Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright. So, as we all know (or mostly know) the Alpha Legion may still be loyal. Apparently they're only turned to Chaos because it was the only way to make the Empire strong enough to survive, that the conflict would nearly gut it but that the Empire would rise strong enough to last forever afterwards.

The problem is...does Alpha Legion itself still know that? A lot of the leaders seem pretty heavily Chaotic now. They even have some Daemon Princes. If Alpha Legion is still loyal, how much of the Legion is still loyal? And how much of it now so corrupt from the turning that they're Chaos Marines through and through?

Alpha Legion help destroy 3 Legions. There's no coming back from that. All the traitors had their reasons but traitors is traitors.

Uhh. Ignorant much? Let us not forget that each alpha legionarie can kick alot of ass. For example if their Champion die they won't be like "ahh man our champion died *cries*" no they would be like "Ahh our champion died... YEAH PROMOTION!"
Alpha Legion is pretty secertive sorta like CIA, they might have connections to the Inqustion.

Asherian Command wrote:Uhh. Ignorant much? Let us not forget that each alpha legionarie can kick alot of ass. For example if their Champion die they won't be like "ahh man our champion died *cries*" no they would be like "Ahh our champion died... YEAH PROMOTION!"
Alpha Legion is pretty secertive sorta like CIA, they might have connections to the Inqustion.

What the f*ck are talking about? That made no sense. Like you're having a conversation with yourself.

I agree i think it is alot like the night lord who scared to bring order but now scared for the heck of scaring if you know what i mean.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Uhh. Ignorant much? Let us not forget that each alpha legionarie can kick alot of ass. For example if their Champion die they won't be like "ahh man our champion died *cries*" no they would be like "Ahh our champion died... YEAH PROMOTION!"
Alpha Legion is pretty secertive sorta like CIA, they might have connections to the Inqustion.

What the f*ck are talking about? That made no sense. Like you're having a conversation with yourself.

What? sorry bad grammer. My fault just saying the Alpha Legion are like the CIA but have connections to the Inqusition in some way shape or form.

Asherian Command wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Uhh. Ignorant much? Let us not forget that each alpha legionarie can kick alot of ass. For example if their Champion die they won't be like "ahh man our champion died *cries*" no they would be like "Ahh our champion died... YEAH PROMOTION!"
Alpha Legion is pretty secertive sorta like CIA, they might have connections to the Inqustion.

What the f*ck are talking about? That made no sense. Like you're having a conversation with yourself.

What? sorry bad grammer. My fault just saying the Alpha Legion are like the CIA but have connections to the Inqusition in some way shape or form.

No, its not the grammer. You seem to be retorting a point that was never made. Something about a champion dieing or something.

No I just don't like the looks of black and white in the 40k universe. -.- When you said "All the traitors had their reasons but traitors is traitors. " I see them as a shade of gray that is it Just voicing my opinion that's why this thread was made voices of opinion. Plus the Joke was about alpha Legionire Promotions. And that they have to kill someone to achieve rank. Hence why i kinda think they are evil.

Asherian Command wrote:No I just don't like the looks of black and white in the 40k universe. -.- When you said "All the traitors had their reasons but traitors is traitors. " I see them as a shade of gray that is it Just voicing my opinion that's why this thread was made voices of opinion. Plus the Joke was about alpha Legionire Promotions. And that they have to kill someone to achieve rank. Hence why i kinda think they are evil.

You managed to make less sense there. Let's just move on....

They are not traitors.... But Just made a joke about the Alpha Legioniares promotion tactic.
Anyway back on topic. The Alpha Legion hides their mutations because they are ashamed of it. BUT! They are known for shouting "for the emperor!" which could mean they are good. But it could also mean they are confusing the imperial soldiers we have no idea of their motives. Its very hard to say if they are still good or if they are corrupted. DO NOT USE DOW AS AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE RELIC MADE IT AND FORGOT WHAT THE ALPHA LEGION IS KNOWN FOR! and also Because I hate the lore of the alpha legion in the DOW series because they didn't really act like Alpha Legionires so they do not count for this conversation..

*Spoilers from Legion*







Well, if youve read legion, its not so much humanity that theyre loyal to, its life in general. Part of the plot they entered into results in the death of the human species, so that all other life can survive.

Sorry i haven't read legion but i have read Index Astartes and alot about all the Legions.

