Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

I have heard everyone say that you can pre-measure everything in 8th ed, from Gamesworkshop employees, to people pod casting reviews of the book, etc.

The other day I got my copy of the book and read the rules for "Measuring Distances" on P.6 and from what I can tell it seems that pre-measuring is only done "...before you declare an action, such as charging or shooting".

It seems to me that you can measure anything you want to do but only when you need to do it (ie: you can measure 10" movement in your movement phase, but you cant measure 10" movement and then 12" range for your weapon in your movement phase to make sure your 10" will get you in range with your missile weapon) and also you cant just wilily nilly measure stuff on the board as you wish (enemy units shooting range from your units, enemy units charge ranges, etc)

Is my interpretation correct? have I just been listening to people that are being a little over zealous with the whole pre-measure thing? How do you all play it?

Thanks.

The rules effectively mean you can measure anything at any time.

You could choose to declare a charge at any unit on the table, choose to move to any spot on the table and then premeasure it.

Choose to cast at any target on the table, shoot... etc.

You are then allowed to not declare to do something.

Thanks for the reply.

The rules effectively mean you can measure anything at any time.

The only problem here is the way the rule is stated, you can only measure something when you want to do it. You cant shoot, charge, cast magic when you like, only in set phases so I don't see how this allows you to measure at any time.

You could choose to declare a charge at any unit on the table, choose to move to any spot on the table and then pre-measure it.

Choose to cast at any target on the table, shoot... etc.

You are then allowed to not declare to do something.

Doesn't this seem a little bit of an abuse of the rules? like over/under guessing cannon ranges in 7th and generally frowned upon? You opponent saying that he wants to shoot at the warmachine in your deployment zone with his pistol in turn 1.

It just doesnt seem to be the intention of the rule.

Has a Developer or something talked about the pre-measuring thing and how it is suppoed to work? I mean if they wanted you to be able to measure anything at any time why would they have not just stated it in the rules.

What do you imagine the point of checking a distance before declaring an action to be, if not to give a person the chance to change their mind or do something else if the distance is wrong?

If people have been maybe a bit overzealous about pre-measuring things that they really don't absolutely need to know, then maybe you should just try to relax a bit.

That is exactly the point: you CAN premeasure anything and everything *before* you commit to an action (otherwise it is exactly the same as post measuring...)

It is so far definitely not frowned upon, just fantasy finally growing up and realising that the ability to eyeball in 6" increments isnt the most brilliant "skill" to have in a wargame...

What do you imagine the point of checking a distance before declaring an action to be, if not to give a person the chance to change their mind or do something else if the distance is wrong?

Thats exactly what I think its for, I want to shoot my xbows so I check what is in range of them so I can make a decision before declaring exactly what they are shooting at. Thats not what I am talking about... I am talking about people saying that you can just measure anything you want at any time... go back and re-read my post.

As an example let say you have a unit of pistoleers from my understanding I don't think the rules let you measure their 16" move then from that point measure their 12" pistol range to see if you can hit their warmachine if you moved your full 16" in the movement phase, or doing things like measuring two turns ahead to work out where your knights can end up, or even measuring all the enemies range units so you can keep your unit ouf scouts out of all their ranges while you are moving them.

This is the sort of stuff people are telling me you can do in the new rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if thats the new rule and how it works, but from my reading it doesn't sound like this is the way the rule is.

If people have been maybe a bit overzealous about pre-measuring things that they really don't absolutely need to know, then maybe you should just try to relax a bit.

I meant over zealous / enthusiastic about the interpretation of the rule, someone can spend all day measuring stuff if they like... as long as its allowed by the rules... and this is my point of contention.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

That is exactly the point: you CAN premeasure anything and everything *before* you commit to an action (otherwise it is exactly the same as post measuring...)

And thats what everyone has been telling me, but looking at the rule it says "You can always measure the distance before you declare an action such as charging or shooting" then goes on to say "This allows you to check whether units are in range of their target before they launch an attack"

which is fine, but that doesn't imply that you can measure anything you want whenever you want, it implies you can check the ranges of things (charge, shooting, etc) you want to do before you need to do them.

Except you cannot check the range of a charge, you can only cjeck the *maximum* range of a charge.

