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Lords (16.8%)
Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch (L4), Disc, Blood of Tzeentch, 4+ Ward Item, Enchanted Shield, Roar @ 420

Heroes (15.6%)
Battle Standard Bearer of Tzeentch, Chaos Steed, Halberd, 5+ Ward Item, Dragonhelm @ 205

Shadow Sorcerer (L2), Chaos Steed, Power Familiar, Ignore First Hit Shield, Warmachine Save, Screaming Blade @ 181

Core (27%)
18 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch, Shields, Full Command, Rapturous Standard @ 358

30 Chaos Maruaders of Khorne, Great Weapons, Full Command @ 200

15 Chaos Marauders of Khorne, Flails, Musician @ 109

3 x 5 Warhounds @ 90

Special (29%)
6 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch, Full Command, Banner of Rage @ 345

1 Chariot of Khorne @ 150

3 Dragon Ogres with Great Weapons @ 231

Rare (8.2%)
1 Hellcannon @ 205



The idea is that the Wizard joins the Warriors granting fear and the 5+ Ward Save against Warmachines. Although he's Cavalry, the shield is to protect him from the first Warmachine that hits. The reason he's cavalry is that he can sometimes swap places with the BSB if the need arises, or even the Level 4 (I think Discs are still classed as Cavalry).

The default Shadow spell is useful for reducing ranged attacks coming in, and in combat can drop a unit's WS so the Marauders might get to hit on 3s (or the Warriors for high WS opponents). Any other shadow spell would be a bonus, reducing T or S would be great against the direct damage from the other sources; ironically the least useful spells to roll are the top ones, which are really offensive.

The BSB is mainly to stay alive, but can hold his own in most challenges. I'm wary of not giving him a magic weapon as he used the sword of might in 7th, but the time it would have been needed (ethereal units, Dryads etc) never really turned up. The Dragon Helm will be useful for the improved save (as he can't use the shield) and when in combat with a guy with flaming attacks; he goes with the knights generally but is ready to swap with the mounted wizard if it comes to it.

General is a reasonable typical L4 build, with the 3+ ward overall and Blood of Tzeentch to shape the magic phase (still considering the puppet, but this is prevention rather than an insurance policy where I would still pay the excess)

The Warriors are the main anvil block, the Marauders are to smash face, the Knights and Dragon Ogres support those units. Hellcannon and Dogs do their typical roles.

Any suggestions?

whats the purpose of the 3x5 warhounds??? they dont march block (ld test to ignore) they dont break ranks ( 1 casualty on a t3 no save unit) uhm... basically they just are waiting to die?

if they were a single unit of 15 at least they might live long enough to break a rank.

Basically to get in the way. I never used them to break ranks or march-block back in 7th ed anyway. I'm thinking of dropping them down to 2 x 5 though.

Another thing I realised is the Shadow Wizard is illegal. WoC can't take Shadows on hero levels so that's out.

How would a good Fire or Death sorcerer work though?

Daba wrote:General is a reasonable typical L4 build, with the 3+ ward overall and Blood of Tzeentch to shape the magic phase (still considering the puppet, but this is prevention rather than an insurance policy where I would still pay the excess)

You know, I think I'll give Blood a run next couple games, instead of Puppet. Since Blood wasn't FAQ'd and can in fact avoid IF results, it does seem pretty useful at just avoiding any of the crappy new miscast table ... And I don't know, the idea of puppeting the other dude's result on that brutal table seems pretty unfair for just 35 points

As to the list, looks like you've got the tools. The warhounds I too wonder what you'll actually be using for in game, but as my skaven found out a unit of 5 puppies can in fact take down artillery

- Salvage

Yeah, I'm taking the blood for a trial run as I used puppet all of 7th.

Now, I'm not sure what I want to build with my 3rd character.

Is the power familiar dice only for the Wizard who has it? The problem if that is the case, with Fire and Death it'll be wasted if I have all short range spells in Death and wasted in combat if I only get Magic Missiles for Fire (though I guess I can bail out of the unit).

Noob question here, but can you explain the Battle Standard Bearer of Tzeetch? He's not carrying a magical banner, so what is his purpose?

Math on the him seems off as well. 210 points with Mark of Tzeetch.

The BSB allows you to re-roll any failed leadership tests for your units within 12" of him.

I replaced the mage with simply a Death wizard with power familiar, enchanted shield and warmachine jink save. I moved the Enchanted shield off the Lord and replaced that with the charmed shield.

I played a smaller game (2250) with a variant (removed the chariot and some guys and upgrades from the units).

It was against Ogres, who are much nastier than before. Got Doom and Darkness with my L2, which was dispelled each turn but on his Lord's unit could have caused a lot of trouble along with the Hellcannon.

I'm considering going back to Infernal Puppet. I'm likely to only throw a lot of dice on a big spell, and my L4 is less afraid of the S10 hits (actually in come cases will welcome the template ones if near enemies, though not 2-4 obviously); An IF is useful and if I use Gateway last, losing the D6 power dice is less of a big deal if I used them all up anyway.

Ogre Kingdoms are scary in 8th! Their units were murder if they made it into combat in 7th, but now...!

I like the feel of the list, a nice balance of things. I also just discovered it after clicking on your "threads started" after reading your wonderful dragon ogre conversion again

How much of this army is finished, out of curiosity? Also, I had no idea a level 1/2 sorcerer could only take death, fire, or a chaos lore... that's good to know!

You're not including Necrotic Phylactery in there somewhere? It seems to be a really good buy for the points for what it does! Protects against any of the lore of death "snipe" spells, and any characteristic checks, or even a backfired purple sun if it's on a caster . Good for the BSB, too...

I'm curious if people will take fewer characters now and just load up on larger units. But yours do seem effective- although I'd be worried about their base size being different from the unit, despite the shield. I didn't quite get the reasoning on keeping the sorcerer mounted (unless it's for looks!) or the BSB if he's going in one of the foot units. Also, the level 4 seems like he'll attract a lot of firepower (shooting or magical) his way... maybe that's worth it, but I feel like he needs some friends to hide with! Wouldn't one cannon shot be pretty likely to take him down as-is?

I ended up running the Wizard on foot, so everyone was in a unit that had LO,S in the end as using the lore of Deth meant I didn't need same unit types as I have no swap effect.

I recently tried a variant with two knight units, and instead of the level two I ran an exalted with the book and lore of shadows in that unit. It can be quite effective, as reducing a unit to WS0 can be handy and he can fight reasonably with a flail or halberd.