Asherian Command wrote:They are not traitors.... But Just made a joke about the Alpha Legioniares promotion tactic.
Anyway back on topic. The Alpha Legion hides their mutations because they are ashamed of it. BUT! They are known for shouting "for the emperor!" which could mean they are good. But it could also mean they are confusing the imperial soldiers we have no idea of their motives. Its very hard to say if they are still good or if they are corrupted. DO NOT USE DOW AS AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE RELIC MADE IT AND FORGOT WHAT THE ALPHA LEGION IS KNOWN FOR! and also Because I hate the lore of the alpha legion in the DOW series because they didn't really act like Alpha Legionires so they do not count for this conversation..

QFT

Alpha Legion would never assemble a large strike froce to claim something. They would instead pose as loyalists (non-mutated marines paint their armour to suit), let the loyalists do all the work then take the artefact, detonate the charges they would have planted on all of the loyalist ships (bar 1) then would high tail it off the planet. Open warfare is not the style of Alpha Legion. They prefer to use guerilla warfare, chaos cults as foot troops and infiltration. Alpha Legion is so secretive that their true allegiance is unknown but there are indications that many are still loyal. They are a shade of grey, they may seem to act as if they follow Chaos they are still following their plan to save The Galaxy (though not humanity) from The Ruinous Powers.

Plus it says in Index Astartes they chop off their mutations.
They abosuletely hate using chaos. But they do use psykers. Not only that but they hate using demons. And Sindria is not a Alpha Legionire. He would never become a demon. His attiutide was great. Using his men like pawns in that sense he is a alpha legionnaire

If you haven't read Legion this may not make sense.

The Alpha Legion were loyal. The Cabal shows them the future with Chaos winning as it slowly destoys the Imperium/galaxy. Alpharius and Omegon decided to accept this vision as truth. They also follow the suggested solution to align with Horus. This choice is based on the fact that if Horus wins Humanity and its rampant emotions are burned out quickly and the galaxy will recover. The powers of Chaos will decline.

However we know Horus has failed. Therefore according to the Cabal, Chaos is winning its slow burn victory. The Alpha Legion has failed also.

This leaves The Alpha Legion with a few choices.

Despair at their faliure. Fight for the sake of it continue to test and challenge yourself for martial pride.

Despair at their failure. Embrace the eighfold path of Chaos and fight for the dark gods and their favor. i.e Daemonhood.

Continue the fight against Chaos. Objective is now the Impossible task of destroying all humanity.

IMO The Alpha Legion with its secretive and cell like organisation would have differnet groups following different choices. Remeber Alpha Legion do not favor a central command and value initative. When you also consider the time delay effects of the Eye of Terror (which some groups of the Alpha Legion reside) and the nature of Chaos' seductive call (affecting some and not others) this allows you to field a force with practically any viewpoint. Chaos worshipping Alpha Legion, Martial Pride Alpha Legion, or Mission Impossible Alpha legion. Or whatever else you can think of.

Good. But i have to disagree. The imperium is not losing to chaos. They are actually winning.

Read.

'The Cabal shows them the future with Chaos winning as it slowly destoys the Imperium/galaxy. Alpharius and Omegon decided to accept this vision as truth.'

This is their belief. The Imperium also believes it is winning. Everyone other then Eldar believes they are ascendant.

Huh.

LEGION is complex, and quite confusing too.

And seriously, if you're reading this thread and you haven't read LEGION yet?

Er, tough?

So...

We do NOT know WHAT the Alpha Legion believes for sure, or WHY they are doing what they are doing.

I think that Alpharius and Omegon are doing what THEY think is best to save HUMANITY.

I think they are smart enough, talented enough, and arrogant enough to think that they can in fact achieve this goal, regardless of what they saw as the 'only' two choice presented by the Cabal.

I think they are deciding to pretend to join Horus in order to be a double agent in his midst.

Of course, we don't know for sure.

And we don't know what they are all about "now", in the 'present day' of 40K.

By their very nature, there are probably TWO "Alpha Legions", one for, and one against Chaos, 10,000 years after the fact...

I forgot to add that there is nothing loyal about the Alpha legion. They intended to destroy the Imperium to save the galaxy, such a concept is heretical, even in 30k.

If they are acting as a double agent without sanction from his Corpseyness then they are still traitors. And there is absolutely nothing that even hints that they attempted to harm Horus' forces or ruin his chances.

Shaman wrote:I forgot to add that there is nothing loyal about the Alpha legion. They intended to destroy the Imperium to save the galaxy, such a concept is heretical, even in 30k.

If they are acting as a double agent without sanction from his Corpseyness then they are still traitors. And there is absolutely nothing that even hints that they attempted to harm Horus' forces or ruin his chances.

Um, because we haven't got to that point yet?

And, are you sure you've actually read LEGION?

There is nothing 100% either way in there, either 'for' or 'against'.

