarf release meby). if we're realistic the only pure inquisition units in either DH or WH codicies are the inquisitors themselves, Assasins and debatably inquisitorial storm troopers. not realy enough to make a new codex out of. I just think that you can't restrict inquisitors to their own codex since that will lose GW heaps of people (not a great percentage of total gaming comunity) who buy inquisitors to have a "fluffy" army or who run narrative campaigns and such.

Kroothawk wrote:

don_mondo wrote:Hi everyone, I'm a wannabe powergamer...............

Enjoy the few months, that the last 3rd edition Codices are still legal and can be used by wannabe powergamers who don't care about the armies within and just want to exploit a not-yet closed loophole.

Heehehe, I will. Course, I ran my probable changes to my IG after no allies takes effect by some of the other members of our club. They all suggested I just keep the allies...........................

Anyone know of a 10-step program I can enroll in when this happens, help me over my addiction?

Yea, iits pretty obvious mystics are gettin the axe, but i just hope they leave in the ability to ally imperial assassins. I love taking callidus assassin in my ig, her neural shredder IDng pretty much anything not eternal warrior after psyker battle squad smacks em to LD2, and the redeploying one enemy unit before the game starts. I love pulling that vehicle out from behind that los blocking terrain and lighting it up when they thought it was safe.

I could care less about Mystics, I added the Inquisitor for the LD 10 Psychic Hood waaaaay back when. But since I am taking the Inq and he has a mandatory retinue, I figured I maight as well make him useful but as cheaply as possible. That meant Mystics. And yeah, I love my Callidus, even without the PBS.

But Mel, just so you don't think I'm too hopeless a cause, know that my Sisters army (still a WIP) is pure Sisters.

nosferatu1001 wrote:In other words you get to remove your down side (weakness in close combat) that you more than make up for by having extremely cheap, effective shooting options?

Nope, sorry. Not happening any longer when the new codexes are released. Allies was a ncie idea but the 5th ed codex has entirely thrown the balance out of whack.

So mystics completely overcome the IG's weakness in close combat? Hyperbole much?

In my experience people fail to consider fire arcs when deep striking. Yeah, those mystics may be shielding those artillery tanks, but considering they can't pivot to fire at you, deep striking out of lanes of fire isn't enormously difficult. It's almost like that Picard maneuver! I guess it DOES beat everything the Imperium can dish out after all.

In the vast majority of games, mystics do absolutely nothing except provide ablative wounds for the Inquisitor.

don_mondo wrote:I could care less about Mystics, I added the Inquisitor for the LD 10 Psychic Hood waaaaay back when. But since I am taking the Inq and he has a mandatory retinue, I figured I maight as well make him useful but as cheaply as possible. That meant Mystics. And yeah, I love my Callidus, even without the PBS.

This is my primary use for the Inquisitor as well. Powers are getting more and more prominent (and it seems all I play lately is Wolves, Angels, Eldar and other IG), so some sort of psychic defense is pretty important. But don't worry, even if the Grey Knight codex eliminates Inquisitors, the Witch Hunters codex won't be updated for a good long while, and that Inquisitor can take psychic hoods and give access to assassins. Hell, they even have some half-decent psychic powers (albeit expensive ones) to stack with Psychic Battle Squads.

Yep, I've actually used the WH Inq Lord on occasion. Couple of fun anti-psyker items in there. And I've actually caused wounds with the WH power that causes d6 psykers to pass a LD test or take a Perils hit.

Terminus wrote:
In my experience people fail to consider fire arcs when deep striking. Yeah, those mystics may be shielding those artillery tanks, but considering they can't pivot to fire at you, deep striking out of lanes of fire isn't enormously difficult. It's almost like that Picard maneuver! I guess it DOES beat everything the Imperium can dish out after all.

In the vast majority of games, mystics do absolutely nothing except provide ablative wounds for the Inquisitor.

The ig players you face should be using turret mounted things to take the free shots, like a LRBT, can fire 360 degrees, so facing isnt a issue.