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I'm looking to start a CSM army. I've had a Necron army for about a year now, and while it's fun, it regularly gets stomped, and I'm finding it's slowness and inability to CC unsatisfying.

I like the look of CSM, and I like 'evil' armies. I believe I'll start out with a Slaanesh army, since I like the fluff and the models.

Here's my tentative list:

HQ
Daemon Prince w/ wings, mark of Slaanesh, lash of submission.
155

Troops
10 noise marines with champion w/ power weapon, doom siren, personal icon, 9 sonic blasters, with rhino transport.
330

10 chaos marines with champion with power weapon, plasma pistol. Icon of Slaanesh, one marine w/ flamer, with rhino transport.
255

Elite

7 Terminators, Icon of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon, 2 pairs of lightning claws, chainfist.
285

Fast Attack

8 raptors, champion with lightning claws.
200

Heavy Support

Defiler with heavy flamer and TL-lascannon
170

Demons
8 lesser demons
104

Total: 1499 points

This army doesn't have a lot of armor-piercing firepower (to say the least), but it should be tough in melee. Between my Lash and everyone besides the defiler moving quickly (terminators and demons deep-striking) I hope to be able to position my army for maximum success. I'll have a tough time with landraiders, but I've found if you ignore a landraider and focus on the rest of the army, they're not too much of a problem, and I should be able to handle whatever pops out of them.

Looking at it now, I should probable free up 20 points and give the noise marines rhino demonic possession.

yes firepower is an issue. also, you might get shot up badly. with such expensivemodels, large blasts are problems.looks good in CC tho, but i would beef up my gunz a bit

throw in either a lascannon predator or some obilterators and youre good to go.... for now.

You should run dual Daemon Princes for target saturation and dual threat

Why only a single flamer when you can have 2 per 10 men? I'd get a power fist too.

Chaos Terminators should ditch the reaper as they'll teleport in close to the enemy and don't need range. Stack up on combi weapons.

Raptors should be in squads of 5 with meltagun and chaos icon so they can alpha strike a target but stick around if they take the pain.

Defiler is a big target, switch for another Daemon Prince.

My thoughts:

HQ:
Run 2 DP and do dual lash, it's just better

HVY:
Take 2 2x Oblit squads, it's 300 points and gives a lot of firepower to a list that lacks it. Defilers are too big and easily killable.

ELT:
Add a 5 man chosen squad have them outflank and give them 4xmelta/plasma/flamer whatever you want

TRP:
9hamps get PF and take plasma/melta/flamer whatever cobo you like

TRANSPORT:
Always pay for the dem pos

FAST:
I believe chosen are better than raptors and fast attack choices for CSM aren't the best option, but if you must 5 man squads w/ meltas

But it's your army, and if you want to have fun play what you like!

So, I'm actually starting to get models, scouring for them on the cheap.
That and your suggestions have changed the list to the following:

HQ:
Daemon Prince, wings, MoS, Lash, 155
Chaos Lord, MoS, Daemon Weapon, 135

10 x noise marines, champ, doom siren, blastmaster, 8 sonic blasters
+ Rhino w/ extra armor, 360

9 Chaos marines, champ, power fist, flamer, Slaanesh icon 200

8 raptors, champ, power weapon, 2x melta guns, 210

1 Landraider with demonic possession, 240

6 havocs, 2x lascannons, 2x autocannons 200

Total: 1500


It's now a good mix of shooty and melee. And it definitely doesn't lack for tank-busting

Daemon Prince, leaps forwards, tries to bust heads/tanks. Causes disorder/moves opponents into range with lash.

Chaos lord and marines mounted in landraider move forward, trying to get in assault range, (where they should stomp most enemies) and maybe pop a rhino with the lascannons.

Noise marines are anti-infantry. move up 12 in rhino and dismount, next turn rhino moves and they unload in heavy mode. Not too shabby in an assault, either.

Raptors are mobile utility men, capable of popping tanks or termies, or holding their own in combat.

Havoks are tank killers.


I really like this army... but it's small!

Still no dual Princes so the single one will be gunned down easy.

Raptors should be in units of 8 with two meltas and a chaos icon.

What's the Land Raider for?

Why lascannons and autocannons for? Lascannons will pop most armour but autocannons will struggle. Don't mix weapon load outs which have different roles.