It is up to Dan writing a sequel, which who know IF and/or WHEN that will be!

LEGION definitely put the Alpha Legion in the "Who Knows?" category, which is a lot different than the old Index Astartes article, which only cast doubt on whether or not Alpharius was still alive.

Personally, I believe that the Alpha Legion turned traitor for 'the greater good' as proposed by The Cabal, and that they are now - as Alpharius (MOD) said - almost two legions.

I personally think that most of the Legion still acts as they do to benefit the galaxy (as the Cabal intended, although it may be too later for their plan to work) but after having performed such heresy and spent so much time within the EOT, their motives are now being blurred. After-all, how long can something really reside in the EOT without going corrupt?

On the other hand, the 13th Company and The Eldar Craftworld (name escapes me atm, Purple/Black and home of Muegan Ra) have both spent huge amounts of time in the EOT and remain uncorrupted.

I agree with Alpharius (MOD), they are very much "who knows", no-one knows for sure so ultimately the OP's original question cannot be answered, simply speculated.

@ Shaman - They weren't supposed to damage Horus' forces from the inside (according to Cabal 'orders'), there is most likely still a lot loyal about the Alpha Legion, quite possibly their intentions above all else.

I'm really surprised that anyone thinks the Alpha Legion are working in the interests of the Cabal/Imperium/Humanity/Gods/Squats/Anyone. The Alpha Legion don't want anyone to know their names or where they live. They certainly don't want you having any say in what they do or what their priorities are. The Alpha Legion don't follow any agenda but their own (and they certainly won't let you know what that is).

Shaman wrote:The Alpha Legion were loyal.

Not exactly. They never had much enthusiasm for the Great Crusade, considering it to be ultimately misguided.

Shaman wrote:The Cabal shows them the future with Chaos winning as it slowly destoys the Imperium/galaxy.

True enough.

Shaman wrote:Alpharius and Omegon decided to accept this vision as truth.

There's absolutely no evidence for this. In fact, given the way that events turn out, it seems fairly unlikely.

Shaman wrote:They also follow the suggested solution to align with Horus.

They align with Horus for reasons unknown. The fact that humanity wasn't wiped out suggests that the Cabal 'solution' wasn't it.

Shaman wrote:This choice is based on the fact that if Horus wins Humanity and its rampant emotions are burned out quickly and the galaxy will recover.

Though the prophecy suggests humanity will not. Regardless, if the prophecy is accurate then the Alpha Legion didn't sign up to it and if they did then it isn't true.

Shaman wrote:However we know Horus has failed. Therefore according to the Cabal, Chaos is winning its slow burn victory. The Alpha Legion has failed also.

You're giving the Alpha Legion zero credit and assuming that they have no agenda of their own.

Shaman wrote:This leaves The Alpha Legion with a few choices.

This leaves the Alpha Legion as yet another bunch of gullible puppets who fell for yet another unconvincing trick. Fortunately it's extremely unlikely that any writer would buy into this possible version of events.

Shaman wrote:IMO The Alpha Legion with its secretive and cell like organisation would have differnet groups following different choices. Remeber Alpha Legion do not favor a central command and value initative. When you also consider the time delay effects of the Eye of Terror (which some groups of the Alpha Legion reside) and the nature of Chaos' seductive call (affecting some and not others) this allows you to field a force with practically any viewpoint. Chaos worshipping Alpha Legion, Martial Pride Alpha Legion, or Mission Impossible Alpha legion. Or whatever else you can think of.

This description sounds bland enough to belong in the 4th edition codex, but I think we can aspire to higher levels of fluff.

How about this?

The Alpha Legion value independence of action, abhor manipulation by others and their only agenda is to remain their own masters. The twin primarchs are not disloyal as such, and certainly respect their father as quite the embodiment of their ideals. They do not welcome their lack of independence however, and only reveal their presence late in the Great Crusade when they feel forced to. Even when they do, they reveal nothing about themselves, fiercely maintaining dominion over themselves. Hence the existence of two primarchs and location of their homeworld never becoming known. They feel it necessary to go along with the Great Crusade, both out of respect for their father and the pragmatic recognition that the Imperium, while perhaps misguided in its crusade, could not be opposed or hid from and must therefore be joined. And so we join them at the start of Legion, not disloyal but with significant resentment given their views on the Great Crusade and the fact that they are effectively under the thumb of the Imperium fighting a war they don't believe in, no longer their own masters.