PLus the rules only say "you can measure the distance" - but what do they mean by this? You can measure ANY distance and call it "the" distance if you like.

PLus the rules only say "you can measure the distance" - but what do they mean by this? You can measure ANY distance and call it "the" distance if you like.

While this is true, the sentence seems to imply the distance of the action you are about to do.

So I take it that most people use the measure anything at anytime interpretation of the rule?

I have played games with both interpretations and they both play very different.

I am just wondering what the intent of the rule is, anyone have any sort of interview, podcast, etc where a developer is talking about the new measurement system?

nosferatu1001 wrote:That is exactly the point: you CAN premeasure anything and everything *before* you commit to an action (otherwise it is exactly the same as post measuring...)

It is so far definitely not frowned upon, just fantasy finally growing up and realising that the ability to eyeball in 6" increments isnt the most brilliant "skill" to have in a wargame...

Agree with this 100%, people that saying guessing range is "skill" are just elitist. The only thing guess ranging did was deter new players from the game.

In 7th the most i was ever off when guessing war machines was like an inch... maybe... It deters new players from playing the armies they want because of the prospect of having to deal with that phase of the game.

Morespam - however it actually *states* something quite different: if you want to measure a distance, before deciding upon an action, you CAN do so. It then gives an example (essentially, despite not using the term "example" it functions as one) where you measure something directly relevant to that action, but this does not mean this is the ONLY measurement you can take.

So you CAN measure "the" distance, with "the" being left to your determination; in other words blanket permission to measure anthing at any time.

Shivan - all the way up to 8th I was saying this! Guess range was removed *2* editions ago in 40k, and for that reason - after a few weeks of play you can guess, accurately, to within an inch everytime. It is not a skill that makes the game more tactically interesting, but does put off newbies who find their artillery completely useless for 10 games.

Finally Fantasy has grown up and realised that making the game less chess like is a GOOD thing (removal of perfect knowledge of charge range) for a war game, and removal of barriers to entry (guess ranges, et al) is also a good thing logevity wise.

I have never, ever, had such enjoyable games of fantasy as I have with 8th. More fun than 6th and 7th combined, without being hero hammer 5th (which i admittedly only witnessed from the sidelines, but still...) rediculousness.

Yeah i hated variable charge ranges with a passion when i first saw them, then i played a few games and think its one of the best new rules.

No more playing the stupid shuffle trying to inch to where charge range is a maybe then playing see who has the guts to see if its in range first. OR completely crippling an army (like dwarves) by moving to just outside the charge, guaranteeing you get it.

Yep, it removes strategy (I know you cannot charge me) and replaces it with tactics (i have X% chance of you charging me) - and anything that increases tactics is a GOOD thing. Plus its waaay more "accurate" than fixed, known distances.

It also makes items such as Huanchi that much more valuable, and with cavalry only fleeing 3D6 pick the highest Jaguar standard is now GOLDEN on templeguard / saurus warriors....

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yep, it removes strategy (I know you cannot charge me) and replaces it with tactics (i have X% chance of you charging me) - and anything that increases tactics is a GOOD thing. Plus its waaay more "accurate" than fixed, known distances.

It also makes items such as Huanchi that much more valuable, and with cavalry only fleeing 3D6 pick the highest Jaguar standard is now GOLDEN on templeguard / saurus warriors....

I am fail. You are god.

BRB Swiftstride pg 76 states: 3d6 discard lowest dice.

Epicwargamer wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yep, it removes strategy (I know you cannot charge me) and replaces it with tactics (i have X% chance of you charging me) - and anything that increases tactics is a GOOD thing. Plus its waaay more "accurate" than fixed, known distances.

It also makes items such as Huanchi that much more valuable, and with cavalry only fleeing 3D6 pick the highest Jaguar standard is now GOLDEN on templeguard / saurus warriors....

Do you have a rulebook? Im sorry but you seem to be getting a lot of things wrong.

BRB Swiftstride pg 76 states: 3d6 discard lowest and ADD MOVEMENT VALUE. +7 or 8!

Not when you flee...

then its just 3d6 drop lowest. At least thats what it says in the reference stuff at the back.