And yes it still does lack tank busting, 2 meltas and 2 lascannons are not tank busting.

I'm pretty sure there's a echo in here.....

The Land raider is to deliver my Chaos Lord into cc. Also, I just got one on the cheap.

As to tank-busting, don't autocannons rend?

I should probably drop the power sword champion from the raptors, and add either a Khorne or Slaanesh icon...

Personally, I'd use 7 terminator with MOS and double lightning claws. That extra initiative can wreck Meqs, and most other things.

I might suggest dumping the Lesser daemons for something else, like another troops choice.

8 raptors is too many, IMO. I'd go down to a minimum of 5 with MOS, then you can have more points for that other troops choice I was talking about,

You need Power Fists in your squads. If you get into hth with Dreads you are done.

Autocannons dont rend, SM Assualt Cannons do.

Your list is just ok to me, so is the slaanesh,in game, but ill try to work around it.

2x Daemon Prince-lash, wings 310
3 Terminators- 3xcombi-meltas(termicide) 105
3x 9 Noise marines- 8 sonic blasters,champ w/ PW 750
3x Rhinos 105
3 Oblits- 225
Total 1495 do what you want with the extra points.

This should in my opinion work out better than the other list. But if you really want to be more successful with your game drop the noise marines and go for IoCG CSM with 2x melta and a fist champ for your troops, it would save you lots of points and that would get you another oblit or something else that would help the main problem with this list, AT. Tell me what you think! Rod.

Slannish is way weak in close combat the best CC units are Khorne, try 2 predators with twin auto cannon turret and las cannon sponsons, drop the lesser deamons as they are bullet bait, buy the greater deamon w/ deamon weapon and icon of Knorne for the combat bonus, 5 man havoc squads work, 5 man termie squads with 1 hvy flamer, combi weapons & chain fists, Defilers are ok but do attract fire try land raider as rhino's tend to blow up to easy with a standard 10 man chaos space marine unit armed with 2 flamers, bolters, bolt pistol, close combat weaponfor 2 att per marine. icon of Khorne +1 att, champion of Khorne w/ Mark of Khorne +1 att w/ power fist chain sword, no plasma weapons they tend to get hot and blow up, noise marines are just Slan fluff try Khorne bezerkers way better (I got the KISS band figs for my Noise Marines), thats what I would do.

I don't mind sticking with an "underpowered" (pronounced Slaneesh) army for the sake of flavor, but I find one thing shockingly glaring. You've only two troop choices in 1500 pts. I'd be trying to crunch out a way to double that if at all possible. Squads of 6 CSM with IoS and PW thown in a Rhino are damnably cheap. PLUS they fit the fluff.

I am really not a fan of the Chaos Lord. Strategically there are three reasons I use to decide if I want to take a unit. 1) They cover a weakness or gap, such as anti-armor, anti-personnel, anti-swarm, flank, etc. Chaos Lord is not really strong in any of those areas. The Daemon Weapon means you want him to go cc but without Termie armor he's gonna die pretty fast. Daemon weapons are... problematic. I don't mind random effexts but they are not really so hot. Which leads to...

2) They get good bang for their buck. I cannot for the life of me get the Lord to earn his points. Those termie death squads (3-models with combi-___ variants) work great as an example of point-efficiency, even though I don't use them. If a model NEVER earns its own point value I won't use it. I love fluff, but I hate losing all the time.

3) They force your opponent to change his course of action. The best players make a plan and stick to it, only making MINOR alterations. When a daemon prince deep strikes into the back of your army, you have to make MAJOR changes. All of the sudden you are focusing fire or moving your nearby pieces in reaction, rather than keeping the initiative. I was losing horribly to an IG army when my DP came in by my opponent's basilisks. Because of this one model my opponent basically gave up his shooting (between moving ordenance pieces or missing with his other guns) phase for an entire turn. I react to a vanilla Chaos Lord the same was I would react to an Aspiring Champion: Charge him so I have more attacks (with Berzerkers if possible).

I don't think the Chaos Lord meets any of my criteria. There is a case to be made for sorcerers, but Lords 1)Aren't the best at any one thing; 2) don't earn their points back; 3) are not imposing. And they cannot even hold an objective. Great, now I have a fourth criteria.

dougtulane wrote:

As to tank-busting, don't autocannons rend?

No they don't mate. You are thinking of assault cannons.