And so when they hear of Horus' betrayal, and the potential fates of the galaxy Alpharius and Omegon are immediately interested, but for completely their own reasons. They have no interest whatsoever in merely switching masters from the Imperium to Horus/the Cabal/the Gods. That would be an anathema to them. What they see is an opportunity to use the upcoming heresy to free themselves of outside control, to pursue what was always their agenda. Whether or not the Cabal's prophecy was true or not was irrelevant. No doubt the Cabal would in the very near future be betrayed by a Legion that had already proved themselves capable of out-manipulating them. If the Alpha Legion believed the Cabal prophecies had something in them perhaps they took control of the key Cabal personel to use for their own ends. If not perhaps they were wiped out. That would certainly explain why the Cabal do not appear to be around anymore. The outcome sought by the Alpha Legion would be one in which neither Horus or the Emperor would be able to claim mastery over them. This may have been acheived using knowledge of the Cabal prophecy or purely through the Legions prodigious strategic manipulation.

And so the Alpha Legion played a significant role in ensuring Horus' rebellion dealt a mortal blow to the Imperium, leaving it in no state to hunt them down. They did not however fulfill the Cabal prophecy, not because they failed, but because they had no interest in seeing this outcome. The Alpha Legion would surely have no love for the gods given their desire for self-determination, but they wouldn't have been willing to destroy themselves (no humans = no Alpha Legion) on behalf of a shadowy cabal that had already tried to pull their strings. They could have undermined the prophecy (if it was even accurate) by providing as yet unknown support for the loyalists to prevent total victory for the traitors. And thus at the end of the heresy nobody is in any position to either hunt down or exert control over the Alpha Legion which remains deeply infiltrated in the now rotting Imperium protected by its numerous human agents. All is as it should be.

I much prefer such a Legion to another boring gang of puppets as your assumptions would necessitate.

Yeah, I'm mostly looking for people's speculation on whether the whole of Alpha Legion is still against Chaos and just pretending, even the more obviously corrupt members, whether only elements of the Legion still know there own plans and guide the rest or if Alpha Legion is now completely Chaos.

I know there's no difinitive answer, as with anything Games Workshop (except maybe Chaos Grey Knights...) but I have an interest in Alpha Legion, so I figured I'd see what folks think.

Just Dave wrote:Personally, I believe that the Alpha Legion turned traitor for 'the greater good' as proposed by The Cabal, and that they are now - as Alpharius (MOD) said - almost two legions.

I personally think that most of the Legion still acts as they do to benefit the galaxy (as the Cabal intended, although it may be too later for their plan to work) but after having performed such heresy and spent so much time within the EOT, their motives are now being blurred. After-all, how long can something really reside in the EOT without going corrupt?

On the other hand, the 13th Company and The Eldar Craftworld (name escapes me atm, Purple/Black and home of Muegan Ra) have both spent huge amounts of time in the EOT and remain uncorrupted.

I agree with Alpharius (MOD), they are very much "who knows", no-one knows for sure so ultimately the OP's original question cannot be answered, simply speculated.

@ Shaman - They weren't supposed to damage Horus' forces from the inside (according to Cabal 'orders'), there is most likely still a lot loyal about the Alpha Legion, quite possibly their intentions above all else.

An Omega Legion!?

I think the 'truth' is going to be that, after 10,000 years, they'll sort of be like the Night Lords - some 100% into Chaos, some not at all.

With the added twist that they are doing what they feel is best for "humanity", and not necessarily the Imperium.

Maybe.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Personally, I believe that the Alpha Legion turned traitor for 'the greater good' as proposed by The Cabal, and that they are now - as Alpharius (MOD) said - almost two legions.

I personally think that most of the Legion still acts as they do to benefit the galaxy (as the Cabal intended, although it may be too later for their plan to work) but after having performed such heresy and spent so much time within the EOT, their motives are now being blurred. After-all, how long can something really reside in the EOT without going corrupt?

On the other hand, the 13th Company and The Eldar Craftworld (name escapes me atm, Purple/Black and home of Muegan Ra) have both spent huge amounts of time in the EOT and remain uncorrupted.

I agree with Alpharius (MOD), they are very much "who knows", no-one knows for sure so ultimately the OP's original question cannot be answered, simply speculated.

@ Shaman - They weren't supposed to damage Horus' forces from the inside (according to Cabal 'orders'), there is most likely still a lot loyal about the Alpha Legion, quite possibly their intentions above all else.

An Omega Legion!?

Not quite, but'd make [some] sense...

Alpharius wrote:I think the 'truth' is going to be that, after 10,000 years, they'll sort of be like the Night Lords - some 100% into Chaos, some not at all.

With the added twist that they are doing what they feel is best for "humanity", and not necessarily the Imperium.

Maybe.

This. Very much this.